Seawolf & Virginia class Sonar acquision(campaign)

[wolf.jaa]

Last few days. I have spent a considerable amount of fun time. Putting both the Seawolf & Virginia class thru their combat sea trials. Ill try to keep this short. At a very high level. Very early. Just my humble opnion. I find the Seawolf to overall better performing than the Virginia. The one thing that sticks out about the Virginia its its high speed and navigation performance. And the VLS suite. I do really enjoy that. But to my point. Most recently. I was taking the Virginia in campagin. Mission was to intercept a boat carrying Spetsnaz. Near Oslo. Total duration (before I decided to quit ) was over 2 hours. I was silent running . 5 knots. perscope depth. down to over a thousand feet. and every variation at 100 feet increments in between.
and for over 2 Hours. I did not detect not even one submarine. come to find out there were four subs. I never got a sniff of one. Im curious if anyone else is having similar/same issues with thee two classes or the game in general. or the sensor suites on either class. love this game.

I also did screen shots to validate my statement.

Good hunting captains.

[alexolivan]

not on the virginia or the seawolf ... but aboard any other ship, yes, many , many times, since this is perfectly normal.

If the ambient noise is high, and enemy subs are crawling quietly (specially diesel) then, even with no layers in between, unleast at very very short distance, this subs are 'black holes'.
No matter how modern the hardware is, if they're quietter than the ambient noise, ther's no way to detect them passively.
Of course, if you get really really close you'll finally hear them.

In this ocasions we have to use active sonar, or deliveratelly cavitate, so that either the target subs or their scorts lose their nerves and shoot at you... revaling their positions.

So, when hunting subs, ambient noise is key factor, specially if you start far from them on the battle (something that we can control but just to acertain point)
In such situation, they find themselves on the classic defensive advantage position, well covered behind a noise wall: since you're the offender, is up to you to take the risk, take the initiative, and asume you're not going probably the one who shoots first.

[wolf.jaa]

alexolivan. that makes perfect sense. I guess it validates the mission by hearing you say that. i got ahead of myself and my frustration got the best of me. As I was certain the Virginia would detect the russian diesels. but it did not. the mission started with me at 25kyds. long way. as you stated. they were blackholes in the water. completely silent. to your comment. the ambient noise in the area for this mission if Im not mistaken was 78dB. which is pretty quiet. Ive seen areas upwards of 111dB and I can detect at least it seems easier. Thanks for your advice and my plan and strategy now is to run back thru the campaign with my Seawolf make a few notes on sensor and verify the ambient noise on each mission just to do a rough comparision once I get back in the Virginia.
Last question. I am a big seawolf and los angeles and Victor 3 fan.
But would like to try other platforms.
from a performance perspective.
what would you consider a top 3 performers in this game in the following categories.
1. Sensor (sonar)
2. Speed (best chance to outrun torpedos)
3. Weapons (TASM or Harpoon)

[alexolivan]

wow! spect such questions to start a hot debate! :-)

With respect to ambient noise, yes, 78dB is a very comfortable ambient noise, but, for what you're talking about (21st century subs), it may be possible that you were engaged against what the USN really calls 'the black hole' (the Kilo) simply from too far.
A kilo crawling at 5-8 knots is extremely quiet, and remember that you need an SNR of >10dB to GAIN contact, although thereafter your sonar man can struggle to KEEP contact until 1dB.
So, proabaly you were close to 10dB anytime, but simply due to distance no contact gain.
If they are after you, you simply vanish... if you're the hunter, you're forced to jump out of the cover and lead the charge...

Whit respect to the 3 question... well, in my opnion:
1- in 68' the sturgeon, in 84' the 688i, after this, my guess is the most recent always the best sensor, but not sure.
2- In 68' any soviet SSN can outrun the mk37. In 84' nobody can outrun its foe's HW torps, but the papa was the fastest ever, although the alfa, almost as fast is far more agile.
3- Any western sub with mk48, along with AI limitations, is weapon superior. Regarding TASM or Harpoon, TASM is much more powerful, but both missiles very conservative designs compared with russian missiles.

