Overwatch

[warner.c.wilson]

I think the Over watch behavior of this game needs to be redone.

For example, after being hit by a shot or explosive, I don't believe it makes sense for the opponent to then be able to react with over watch fire. A reactionary shot should be a different attribute entirely. Too many times have I suck up on an enemy combatant with multiple soldiers only to have their shots do not enough damage and then have them be killed by "Overwatch."

[Ongen]

Yeah i feel like the overwatch system is not working very well either, would be nice if it was a skill instead and you had to manually tap it and make a cone which direction it should cover. Specially when hiding behind cover which seems to be pretty broken, have had so many guys hiding behind cover on overwatch that barely reacts, meanwhile Alien overwatch will snipe you across the map only they see your toe tip.

[FourGreenFields]

Originally posted by Ongen:

would be nice if it was a skill instead [...] Specially when hiding behind cover which seems to be pretty broken, have had so many guys hiding behind cover on overwatch that barely reacts, meanwhile Alien overwatch will snipe you across the map only they see your toe tip.

It is a skill. That is precisely why you're seeing what you're seeing.

Originally posted by Ongen:

make a cone which direction it should cover.

Might make sense for stuff like sniper rifles and MGs - something like adding a bonus to the overwatch chance at the cost of a narrower activation angle.

But it'd make little sense to e.g. shotguns when just standing in a room, so it'd have to be added on top of the current system, if it's added at all.

[warner.c.wilson]

Just moments ago I started a mission where an alien started in view. With no movement I fired at him from inside the Helo with my heavy machine gun. A few shots landed, but didn't kill the alien. Then he reacted with overwatch and killed my soldier. I don't think being shot up should trigger overwatch.

[Gamerzilla]

So its fair if YOUR soldiers do it, but not enemies? If you are having problems with reaction fire from enemies, use the tools given to you in the game to stop them. Flashbangs. Stun Grenades. Smoke Grenades.

To avoid getting shot, don't use a bunch of time units with a single soldier. Use snap shots and not aimed shots. The more TU's a soldier uses while an enemy is staring at them, the more likely they are to react. If you can use grenades, do full auto burst fire. You might miss 100%, but there is a high chance to suppress the enemy.

Conversely, you can lock down areas extremely well with 2-3 soldiers crouched just outside grenade range as long as they have full time units.

[Ongen]

Originally posted by FourGreenFields:

Originally posted by Ongen:

would be nice if it was a skill instead [...] Specially when hiding behind cover which seems to be pretty broken, have had so many guys hiding behind cover on overwatch that barely reacts, meanwhile Alien overwatch will snipe you across the map only they see your toe tip.

It is a skill. That is precisely why you're seeing what you're seeing.

Originally posted by Ongen:

make a cone which direction it should cover.

Might make sense for stuff like sniper rifles and MGs - something like adding a bonus to the overwatch chance at the cost of a narrower activation angle.

But it'd make little sense to e.g. shotguns when just standing in a room, so it'd have to be added on top of the current system, if it's added at all.

I think you misunderstood, what i ment by skill is you would have to manually click "overwatch" and choose which direction for it to cover and if any movement within that area they would shoot. Other similar type of games has it as a manual skill you have to click and spend points for them to overwatch, here they will do as long as you have enough points left and it feels like often they wont react even though it is clear they could have. Also other games have different width / narrow of the cone depending on what type of weapon they use.

[FourGreenFields]

Originally posted by Ongen:

I think you misunderstood, what i ment by skill is you would have to manually click "overwatch" and choose which direction for it to cover and if any movement within that area they would shoot. Other similar type of games has it as a manual skill you have to click and spend points for them to overwatch, here they will do as long as you have enough points left and it feels like often they wont react even though it is clear they could have. Also other games have different width / narrow of the cone depending on what type of weapon they use.

I did cover that in the second part of my answer.

I still disagree with calling such things skills. I also very much disagree with making that the only overwatch system.

[TheCzechM8rvin]

Hmm interesting idea... let's dig in shall we?

First of all I am sure that "overwatch" isn't the right term to use in this situation. Because what we have here now is a "reaction fire" or "oportunity attack". Overwatch is activity and a concentrated focus on certan area which would need action points to be spend to activate it.

