Laser is better than Accel but does same damage?

[Shrinkshooter]

Accelerated weaponry is stated to be 110% damage, while Laser weaponry is stated to be 135% damage.

If you compare damage numbers from the workshop screen, however, the damage amounts all match. Accel rifle is 40 kinetic damage, Laser rifle is 40 thermal damage. Same applies to all other weapons.

Are these displaying incorrect values or is the "135%" calculated from something other than simply flat damage per shot? What's the deal?

-------------------------

edit: After looking more at a comparison between accelerated and laser weaponry, it appears that the codex entries are just lying, or the developers haven't changed the stats for the lasers to be in line with what the codex says.

The codex claims lasers are more accurate and weigh less, deal 135% damage compared to ballistics, but carry fewer shots. After comparing the tooltips for a laser and accel rifle, it stated that lasers have the same accuracy as accel and ballistics.

I entered a mission where I had two soldiers who each had the same accuracy and modifiers. They were both had an ACC of 73, both had the targeting module (+4) both wearing armor (-3), and both aimed at the ground 7 tiles in front of them (+20% bonus) using a normal shot (modifier of 0.80). The only difference is that one soldiers had an accel rifle and one had a laser rifle. They BOTH had a to-hit chance of 79%.

What does this ultimately mean? Lasers are NOT as effective as the game is leading people to believe.

Accel weapons: Weigh a bit more than lasers. Have much greater mag capacities. Deal the same damage as lasers. Don't do as much damage to terrain as lasers. Penetrate armor better than lasers, but destroy armor much less than lasers. Have the same accuracy as lasers.

This means that the primary advantages of laser weapons are simply armor shredding, a small weight reduction, and a bonus to terrain destruction, but the downsides are little to no armor penetration, tiny mags, and costs more to manufacture.

-----------------------------

edit 2: so the codex text that claims laser weapons do 135% damage is actually referring to after you build the rechargeable laser upgrade in the workshop, which increases laser weaponry from 117% to that number. So the codex entry has no reference to the "halfway there" laser weapon damage. And personally, I had Gauss weapons rolling out by the time that workshop upgrade showed up.

[DaviddesJ]

Where did you see 110% damage and 135% damage?

The damage types are different, how they interact with armor are different, so there's no direct comparison possible.

[Darbie]

Originally posted by DaviddesJ:

Where did you see 110% damage and 135% damage?

The damage types are different, how they interact with armor are different, so there's no direct comparison possible.

It's in the research. You can check it in the Xenopedia. Alien Magnetic Weapons list 110% Damage and 5 Armor Pen. Laser Weaponry lists 135% Damage Multiplier. They both have other things listed as well, like destruction and stuff.

The only thing is, they are listed in different parts of the Xenopedia, and the language isn't quite exact. The Magnetic weapons just say 110% damage, the Lasers say 135% Damage Multiplier.

They either aren't reflecting properly on the weapon UI itself when moused over, or they are intended to be a side-grade/choice over whether you want more Armor Pen or Armor Destruction.

[Sir Wagglepuss III]

I was wondering about this. Mind you, even without the damage lasers are a worthwhile upgrade. The extra accuracy and the armour destruction is very good. Especially considering you'll be getting bigger transports - That means more fresher faces that will benefit from the accuracy bonus.

[DaviddesJ]

I don't have everything unlocked in my current game, but I see where it says that Alien Magnetic Weapons have 110% damage. But that's not the same as saying that the Accelerated weapons that I build using the research will have 110% damage.

[Bird of Few Birds]

Lasers get a free upgrade to Advanced Lasers as you progress the tech, which have 12 more damage and infinite ammo.

[wei270]

i think the 110% and the 135% long with 5 armor pen is the expected value, which means 50% of the time the weapon will be doing 110% of its said 46 for sniper, and 50% of the time acceler weapon pentration will be at 5. because your damage is a range the excat range is unknown, but in the orginal xcom it is 0 to 200% of stated weapon value

[Mikoshi]

laser vs accel seems weirdly documented. But my understanding is that accel has armor pen, laser destroys armor better, but no pen. I saw someone indicate that thermal damage from lasers also does more damage to terrain? Laser also has a bonus to accuracy that apparently only functions for low accuracy soldiers, so like a training wheels type bonus.

Different strengths for each, and non obvious which is better. Which is kind of in sharp contrast to what most people's expectations probably are imo. I definitely held off on making accel weapons, thinking lasers would be a hands down upgrade, only to come to the conclusion that accel is probably better for most use cases, due to cheaper costs, and the armor pen.

