Is there any reason to get the 20mm cannons?

[100% Wolf Urine]

On paper it's worse in every possible category to comparative guns like the .50x4 mk3.

Is there some hidden factor that makes it worth getting?

[XxJOSExX017]

I would honestly tell you that they have no apparent advantage, that's why it's better to use the .50x4 mk3

[Kyo21943]

Higher penetration and damage per single shot than .50 Cal make up for their low firerate, because they fire slower i place 20mm as my Tail Gun (feels like they hit way more there) which mixed with Mid and Ventral .50x4 MK3 (Belt) destroy anything that tries to follow me, they seem to perform better than just having .50s everywhere...

Plus i like listening to different sounds, hearing .50s or .303s all the time is painful, lol

[100% Wolf Urine]

The numbers say that the .50 has a higher dps though, along with every other possible factor (weight, cost, ammo). If there is something that makes them a valid choice, it's a hidden factor that the game isn't telling you.

[Kyo21943]

Originally posted by fabio:

The numbers say that the .50 has a higher dps though, along with every other possible factor (weight, cost, ammo). If there is something that makes them a valid choice, it's a hidden factor that the game isn't telling you.

DPS is damage per second, the final output but only IF ALL shots hit their target (compare a sniper rifle and an assault rifle from your usual FPS, they both can kill other players easily but the rifle has a higher damage per shot followed by long reloads while the AR is only useful if you can hit all your shots), around 1 salvo from one of your gunners hit for each 3-5 that miss when you use a 303/50 machinegun, because it seems like they balanced the 20mm to have a higher accuracy to compensate the low firerate (or at least it feels like that), so, if a 20mm hits their target more consistently than a .50 then it will deal more damage... and then there's penetration:

.303 deal minimal damage to certain late-game aircraft due to their armor, this is why AP Rounds are necessary to down them with .303 and sometimes even .50
Lets say that the Me 262 have an armor with a value of 10 and the Bf 109 have 0 armor, while .303 guns have 2 penetration, .50 Cal have 5 and 20mm have 10 penetration... plus AP Rounds boost any gun by 10 penetration.

So, engaging a Bf 109 will be easily downed by any gun, specially the .50 Cal turrets, as they have the highest DPS... however, if you engage a Me 262, only 20mm cannons will be able to deal their normal/true damage because their penetration negates the armor of the Me 262, which means they are the most effective way to down them, specially because the .50 and .303 tend to miss way more and their damage is reduced by half or more due to the enemy armor, which is why if you wanted to kill that Me 262 fast you would have to use AP Rounds on your turrets.
(And AP rounds seem to boost damage as well, this explains why i have seen boosted 20mm cannons shred to pieces anything that tails me way faster than the rear .50 cal i had before)

[100% Wolf Urine]

Is that penetration stuff confirmed?

Starting a campaign over, I did find one advantage to the 20mm: they're available a LOT earlier than the x4 guns or even the .50. I never noticed since I had bought the DLC when I was already 3/4ths through the campaign the first time around.

[Kyo21943]

Originally posted by fabio:

Is that penetration stuff confirmed?

Starting a campaign over, I did find one advantage to the 20mm: they're available a LOT earlier than the x4 guns or even the .50. I never noticed since I had bought the DLC when I was already 3/4ths through the campaign the first time around.

Penetration and Armor have always been in-game, even if we don't know the specifics, you don't need to look at stats to realize .50 Cal kill "heavier" enemies faster than .303 even if they have a similar DPS.... and that's also the only reason why AP Rounds and 20mm cannons exist.... ._.

Also, imo, only the MK3 Belt-fed 20mm Cannons are worth having, i knew you unlock lower tier versions earlier but they do not have Belt-fed versions and their usefulness is soon enough surpassed by .303x4 and .50

[100% Wolf Urine]

While we're on the subject of hidden gun factors, what's up with incendiary and defensive fire? Does incendiary do anything besides unlimited ammo for a few seconds?

I was never sure what defensive fire did. Spray the area to simply drive off fighters for a while rather than kill them?

[Kyo21943]

Originally posted by fabio:

While we're on the subject of hidden gun factors, what's up with incendiary and defensive fire? Does incendiary do anything besides unlimited ammo for a few seconds?

I was never sure what defensive fire did. Spray the area to simply drive off fighters for a while rather than kill them?

I assume that Incendiary Rounds are just a raw damage boost (because enemy aircraft don't seem to be consumed by fire, it's just a cosmetic effect and damage indicator) that's why it's as good and bad against any kind of enemy, making AP Rounds better for dangerous enemies or emergencies.

Defensive fire is pretty much what you think, enemies are far less likely to engage you from the direction your gunner is firing at. I have found it's good ability if you're under heavy fire and need time to manage your crew, plane or focus on bombing/navigating.

Also, i looks like you haven't read the in-game info on abilities...?
You can click on the abilities of your crew in the airbase "training" section/tab. It gives you a short explanation on unlocked passive and active skills.

[D3adlyMole]

cannon have better range

[100% Wolf Urine]

I read the ability descriptions but they're not very...descriptive. It doesn't flat out tell you any specific damage/supression effects.

[destruya]

I have the 20mm with the ammo feed up front, simply because I like the idea of cannon shells hitting before my quad-fed .303s rip the hell out of everything close-in. I will be changing to quad belt-fed .50s when I finally unlock them - maybe try to put them fore and aft if I can swing it weight-wise.

I did run the non-fed 20mm for a while, but I liked the idea of adding the feed and being able to armor my bombardier/gunner heavily since all he has to do is go up and down.

[destruya]

Having finally unlocked everything, I can say that 20mm in spots doesn't beat quad .50s in the front, upper mid, and tail. I even added a Mk1 .50x2 with feed to the ventral turret for those pesky bloodsuckers.

Up until I could add the .50x4 Mk3 + feed, I had the Mk3 20mm + feed up front, and I've never had to worry about the vertically-launched interceptors in a while.

[100% Wolf Urine]

I never go for the ammo feeds in the upper and lower turrets. The distance to the ammo box is so short that even the most heavily weighed down gunner can fetch ammo and be back at the gun in less than 5 seconds.

I ALWAYS go for the ammo feed in the tail gun.

[destruya]

Yeah, but you're screwed if those five seconds coincide with the vertically-launched rocket-firing interceptors. I managed to find a really decent loadout with belt-fed .50s all around:

2x Standard Engine Mk 5 (outers)
2x Armored Engine Mk 5 (inners)
.50x4 Mk3 + feed (tail, upper, and nose)
.50x2 Mk1 + feed (ventral)
Electric, Hydraulic, Extinguisher Mk4, and Radar, Oxygen, and Fuel Tanks at Mk3
3x Equipment Slots on all four stations
Lightweight Chassis Mk5 on the nose, front, mid, and main rear
Armored Chassis Mk5 on the tail, Armored Mk6 on the wings
No Survival gear, all crew dressed with the most heavily armored loadout except the mechanic, who only has enough to survive cold for moderate periods, since he's also the primary medic.

Comes out at 6495/6500 - I know I could go lightweight engines on the outboard stations, but I like not having to worry about them as much. The only reason I wanted a feed in the lower gun is that it's used so infrequently that I don't want an Me210 getting under there when I realize I haven't reloaded it. Five seconds getting pelted without an answer can be the difference between success and failure.