Historical Markings?

[It'sCamellia (Former MadKerbal)]

Searching through the Twitter for the game https://twitter.com/BomberCrewGame I found that earlier in development the bomber had the RAF roundels and squadron codes, however all of the screenshots and Gifs since June do not have them, Will the game have the option to activate them or maybe the ability to mod them in? And if the Squadron Codes are in Game are you able to make Custom Codes? (I want my 75 squadron bomber :P)

[Swisspike]

Here's a story for you, dealing with Air Force markings.

Look up the squadron patch for the 509th Bombardment Wing, stationed at Whiteman AFB, Missouri.

This is the lineal descendant of the bomb group which dropped the atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Yep...you guessed it. There is a mushroom cloud in the current, active duty bomb wing, currently on the uniforms of the airmen belonging to the B-2 bomber wing there now.

I just have to shake my head at this...and hope that the USAF, in their wisdom, doesn't send any of these crews to Japan on temporary duty.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/371930415032?chn=ps&dispItem=1

[It'sCamellia (Former MadKerbal)]

Originally posted by Swisspike:

Here's a story for you, dealing with Air Force markings.

Look up the squadron patch for the 509th Bombardment Wing, stationed at Whiteman AFB, Missouri.

This is the lineal descendant of the bomb group which dropped the atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Yep...you guessed it. There is a mushroom cloud in the current, active duty bomb wing, currently on the uniforms of the airmen belonging to the B-2 bomber wing there now.

I just have to shake my head at this...and hope that the USAF, in their wisdom, doesn't send any of these crews to Japan on temporary duty.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/371930415032?chn=ps&dispItem=1

I think I can see the point you are trying to make, however there is a differance from both WW2 and the modern era as well as a differance between RAF Squadron patches and USAF ones, with Bomber Crew the Lanc doesn't even have the RAF roundel, which makes the bomber look 'off' as well as lacking the red Squadron ID codes (EG. http://c8.alamy.com/comp/E95KK7/raf-roundel-and-identification-code-of-a-world-war-2-lancaster-bomber-E95KK7.jpg) I just feel this would make it look better. even if the bomber lacks the codes I feel the Roundels are a must, even if they are an option to be enabled or a 'mod'

[Vamandrac]

Historical markings would be a nice touch.

[S'Aarum]

Well bombs of 800kg do a similar cloud...but less tall. ^^

[Miller]

Originally posted by Swisspike:

Here's a story for you, dealing with Air Force markings.

Look up the squadron patch for the 509th Bombardment Wing, stationed at Whiteman AFB, Missouri.

This is the lineal descendant of the bomb group which dropped the atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Yep...you guessed it. There is a mushroom cloud in the current, active duty bomb wing, currently on the uniforms of the airmen belonging to the B-2 bomber wing there now.

I just have to shake my head at this...and hope that the USAF, in their wisdom, doesn't send any of these crews to Japan on temporary duty.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/371930415032?chn=ps&dispItem=1

its just showing the squadrons history, nothing wrong with that

[DynamoDavo]

Hi!

The roundels are copyright of the MOD. However, there is an ingame wing/nose/engine art editor, so you'll be able to recreate historically accurate markings :)

Thank you for asking!

[Jonnydodger]

Originally posted by DynamoDavo:

Hi!

The roundels are copyright of the MOD. However, there is an ingame wing/nose/engine art editor, so you'll be able to recreate historically accurate markings :)

Thank you for asking!

Just wondering if you asked the MOD about adding them.
I imagine if you explained the game and stuff to them, they'd be more than happy to give their blessings. Not very often you get a cutesy game that's specifically about RAF Bomber Command.

[Philippe_at_bay]

I've never heard of MOD giving a hoot about that kind of thing. Sounds more like an overzealous lawyer making business decisions while pretending to be conservative.

I'm assuming this is what you're talking about:
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1176607936

[Jonnydodger]

Originally posted by Philippe_at_bay:

I've never heard of MOD giving a hoot about that kind of thing. Sounds more like an overzealous lawyer making business decisions while pretending to be conservative.

I'm assuming this is what you're talking about:
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1176607936

I think they wouldn't mind if they used the RAF flags, roundels and stuff, as long as they are informed about it first. Which is why I asked if they actually contacted the MOD.

[Philippe_at_bay]

This is utter nonsense. People have been putting these things in commercial releases (rather than mods) for at least three decades without hearing a peep from Her Majesty's government, and under common law the failure to protest and defend an imagined copyright for such a prolongued period of time is probably enough to put it into the public domain.

I'd like to see some evidence (other than flippant remarks) that MOD is legally capable of holding any copyright on anything whatsoever. And that's before we get into the question of whether a copyright on these roundels could even exist.

In any case, there were many different RAF roundels with bands of different widths and the colors used will have always been different from the colors in a computer game like this because these will be saturated beyond the point of any legal definition in an imagined copyright statement. It's common practise for countries to pass laws defining the exact size, shape, and colors of their national flag (read the flag definition notes on the different flags at the FOTW website), so if any piece of legislation about a roundel did actually exist, it would specify the colors and these wouldn't be it.

[Jonnydodger]

Originally posted by Philippe_at_bay:

This is utter nonsense. People have been putting these things in commercial releases (rather than mods) for at least three decades without hearing a peep from Her Majesty's government, and under common law the failure to protest and defend an imagined copyright for such a prolongued period of time is probably enough to put it into the public domain.

I'd like to see some evidence (other than flippant remarks) that MOD is legally capable of holding any copyright on anything whatsoever. And that's before we get into the question of whether a copyright on these roundels could even exist.

In any case, there were many different RAF roundels with bands of different widths and the colors used will have always been different from the colors in a computer game like this because these will be saturated beyond the point of any legal definition in an imagined copyright statement. It's common practise for countries to pass laws defining the exact size, shape, and colors of their national flag (read the flag definition notes on the different flags at the FOTW website), so if any piece of legislation about a roundel did actually exist, it would specify the colors and these wouldn't be it.

Just looked it up, you do have to apply for a licence to use MOD logos and stuff.
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/584237/20170117_MOD_Crown_Copyright_Licensing_Information_Version_v0_1.pdf
Specifically section 11.
I am unsure, however if it applies to logos they used in the past.

[Jonnydodger]

Ok, did some digging, found this:
List of Products which are unacceptable (for an MOD licence) , or will require careful consideration by the Forces before you should proceed:
n. Products that glorify violence or death (including computer games)
So, once again, they should explain the game to the MOD.

[Nunny]

After reading the licensing info, I don't think it applies to the logos of the past. Also reference annex B. which refers to https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/549281/20160801_-_Royal_Air_Force_Insignia_List_-_FOR_APPLICANTS.pdf

The WWII era roundels had a yellow ring around the outside.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Air_Force_roundels

The modern roundel does not have the yellow ring. Only the modern roundel is listed in the MOD list of RAF insignia and therefore the WWII era roundels should be free to use.

I'd say put em in the game. If the MOD comes back with a cease and desist, then it would be easy enough to put a patch out to delete them out, if required.

[Nunny]

I wonder if 1C had to get licencing for Cliffs of Dover or their other simulation games?

[Jonnydodger]

Originally posted by Nunny:

I wonder if 1C had to get licencing for Cliffs of Dover or their other simulation games?

Good question. I think the devs best course of action is to enquire about it to the MOD. As I said above, they don't like licencing "Products that glorify violence or death (including computer games)". So either they won't care (and the devs took their copyrights on their current insignias as a copyright on everything) or they will care and nothing changes. Though I doubt they will, I imagine the RAF would like to get their name on a game like this.