異種航員2 Xenonauts 2

異種航員2 Xenonauts 2

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Caelum 2023 年 2 月 8 日 上午 9:29
I love the human enemies.
The “cleaners” are so thematically awesome and help tie up a lot of loose ends on why my xenonauts force is working with peanuts instead of full military divisions, while retaining the “this is an invasion, not an occupation” aspect. That said, it’d be narratively more appropriate, I think, if you didn’t fully understand the motivations or even who the cleaners are until later in the game.

Once the genie is out of the bottle and you understand they are just brainwashed spy agencies it loses a bit of its spark.

That said, I again double down by saying human enemies in an original xcom game are incredible! Finally, some squishy men on my level to shoot at!
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Goldhawk  [開發人員] 2023 年 2 月 8 日 下午 3:02 
Thanks. Yeah, the Cleaners have been received well by our community so far, so we are planning to expand their role a little bit in the future. Hopefully before the Early Access launch!

(There’s actually a little more to their origin story than you see in the demo, too.)
最後修改者:Goldhawk; 2023 年 2 月 8 日 下午 3:03
Nightbringer 2023 年 2 月 8 日 下午 3:38 
I disliked narrative of the Cleaners. First, it feels something which aliens would consider a good idea. Shooting out a civilian base is sure way to attract attention to an alien threat. Any human or group of us who would say that aliens are real, would become a social pariah. However, if these nutcases start disappearing, often their firms being found riddles with bullet holes, that would raise alarm bells at the highest level and humans would catch on it like wildfire. Our psychology is like that. If people try to silence something, we instinctively blow it out. Thus the whole concept of it isn't realistic. It feels very gamer-like to me.

My second concern is what kind of organisation would have resources to tackle XCOM and act on such a massive level. They are attacking heavily defended small military installations and have intelligence gathering capabilities across the world. That are some serious capabilities. Same as with XCOM, it would actually take a lot of resources to do what they are doing. It isn't a small fish and it raises questions for me.

Third issue is, why humans would work against themselves? Sure, EVVIIILL. I can work with that in a game, but it isn't really realistic. Influential people would not throw their fortunes and wealth away at something like this. First, they (aliens) do not it exists and secondly, humans are inherently xenophobic. We would inherently distrust aliens, especially when they arm us with soldiers and ask to kill our own.

In conclusion, I never liked human enemies in XCOM games. It only takes away from a narrative of "us against them". It also takes away screen time which could be used to better characterise our enemies or us. For example, Xenonauts always have a narrative issue with it being set in prolonged Cold War. Alright, why the damn Soviet Union pays me!? Like seriously, isn't that a big question? Together with it being totally cool in us operating in their airspace and sending kill squads there. Game handicaps itself narratively and spends its energy where it is not needed instead of making cool interaction with a competing human faction.

I saw human enemies only in this demo and in Firaxis XCOM. They were terribly done in XCOM. Hopefully, they will prove to be more interesting in this game.
最後修改者:Nightbringer; 2023 年 2 月 8 日 下午 3:40
Punished Fish 2023 年 2 月 8 日 下午 4:04 
引用自 Nightbringer
I disliked narrative of the Cleaners.

Points 2 and 3 of what you are complaining about is explained in the game. So play like half an hour of it before you say anything.

The first point is a child's abstraction. And I shouldn't address it because its too big of a topic for stream forums, but I still want to type something. Yea, suppressing things can make things spread more. But at the same time it doesn't. Ask people on the street what they know about Guantanamo Bay, MKultra, or the effort to spread cocaine in impoverished communities. And thats just the more popular stuff.

An actual concentrated and concerted effort from a large entity can suppress something. What you are talking about is a school banning books or something, which is not a very large effort.

Ultimately though, its a game. Suspend your disbelief a little.
最後修改者:Punished Fish; 2023 年 2 月 8 日 下午 4:08
Nightbringer 2023 年 2 月 9 日 上午 5:39 
Is in this demo? It is supposedly a long demo then. However, you obviously did not payed much attention to what I was writing, because I know bits from what others had wrote.

