Submarine specs?

[Darkreaver1980]

Can anyone please post the differences between the subs? on the campaign screen, the stats are mostly the same. I noticed that when i start an early campaign with teh default sub, that its much more quiet than the other ones. I would love to know which sub has better sonar and which one is realy quiet

[dr0r]

C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\Cold Waters\ColdWaters_Data\StreamingAssets\default\vessels

[ramjbjb]

There's some descriptions but I guess people who know nothing about US SSNs might be left wondering a bit too.

There are the following classes in CW ordered by service dates:
-Skipjack (585)
-Permit (594)
-Sturgeon (637)
-Narwhal (671)
-Los Angeles Flight I (688)

Plus there are two versions of the three first classes. Early and Late. Biggest difference between boths is that the late version has a towed array and access to the 1984 weapons while the early one (playable in 1968 scenarios and campaigns) has no towed array and use MK16 and MK37 torpedoes only.

In general the later the class is, the quieter and better passive sonar it has, but the Narwhal is an exception to that. More of that later.

There are some differences in test/Crush depths aswell but I don't know them by memory.


-Skipjack: The most "Russian" US Sub. Still quieter than most russian submarines and with better passive sonar, is the noisiest US submarine by a good margin. It compensates it by being extremely agile, very fast, and having 6 torpedo tubes in the bow (rest of the classes have 4 mounted amidships).

-Permit: Losing a good chunk of speed and agility, the Permit in contrast is noticeably quieter and with a far better spherical hull sonar. Down to the 4 torpedo tubes that are the standard for all the rest of the US Submarines.

-Sturgeon: Loses even more speed (25 knots vs Permit's 28), but becomes even more quiet and stealthy.

-Narwhal: The (for what I've seen) stealthiest US Submarine in the game currently. Same speed as a Sturgeon, generally similar sonar suite, but fitted with a natural convection nuclear plant that only uses coolant pumps at very high power settings, meaning this class barely emits any sound at all when at low power regimes (even the 688 uses coolant pumps which have to be run all the time and are noisier in comparison, making it noisier at slow speeds).

-Los Angeles Flight I: Almost as stealthy as a Narwhal at low powers but much quieter than anything else. It's also stealthier at high powers than even a Narwhal, I think. As fast (almost) as a Skipjack (32 knots top speed). Best sonar suite of any submarine in the game at the moment. Best fire control (able to guide multiple wire guided torpedoes with no problem, the previous classes can only guide one or two depending on model and era).



In fact the distinction between classes is a tad simplified in the game. In 1984 all get the TB-16 towed array so they all get very similar passive capabilities (the towed array is the best means of passive underwater detection so having a worse hull sonar is not that much of a big deal), while in 1984 AFAIK only the 688s and some 637s had it, the rest having to make do without one, or at best fitting one "clip in" less capable towed array like the BQR-23 which, on top of that, were very prone to be ripped off the vessel at very high speeds (thus almost guaranteeing that going from creep speed to flank speed would rip your towed array off, something that weighs heavily in the tactical choices you make)

I guess when we finally see towed arrays properly implemented that extra interclass differentiation might be added, dunno.

But in general those are your available subs and those are their general differences between them.

hope that helped

[Darkreaver1980]

thanks alot! That was realy nice to read! :)

[theCarthaginian]

All after the Skipjacks look very similar because they, in fact, were.
US subs all favored quietness over speed, had 4 torpedo tubes, a sonar that took up the entire bow of the vessel and had a 'top speed' (that the Navy would admit to) of "greater than 26 knots." The Permits are quieter than the Skipjacks, the Sturgeons are quieter than the Permits, and the LA's are quieter than the Sturgeons.

This pattern only changed when the second 'flight' or batch of Los Angeles-class subs were put into the fleet - they had 12 verticle launch cruise missile tubes in addition to the four torpedo tubes. Then came the Seawolf-class with eight torpedo tubes. Then the Virginia-class with four tubes and VLS missiles again.

[dr0r]

You already read all of the vessel config files?! :D

[HuggleSquid]

The subs seem to have different maximum depths too, Skipjack I think has about 700 feet, Los Angeles about 950 feet and the others maybe more, but I'm not sure if the wikipedia reference figures are what the game uses. The russians have deeper diving boats also.

[Temp.sgk]

Tested the Max depth. The Permit, Sturgeon and Narwhal all can go down to 2200 Feet, the Los Angeles can go down about 1400-1500 Feet.

[Darkreaver1980]

2200? holy crap....i mostly stayed around 600-800 cos i thought im already at crash depth :D

[puckhead]

One US class missing that served during these time periods was the Skate class. Only 4 boats but I believe they had a rear tube. Memory a little hazy.

[theCarthaginian]

Originally posted by puckhead:

One US class missing that served during these time periods was the Skate class. Only 4 boats but I believe they had a rear tube. Memory a little hazy.

Two stern tubes, actually.
They were built more along the lines of a nuclear-powered Type XXI u-boot, if you can picture that. The first few nukes the USN built - the Nautilus, the Seawolf, the Triton, the four Skate-class boats and the Tang-class (diesels) were built with that general hull scheme: two screws, a more ship-like hull, and rather tall-ish sails.

Sorry about reversing the Skates and Tangs initially - the Skates were the Tang-class follow-ons, pretty much a Tang-class sub with a reactor/support equipment replacing the diesel/battery spaces.

[getysbug]

After talking to several friends who were bubbleheads during this time period (one served on Permits, one on Permits, Sturgeons,688's and eventually the Seawolf) they all told me the same thing-with the exception of the USS Tullibee (commonly referred to as "Building 597" because it never went out), the USS Narwhal was actually kind of a piece of crap, Tom Clancy nothwithstanding. It was a one off design that didn't really work very well, like the USS Jack SSN-605 which had a really weird contra-rotating propeller design. "Clackety Clack, here comes the Jack" the guys in Squadron 10 used to say...My buddy who was on the USS Tinosa said they referred to her as the "Tiltin' T" because she had a permanant 2 degree list to starboard that they couldn't figure out.
She also had a bulkhead down in the Desiel engine room that had "SSN593" enscribed on it.

[theCarthaginian]

Originally posted by getysbug:

She also had a bulkhead down in the Desiel engine room that had "SSN593" enscribed on it.

I forget which one, but a submarine in WWII had her sister ship's torpedo tubes because her construction progressed faster, and her tubes weren't ready on time.

[puckhead]

Except SSN 593 was USS Thresher wasn't it?

[theCarthaginian]

Originally posted by puckhead:

Except SSN 593 was USS Thresher wasn't it?

Yes... it was, in fact, Thresher.
Could be that someone put it there 'in memoriam' so to speak.

[getysbug]

You were right the first time Carthaginian. The Tinsoa was originally in the running to be the Thresher, but the construction on the Thresher was progressing faster, so many parts went to her, and the Tinosa got the parts meant for 593 when they finally came through.

Tinosa is also the boat they used to figure out what happened to the Thresher, and to help design SUBSAFE.