Do whales protect subs from helos?

[sep3]

Let me start by saying I don't like torping whales either. I really like whales. But in a war?

So, long story short, 5 warships including 1 aircraft carrier. But, this group is also mixed in with a pod of 4 blue whales. I *carefully* drive torps around the whales and into the 4 escorts, while the carrier runs away at high speed.

Having a little fun, I start launching TASMs at the carrier. There are 4 helos in the area, but so what. I'm ready to make a run for it. But, by this time, my sub is also moving in amongst the pod of whales.

All of the helos know where I am. They are dropping active sonobouys on me and dipping their little sonars near on both sides. They must see me and probably the 4 whales in close proximity. I'm still at 200 ft, 5 kt.

I never run. I wait for the helos to start dropping torp on me. But they never do. If they did, I know it would be a complete whale massacre. But they are buzzing around me like a swarm of angry bees.

But still, they don't drop on me. So, I continue firing TASMs until the carrier is sunk, while all the helos are around me watching the pretty rocket launches.

So, does the presence of whales prevent the helos from dropping torp?

I would think that, in a war, those helos would not just let me sit there firing on their carrier and not react just because of the whales. I know they probably like the whales too, but enough to let a multi-billion dollar aircraft carrier be destroyed (and in such a casual fashion)? I don't think so.

So, just wondering if this is truly the case and if anyone else has seen this.

[sep3]

Oh, they knew exactly where I was. At one point, while firing TASMs, I had a helo dipping sonar 100 yds off each beam with 2 active sonobouys directly above me. If they had dropped on me, the torps would have been danger close.

I'm sure, though, IRL the captain of the carrier under fire would have told his pilots "Screw the whales. Kill everything!".

[sep3]

LOL, I hear ya. But if they try, they become enemy combatants to me and I have enough torps for them also. :) "Oops, sorry, my sonarman misclassified your GP tug."

But it would not be difficult for the helos. Unlike sunken ships, dead (exploded) whales get real quiet and rather dispersed. So one torp each ought to do it. Just take them out one at a time.

That leaves them 4 torps for me. But, I would have thought they would at least drop one to make me go deep and fast so that I would stop shooting at their carrier, clear the area (and the whales) and then press home a concerted attack with 7 torps remaining.

[rokvam]

Whales does not constitute a big problem in real life. They keep clear of our subs, for the most part, and to be honest I don't think many of them would stick around for long, when the surface units starts banging away with their active sonars... Whales just don't show up on sonar in the same way ships and subs do. A trained sonar operator has no difficulty separating biological noise from the sound that man made objects make.

I would much rather see more neutral shipping in or around the combat area and strategic map...

-Dolphin 38

[sep3]

Hey, I agree with that. I'd like to see more neutral shipping as well as biologics. That would make things more challenging, especially in target classification. They might even be able to add penalties for shooting neutrals. Problem with that is wire-break on launch or having to run. That'll leave the neutrals at risk. But hey, that's life. I don't think neutrals would be close to a surface action TF, but they could easily be close to a sub or two.

But, while sonarmen can and do easily pick out biologics, untethered torps do not. If fact, in CW is seems that torps tend to be attracted to whales. I don't know why, but all of my MK48s kept wanting to go kill whales and not ships (they were running in passive mode). Luckily, I managed to keep the wires to them all and guide them around.

[sep3]

As for biologics, imagine more than just whales. How about large indiscriminent schools of chirping shrimp or feeding mackerals. They could mask, or at least muddy, the sonar signature of a sub behind them. Maybe even hide a launch transient. Imagine listening to a school of shrimp just to hear the sound of a torp coming out of their midst heading right at you.

That would be so cool.

[rokvam]

Originally posted by sep3:

Hey, I agree with that. I'd like to see more neutral shipping as well as biologics. That would make things more challenging, especially in target classification. They might even be able to add penalties for shooting neutrals. Problem with that is wire-break on launch or having to run. That'll leave the neutrals at risk. But hey, that's life. I don't think neutrals would be close to a surface action TF, but they could easily be close to a sub or two.

Well if it's one thing WWII taught us, it was that war or not, life goes on. Norway was occupied from 1940 to 45, but transport of goods and people continued as normal througought the entire period, and the fishermen still had to fish.

Several fishing vessels, transport ships, and passenger transports were sunk because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time.

I don't think many civilian ships would be found in the middle of the Atlantic or in the middle of the Norvegian sea, but along the coast line of Norway, and around Iceland and Great Britain, plenty of fishing vessels would be found. The odd civilian freighter and passenger ferry most certainly could also easyly end up in the crossfire as well.

As a footnote I must add that in all my years in subs, never once have our torpedoes ever homed on whales. I just can't see them as accidental victims to rogue torpedoes. The two types of whales in game now, normally dive very deep. Deeper than any torpedo ever could dive without imploding...

-Dolphin 38

[sep3]

What would make a torp implode? I mean there are components that may not react well to extreme depths, But I didn't think there were any "voids" in the torp that had to hold against pressure. Maybe the engine cylinders, but those are pretty stout in the swashplate piston engine.

Anyway, in CW I have see torps go real deep on a sunken target (>1600 ft). Takes forever to drag its stupid ass back up to the surface.

[sep3]

According to Wiki (I know, not the most accurate source), it shows max depth of a MK48 at >2600 ft. This is nowhere as deep as a whale can dive, of course, but much deeper than any sub.

[rokvam]

Originally posted by sep3:

What would make a torp implode? I mean there are components that may not react well to extreme depths, But I didn't think there were any "voids" in the torp that had to hold against pressure. Maybe the engine cylinders, but those are pretty stout in the swashplate piston engine.

Anyway, in CW I have see torps go real deep on a sunken target (>1600 ft). Takes forever to drag its stupid ass back up to the surface.

Believe it or not, but torpedoes can't dive to unlimited depths. When the Alfa class appeared it was beleived it could dive to depths in excess of 700 meters. (This was wrong, the real diving depth was around 450 meters i believe) But the initial estimates worried NATO, as no torpedoes in their arsenal could go that deep.

The Mk48 has, in some open sources, been listed with diving depths in exsess of 2500 feet... Over 700 meters. They can probably go deeper, but there are limits...

As to the whales in game. In real life they have been recorded as deep as 1200 to 2500 meters... That's in exsess of 8000 feet...

-Dolphin 38

[ETR3(SS)]

Originally posted by rokvam:

Whales does not constitute a big problem in real life. They keep clear of our subs, for the most part, and to be honest I don't think many of them would stick around for long, when the surface units starts banging away with their active sonars... Whales just don't show up on sonar in the same way ships and subs do. A trained sonar operator has no difficulty separating biological noise from the sound that man made objects make.

I would much rather see more neutral shipping in or around the combat area and strategic map...

-Dolphin 38

Don't forget the shrimp, or the Boing Fish, or dolphins.