What we have here is a simple reaction on unfriendly action. If someone is shooting at me I will shoot back. If someone is trying to get in better position and I have oportunity to stop them I will try to stop them. Only if I am quick and resilient enough to do so (free action points and bravery stat comparison).

What I would like to see is "calm reaction" and "panic reaction".
Where calm reaction is a snap shot in a direction of unfriendly action that is infuencing safety of the one who is reacting. And if there will be still enough points for another snap shot this individual will be ready to deliver another reaction later.
And panic one would be full out burst (if the handled gun has this option) in the direction of unfriendly action and maybe crouch if there are still points available. Which will take place if morale is too much drained for this unit. Downside of this situation is that this individual will have no more reactions until they gets their morale fixed.

If we would like to deliver an aimed shot on a trespasser in distance there would be an overwatch in play. Where the one who is overwatching a limited area is concentrating on the shot and will deliver it if the trespasser will enter in their line of sight. But there will be no other reactions from this individual because they has no free points for reactions. So no return fire if they are attacked from unsafe angle.

There should be even possibility to cancel the overwatch if the concentration of the overwatching individual is taken off by being hit hard or being suppressed or loosing too much morale and so on...

Does this seem ok if it will be available for both sides of conflict?

[TheCzechM8rvin]

Originally posted by TheCzechM8rvin:

What I would like to see is "calm reaction" and "panic reaction".
Where calm reaction is a snap shot in a direction of unfriendly action that is infuencing safety of the one who is reacting. And if there will be still enough points for another snap shot this individual will be ready to deliver another reaction later.
And panic one would be full out burst (if the handled gun has this option) in the direction of unfriendly action and maybe crouch if there are still points available. Which will take place if morale is too much drained for this unit. Downside of this situation is that this individual will have no more reactions until they gets their morale fixed.

I was digging in this situation and I have found several "panic reactions" allready present in game:
First one is of course "suppresed" reaction everybody have seen this I belive. Unit crouch and loose reactions and also half of action points in next turn.
Next one is "panic" reaction where unit crouch and loose all their action points until end of next turn.
Another one is "retreat" reaction where unit drops helded weapon and runs away from the attacker.

All those I have seen. But there is one more.

The "berserker" reaction where unit will use all of their action points for shoot back and if they kill attacker they will shoot at other unfriendlies! I have never seen this one! I am sorry my whole essey above has no value.

Also I have never seen "retreat" or "panic" on ailiens side...

[Gamerzilla]

Originally posted by TheCzechM8rvin:

I was digging in this situation and I have found several "panic reactions" allready present in game:
First one is of course "suppresed" reaction everybody have seen this I belive. Unit crouch and loose reactions and also half of action points in next turn.
Next one is "panic" reaction where unit crouch and loose all their action points until end of next turn.
Another one is "retreat" reaction where unit drops helded weapon and runs away from the attacker.

All those I have seen. But there is one more.

The "berserker" reaction where unit will use all of their action points for shoot back and if they kill attacker they will shoot at other unfriendlies! I have never seen this one! I am sorry my whole essey above has no value.

Also I have never seen "retreat" or "panic" on ailiens side...

1. Humanoid biological aliens DO panic if they see enough allies die in a short time. Sectons also 100% panic if pyschicly linked to a Psyon and the Psyon is killed. Aliens can also go berserk, but they do not drop weapons and run that I have seen. Cleaners can panic, go berserk, and drop weapons.

[layyouin]

Originally posted by Gamerzilla:

So its fair if YOUR soldiers do it, but not enemies? If you are having problems with reaction fire from enemies, use the tools given to you in the game to stop them. Flashbangs. Stun Grenades. Smoke Grenades.

To avoid getting shot, don't use a bunch of time units with a single soldier. Use snap shots and not aimed shots. The more TU's a soldier uses while an enemy is staring at them, the more likely they are to react. If you can use grenades, do full auto burst fire. You might miss 100%, but there is a high chance to suppress the enemy.

Conversely, you can lock down areas extremely well with 2-3 soldiers crouched just outside grenade range as long as they have full time units.

The best items in the entire game are those you listed. Overwatch is fine the way it is and I used it to the full advantage when I was expected to take a shot from aliens. You literally need to have those items on you at all times and learn when and how to use each of them, they are extremely effective for people like OP that think overwatch is cheap., It isn't cheap when it happens the other way around to you I bet.