Stinger missiles for submarines?

[Cpt. Rogers]

Durring 1968 the Redeye was in use.
In the 80s the Stinger was in use.

Now I know a lot of people will debate this but I personally would love it if much like Dangerous Waters I could semi-surface the conning tower and shoot SAMs at those insanely pesky helicopters and airplanes, even if it is really hard I'd like a ability to fight back to some extent.

Could this be added?

Also Russian subs will have SAMs too such as the SA-7.

It'd be nice to have a fly swatter after all.

[puckhead]

You do realize that space on a sub is at a premium? It's not like u just stack explosives in the passageways. Maybe the sub can just carry a predator too.

[Half life Expert]

Even if you get SAMs on your sub, the amount of time to get sufficiently above the surface to fire it, not to mention ready it and get a good lock, may be too long to kill the aircraft before it releases its deadly weapons

[Cap'n Darwin]

Also, just to point this out, SAMs or AAMs of any kind aren't in the current game engine.

[Cpt. Rogers]

It's not so much about the rational idea, but that it's so ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ annoying when airplanes fly over out of reach. And I guess your air force is too busy to come over for a minute.

[Gekkibi]

Originally posted by Cpt. Rogers DFS:

It's not so much about the rational idea, but that it's so ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ annoying when airplanes fly over out of reach. And I guess your air force is too busy to come over for a minute.

You shouldn't have joined the Navy then.

How many NATO planes are supposed to be in the theatre anyway? I understood that the bluefor is the underdog in the game's setting. If this is the case then you really shouldn't expect for the cavalry to arrive & save the day, every single day.

[theCarthaginian]

YES - the USN kind of THOUGHT about a Stinger mast.
No they never fielded it operationally.
IIRC they never even trialed it.
That's why its not there.

Just let the Devs fix the air problems in the patch, and that will probably make things more rational.

[Cpt. Rogers]

I was kind of hoping this game would suplement Dangerous Waters, and have SAMs is the reason I braught it up. That and also I really do hope they add surface ships and multiple vessel controls.

[ramjbjb]

Dangerous Waters has SAMs in Kilo class submarines only. And it has SAMs in Kilo class submarines because in real life Kilo class submarines have that capability.

US submarines do not and have never had. I concur with others; yes the current ASW planes as implemented are powerful to unbelievable levels. And no, the solution is not to bring an unbelievable solution, but to adjust the ASW planes to be believable. We already know that's being done and that the first update will change them to bring them into line.

Problem solved :).

[scbypwr]

There are all kinds of feasible systems on the drawing board. An interesting design uses a torpedo tube launched weapons that rises to the surface and deploys 4 anti-air missiles. If there is an anti-air weapon in the weapons.txt file, something could possible be cobbled together.

Let me go and look...

[Cap'n Darwin]

I've not seen any AAM or SAM data/systems in the files.

[madlarkin8]

Planes are deadly. Game is hard. a sub surfacing to pop off a redeye at a helicopter is not simulation worthy. That is not and never was naval doctrine.

[skinner82384]

I feel as if the option was to face certain death due to air asw...or sacrifice two nubs at sea so that we could stuff their rack full of stinger missles....well....

[Shadow]

Originally posted by RoninSJ:

Just checked the RSR manual. Stinger were only available in the 1992 and 1996 campaigns

Quote:

"The Stinger mast is conjectural. The US Navy ha not (yet?) contracted for adding these weapons to submarines. If you prefer situations limited to hardware currently in development, do not carry Stingers, regardless of time period."

I was about to say this. Yeah, RSR had the Stinger option but only in the most hypothetical (then future) cases, and the Seawolf as well, which was also largely fictional given the lead boat wasn't anywhere near launched yet at the time. Sort of like the F-117 and the mythical F-19 (see their respective games, also from MicroProse).

Anyway, some Russian subs do carry anti-air missiles, but it doesn't seem like a sensible option to be honest. You need to completely expose your submarine to use them and take out an enemy you're better off evading, and if your missile doesn't hit its mark, it's game over. Even if it does, there's a chance the aircraft would've reacted fast enough and dropped a torpedo soon after you launched. Mutually assured destruction. It's just far too risky and evasion remains the safer alternative.

[DasBoot]

As has been already mentioned: US Submarines rely on our naval/land based aviation to protect us from air assets. Remember that getting personnel topside takes longer then it takes the submarine to surface. Many games assume that the bridge is immediately manned as soon as the boat breaks the surface with a full team w/ MANPADS.

Any maritime patrol aircraft or helo with half a brain could drop a torpedo in a fraction of the time it took someone with a MANPADS to get up there and shoot them down. The best defense of a submarine is stealth, but if you wanted to add the ability to shoot down MPAs, you could add a "break EMCON and call air assets" feature, which is far more realistic.

[RoninSJ]

Originally posted by Shadow:

I was about to say this. Yeah, RSR had the Stinger option but only in the most hypothetical (then future) cases, and the Seawolf as well, which was also largely fictional given the lead boat wasn't anywhere near launched yet at the time. Sort of like the F-117 and the mythical F-19 (see their respective games, also from MicroProse).

Anyway, some Russian subs do carry anti-air missiles, but it doesn't seem like a sensible option to be honest. You need to completely expose your submarine to use them and take out an enemy you're better off evading, and if your missile doesn't hit its mark, it's game over. Even if it does, there's a chance the aircraft would've reacted fast enough and dropped a torpedo soon after you launched. Mutually assured destruction. It's just far too risky and evasion remains the safer alternative.

I certainly wouldn't mind a future scenario where some experimental stuff is included (Sea Lance *nudge* *nudge*). The Russian Bear would also get some new toys like better subs, carriers ect.. Anyway, as I understand the idea was that the Stinger wasn't shoulder launched but carried on an mast like esm/radar, which could be used while submerged. Sure, it would give the position away (Harpoon ect. does that too) but it would be a last ditch defense anyway. I guess you would have to use radar too so you would be "lit" like a christmas tree.

But honestly, IMO the game needs a lot of things fixed/included before such stuff is considered