Doom Counter

[endersblade]

I've said it before and I'll say it again...ENOUGH WITH THE DOOM COUNTERS. I do not want to be forced to complete my game. At the very least, give us the option to turn it OFF. In XCOM style games, I always take the long game...max out my soldiers, shoot down hundreds of UFOs, etc. Forcing me to wrap things up based on YOUR timeframe is not how I want to play.

[Silencer]

second that. hate when game tells me how i want to play it or finish it, may be it should pay for itself and play itself so i can just watch.

[Sunday Driver]

I tend to prefer a more natural ending and pressure where the enemies build up over time and get so dangerous they take their toll on you.

The mission you steal the cleaner data sticks from their office is one I've mentioned here already but it is an example of a very basic implementation of a natural fail state. You will fail that mission if you stay but not because of a clock saying DING DONG YOU WRONG and then a game over screen. It sends waves of enemies that would take more and more resource and skill to keep at bay until you are chased away or risk losing all your soldiers to attrition.

This could be implemented in a better manner for the strategic map. Perhaps have the doom counter thing either a random percentage event to spice things up (with others in the mix as possibilities) or have it as a setting game mode.

It's basically a hard turn limit and sucks just like when they used to put count down timers that killed you in old platform games, despite you already having hard enemies and lives to deal with.

[AliceTheGorgon]

Would also like to have an optional setting to turn it off. (And possibly a different setting to make an actually "invasion force" sized amount of UFO's and such spawn after the timer ends, so you can play out the final, desperate but doomed, stand?)

I understand the function of raising tension and finality and such that having a set goal point brings, so that should probably stay the default setting, but it would be nice to be able to turn it off for those who don't really gel with the hard cutoff.

[Sunday Driver]

I think it shouldn't be too hard to pressure player with increasing attrition and forces to give them a sense of time running out and a decisive strike being needed rather than just showing the game's hand completely and saying TICK TOCK THIS IS THE TURN LIMIT.

I guess this also explains why the game stopped telling you the date in standard format like it used to and tells you days since the start instead, to give you a turn count.

[Zorp]

The game would become much less immersive and authentic (i dont wanna misuse the word realism) without it. It's an alien invasion, why would they sit around doing nothing letting you progress and become overpowered? It would completely take you out of the game which defeats the point in the first place

That being said, i do agree that you should not be forced to complete your save. There should always be an option to extend it at a cost if you want to keep playing forever

[[*~MAJA~*] Mandragoron]

It should get harder and harder, more ufos, more attacks etc.. This generates already a come to an end "timer"... but NO you got 34 Days until end of game stuff. Thats just bad design.

[Serlo]

Agreed

[endersblade]

Doom counters are artificial and a detriment to any game. There are far more XCOM clones without one than with.

We're fighting a war against an alien invasion. Are you telling me we're supposed to completely wipe them from existence in less than a year? That's nonsensical. If you want to rush to the end, you already have that option. I don't want to rush. I want to shoot down hundreds of UFOs. I want to have soldiers with capped stats and hundreds of kills. I want to have, you know, a WAR. Not a skirmish and then poof, end game. I don't have ADHD. I want the long game of attrition, not shoot my load in 6 months and then get handed the end.

[Sunday Driver]

Originally posted by Analander:

The game would become much less immersive and authentic (i dont wanna misuse the word realism) without it. It's an alien invasion, why would they sit around doing nothing letting you progress and become overpowered? It would completely take you out of the game which defeats the point in the first place

That being said, i do agree that you should not be forced to complete your save. There should always be an option to extend it at a cost if you want to keep playing forever

Hard disagree. It wasn't needed in previous games in the XCOM series or others inspired by it that worked fine. It's a cheap artificial very gamy and ironically immersion breaking moment when they just say YOU HIT TURN XXX SO TURN COUNTER OVER DING DING YOU LOSE NOW NO MATTER WHAT.

The whole point is to have increasing levels of infiltration and naked aggression which brings down the supporting governments and directly threatens your own forces at the same time too. That is the immersion friendly route. It should build from spooky and unknown to the struggle to win the alien war and you find that eventually it is building up to the point where your forces will clearly be getting stretched thin, that heroism is no longer securing you great victories but just allowing you to get by, when there's no more great tech discoveries or tactics to save the day either. You realise that you need a new tactic, something bold, something to decapitate the alien menace before the overwhelm you and for each player that time will come naturally at different moments, depending upon difficulty too, but it will come eventually no matter what. Now THAT'S how you do the natural build up. Not just a clock ticking down that says "BEEP BEEP TURN 300 SO YOU LOSE THE GAME, PLEASE INSERT ANOTHER COIN".

It even worked in the overlooked XCOM Apocalypse where they did this (and would have been even better if the game wasn't cut back for release, sadly!). The doom counter jumping into the game is a step backwards to some 8-bit anachronism that should never have been brought back.

Just as people elsewhere discussed the importance of the TU system in giving more freedom and a better natural flow to the gameplay, the menace and threat should allow for freedom and a better natural flow too. It should be up to the player to decide if they can still hold the line or if they make their move because they are ready or have no choice. Not just a turn counter telling them what to do and how to play. It also removes late game challenge and fun in seeing if an how long you can hold them off when it gets to crazy late game all out war.

[[*~MAJA~*] Mandragoron]

That this thing is still in the game after years of feedback that this feature is not accepted by a big majority of the players.. is a bad sign... and shows that early access is not about working with the feedback of the players, is about free testing capacity for bug hunting...

[Sunday Driver]

Originally posted by *~MAJA~* Mandragoron:

That this thing is still in the game after years of feedback that this feature is not accepted by a big majority of the players.. is a bad sign... and shows that early access is not about working with the feedback of the players, is about free testing capacity for bug hunting...

Even if they made it a game mode that is selectable (whether default on or off) it would appease most people then. It's mystifying as to why it would even be considered to be so core to the game working or not when it's already been proven many times over it's not needed for this kind of game to be good. Is it just aping Phoenix Point and others again, like the ant farm base they almost did was mistakingly aping that reboot era too? I've not heard a good explanation as to why it MUST be in there or why players must have no choice in the matter.

To be fair they did ditch the ant farm after feedback said it sucked and was a bad move to try to copy the neo-XCOM after Xenonauts success as a design and in sales was purely because of people rejecting it and much of the rest of the direction that reboot took it in. I really hope they listen to more of these ideas too and don't just stubbornly sail the boat off a waterfall.

[ulzgoroth]

I have to ask, is there actually a doom counter?

Because I don't think that's an accurate description.

[endersblade]

Laser shows up
You have X days to end the game or you lose
Hence, Doom counter

[Wenchbane]

I'm just hoping the doom counter is there for demo purposes. If it's a core component that's a big con to this game. To iterate I don't mind timers and events triggering at certain times, that's fine. But having a "rush, rush, rush" leads to only one optimal path to play the game.

[ulzgoroth]

Originally posted by endersblade:

Laser shows up
You have X days to end the game or you lose
Hence, Doom counter

Do you have X days to end the game or you lose? Do you really?

Because that's not what the laser did last time I saw it.

Are you just assuming that big laser fires means you lose the game, or did the game actually tell you that?