You know that Guantanamo Bay is well known abroad? It is not the best examples. The better one is such institution in our country. It was discovered. There was a scandal. We were punished and few people remember about it. Suppression of information on a large scale does not work, because it leaves more traces than said information itself. It is easy to silence one person, but when there is a systematic problem, it is impossible to do that. As an example, remember when Russia tried to silence their spy? Or how they tried to poison their opposition leader? They blew out him out of proportion and it were international news. Now we are talking about organisation which literally goes around the globe, wiping out small settlements clean out of the map and nobody is bothered that an entire town disappeared while houses are riddled with bullets? Give me a break, that would be an international level scandal with a massive investigation going on. Trying to silence something only works when said information is not widespread. Like one person knows something. You can make it disappear. However, when entire companies are starting to disappear, then it becomes way too much to ignore. Especially in a modern era when information can spread like wildfire as opposed to back in a day when if something bad is isolated enough, nobody is going to discover it.
最後修改者:Nightbringer; 2023 年 2 月 9 日 上午 5:40
dyra55 2023 年 2 月 9 日 上午 5:41 
引用自 Nightbringer
Is in this demo?

Yes after you do your first Cleaner mission and get at least one Cleaner body to the base you get a Cleaner Autopsy
After that you unlock a Cleaner research which also gives a little bit more info about them once completed
最後修改者:dyra55; 2023 年 2 月 9 日 上午 5:42
Nightbringer 2023 年 2 月 9 日 上午 6:01 
I got first body. I captured live Cleaner, but there still was no text about live interrogation. I still did not progressed past that point, so I assume there is a little bit more information about them in a demo.
最後修改者:Nightbringer; 2023 年 2 月 9 日 上午 6:01
dyra55 2023 年 2 月 9 日 上午 6:27 
引用自 Nightbringer
I got first body. I captured live Cleaner, but there still was no text about live interrogation.

None of the interrogations are in the demo it seems like
But seems like there are autopsy of every enemy creature that appears so far
One of those an autopsy of an Cleaner operative that opens up the anatomy of one

Once you complete the Cleaner Operations Research it opens a mission to raid a Cleaner Information Center where you have to smash and grab at least 10 sticks of information from computers and extract them back to the choppa

Completing that unlocks Cleaners Headquarters Research which would unlock a mission to raid an Cleaners Headquarters, that one is a little bit difficult since they run more advanced alien weapons there with sentry on every corner
Nightbringer 2023 年 2 月 9 日 上午 11:54 
Does a demo have a timer or it ends when I complete some mission? I'm concerned, because in game pop ups gave me a notion that demo is only few months long.
dyra55 2023 年 2 月 9 日 下午 12:15 
引用自 Nightbringer
Does a demo have a timer or it ends when I complete some mission? I'm concerned, because in game pop ups gave me a notion that demo is only few months long.

After a certain amount of in-game days it ends, for me it was at day 40 both times
Nightbringer 2023 年 2 月 9 日 下午 1:03 
Ah, so I do not have a time to do that anymore. It seems you have to rush it.
Sunday Driver 2023 年 2 月 9 日 下午 7:22 
I like the cleaner enemies too. It's a nice basic and understandable enemy to encounter and helps connect up things with the idea of infiltration, their plans to use and control humans and so on. Having an enemy that is your direct peer is a nice thing to have in the mix of the more special enemies.
dyra55 2023 年 2 月 9 日 下午 11:36 
引用自 Hoxilicious
I like the cleaner enemies too. It's a nice basic and understandable enemy to encounter and helps connect up things with the idea of infiltration, their plans to use and control humans and so on. Having an enemy that is your direct peer is a nice thing to have in the mix of the more special enemies.

Same, and makes the aliens seem more sinister than just a scary invading force

And how tutorial sets up them as a threat to tie in with a story implying cleaners could take over one of the bases

I hope there's more things with them in a final game compared to what you see in a Demo, since in there it's only three missions
Sunday Driver 2023 年 2 月 10 日 上午 5:18 
It allows for some really cool mission ideas too like maybe you are to investigate or scour a military or civilian facility where people have been replaced by cleaners when obviously big lizard people would stand out and be noticed pretty quick..
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張貼日期: 2023 年 2 月 8 日 上午 9:29
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