[SoylentOrange]

One of the best things between the two for me is that laser stuff is lighter than accelerated, so I can pack in more gear for the same damage.

[Peter34]

"Is lighter" got my attention instantly. Encumbrance seems almost brutal in this game. Upgrading from Warden to Defender armour is huge. Upgrading to Lasers sounds attractive too.

How much do Mag weapons cost to make vs Laser weapons, in terms of stockpiled resources?

[Atari 2600]

Originally posted by Peter34:

"Is lighter" got my attention instantly. Encumbrance seems almost brutal in this game. Upgrading from Warden to Defender armour is huge. Upgrading to Lasers sounds attractive too.

How much do Mag weapons cost to make vs Laser weapons, in terms of stockpiled resources?

Laser takes alenium, accelerated takes only alloys.

[LilyanaKabal]

Thermal also does double damage vs terrain, making it better at smashing enemy cover, and allowing your MARS to put a hole in the UFO front door with less shots.

[Laiders72]

Originally posted by Peter34:

"Is lighter" got my attention instantly. Encumbrance seems almost brutal in this game. Upgrading from Warden to Defender armour is huge. Upgrading to Lasers sounds attractive too.

How much do Mag weapons cost to make vs Laser weapons, in terms of stockpiled resources?

From Warden to Defender? That’s a downgrade. Defender is the starting armour. I assume you mean Guardian (T3) armour?


Both cost insignificant resources so long as you clear most UFOs. I can’t remember which has the lower cash cost. I assume Accelerated.

Clearly I’m an oddball. I got Lasers and Accelerated roughly simultaneously. As such, it was not clear which one was ‘supposed’ to be better/higher tech.

I built some laser rifles and shotguns but rapidly switched over to Accelerated weapons, especially rifles. 5 shots per clip does not cut it at all. It takes 5 mags plus starting mag to equal one accelerated mag. This means no suppression fire from riflemen, less suppression, more dead soldiers. It also means the weight difference is much less on a per shot basis.

Terrain destruction is what MARS and demo charges are for. Or a machine gun in a pinch. Accuracy bonus is mostly irrelevant. Soldiers train accuracy quickly and crappy soldiers can get shotguns or pistols + shield.

[Atari 2600]

Even the initial laser unlock (without upgrade) *should* be better than accelerated kinetics. In looking at the stats, this is, at best, a sidegrade. But as mentioned above, 5 shots? Seriously? Make it 10 and I'll use lasers. No laser gun should fire less than a kinetic shotgun...

Edit: and FOUR shots on the laser shotty!? Ouch...my kids have play dart guns with more ammo...can someone tell me the file name to edit this, lol?

[Morgian]

Since the damage on the weapon is the same, no matter what the fluff text elsewhere says, I go with magnetic weapons for now. The difference is not high anyway when comparing rifles:
Magnetic: 40 damage, 5 pen. , -2 armor/hit, magazine 20, weight 25
Laser: 40 damage, 0 pen., -8 armor/hit, magazine 5, weight 20

1st shot vs. 20 armor
Magnetic: deals 25, reduces armor to 18, total damage 25
Laser: deals 20, reduces armor to 12, total damage 20
2nd shot:
Magnetic: deals 27, reduces armor to 16, total damage 52
Laser: deals 28, reduces armor to 4, total damage 48
3rd shot:
Magnetic: deals 29, reduces armor to 14, total damage 81
Laser: deals 36, reduces armor to 0, total damage 84

When we look at the hitpoints of the aliens, it makes no difference which weapon you use, as neither allows a faster kill (= with less shots). However, that is only true in a one-on-one comparison.
If several soldiers fire at the same target, the additional shooters benefit more from the laser. That might shorten the number of required hits by one. A team with only lasers has slightly better ratio of kills/shots fired. The laser is lighter, an obvious advantage, the magnetic rifle has a far larger magazine. The time spent reloading is not insignificant, and the laser would be way better with 8 shots instead of 5.
I don't remember seeing the laser having better accuracy. If it actually has that, that would make it superior in my eyes. If not, then magnetic weapons are not really worse, and the less TU spent on loading would look even more inviting.

[DaviddesJ]

Originally posted by lokiju:

Even the initial laser unlock (without upgrade) *should* be better than accelerated kinetics.

Why “should” it be better?