[The Inept European]

To me it is least interesting to play with the top performer in any category. Personally I think that is only useful when learning the game. Once you have a basic grasp of the game, the best subs are only challenging when attempting situations with "impossible odds" or other extreme challenges. So I find the 68 campaign, the older subs, the older weapons more interesting. Probably the least interesting thing for me would be to play say a 68 campaign with a 2017 sub (or weapon or sensor). Yet some people seem to like that kind of thing for some reason. To each his own.

[Wiz33]

It also helps not to start at max range when you're expecting deisel subs. I would start at no more than 15K,

[wolf.jaa]

Thanks to all your valuable info. I will take all into account. Good hunting gentleman.

[activated95b]

My tactic for hunting quiet subs is to make a note of the direction of the contact in the screen you get before the battle starts. I close to 10k slow down to 5 knots and go deep. If I do not immedeatly pick up a contact in the direction I was given in the start screen - I fire a torpedo down that bearing. I set it to activate about 2-3 k from my sub and wait for the commotion to start.

Another trick that sometimes works and soe=metimes does not is 'reconnasance by fire.' I launch a torpedo down the bearing that's my best guess as to where the enemy is and then steer it around to see if I scare anybody up.

[wolf.jaa]

activate95b. torpedo recon. makes perfect sense. this tactic is gold as if you are stalking a kilo or quieter boat. and the diesel electric isnt giving you a sniff on your scope. torpedo recon is prob the best. thanks you sir.

[alexolivan]

Take but into account, that all this is perfectly OK on arcadish campaigns where the combination of AI lack of aggresiveness against enemy running torpedoes, together with mk48.mod-God effectiveness is in your side.

Such tactics, using mk37s, are, at the very best, futile, unless very very lucky.

[wolf.jaa]

Alexo. agreed. just finished a campaign using the Virginia. i implemented a few combat tactics you mentioned yesterday. and suprisingly. it was as you stated. I took i think three hits. 1 helo drop. (forgot I was at PD) and a couple torps I couldnt outrun. but overall as you stated yesterday. I was able to successfully detect what I needed to. pre program the weapons and deploy them to their destinations roughtly 98% accurate. the virginia performed flawlessly. I hate using active sonar but I did use it to locate a foxtrot, romeo and julio silently hiding. all three tried to run. unsuccessfully. I killed all three. I try to set my attacks up in such a way that gives me an exit window in case Im detected and need to run. all the while giving them the least amount of time to react once they hear the weapons homing signal. as I usually delvier my adcaps under the layer or as quiet (passive) as I can get them on target. until its too later for them to react or run. kaboom...
moving on to a different platform now in campaign mode.

[Hal8000]

Where do you get the virginia class sub?

[alexolivan]

Originally posted by wolf.jaa:

Alexo. agreed. just finished a campaign using the Virginia. i implemented a few combat tactics you mentioned yesterday. and suprisingly. it was as you stated. I took i think three hits. 1 helo drop. (forgot I was at PD) and a couple torps I couldnt outrun. but overall as you stated yesterday. I was able to successfully detect what I needed to. pre program the weapons and deploy them to their destinations roughtly 98% accurate. the virginia performed flawlessly. I hate using active sonar but I did use it to locate a foxtrot, romeo and julio silently hiding. all three tried to run. unsuccessfully. I killed all three. I try to set my attacks up in such a way that gives me an exit window in case Im detected and need to run. all the while giving them the least amount of time to react once they hear the weapons homing signal. as I usually delvier my adcaps under the layer or as quiet (passive) as I can get them on target. until its too later for them to react or run. kaboom...
moving on to a different platform now in campaign mode.

Glad it worked and sure you had lot of fun :-D .... Cold Waters is a great Game!!!!!

[wolf.jaa]

Hal9000. as have others. I just went out to subsim.com i think you have to login to grab teh zip package. the one in the link has the seawolf virginia along with about 40+ other playable boats. i think you just have to unzip the files and drop the override folder in your CW....\streaming assets folder. read the included text file for detail.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/downloads.php?do=file&id=5234

[Hal8000]

Yeah I found it, thanks!