Learning from Theme Hospital's Deficiencies.

[Aphid]

First off, I love the idea of an improved, modernized version of this old classic. Theme hospital is even today still an amazing game. Of course, as it's around 20 years old, it's not without its deficiencies. Graphics-wise it's easy to point fingers. Gameplay wise though it's a bit more complex, but you can still see where they had to cut corners to make things work on old hardware.

Here's my biggest pet peeves about Theme hospital, where if some of these are solved, that makes this game an instant buy for me. What are your pet peeves?

1) The radiators.

The radiators were not a fun game mechanic. The solution to the problem (patients get cold) is both boring, tedious, and a trap for later levels where you just did not have the money.

Basically, you had to manually turn the thermostat up or down each month or couple of months to keep people reasonably warm (not too hot, not too cold), and put a radiator every 4-5 tiles. Oh and also do that in unused areas of your building or your staff would wander there and complain.

If you're going to have the radiators (I saw them in the preview video's), can we also have a boiler and themostat? That way, we can make sections of the hospital climate-controlled. Boiler connects to thermostat, and N radiators connect to one boiler. You can have one central heating system, or multiple systems. In addition, to keep a monotonous solution (one radiator every X tiles == problem solved) from being optimal, machines should have heat output, while outer walls should be heat sinks (an inner room needs less heating than one with a view outside). If there's hot climates, there could be AC units too to add to your thermostat.

2) The earthquakes.

These were terrifying. Often the best way to play was to save after the pre-shock, let it run and destroy some random rooms, note down which rooms got destroyed, re-load the save, slow down the game speed,then re-buy each of the destroyed machines like mad. In large hospitals like battenberg this was a real chore and required quick fingers.

Worse, in some cases it was best to sell the room completely, some machines were awfully weak, where a single quake could just destroy your machine completely (looking at you, inflator room).

The worst part is not that the patient died, or even that you lost your money, or even that the consultant you had to train for 3 months died (well, unless it's your one and only researcher you ever get, then you might as well restart). No, it's that that part of the hospital becomes permanently unusable. That could probably be toned down to not be so insanely punishing.

Scenarios without a time limit probably should not become unwinnable.

3) Lack of scale / Z-levels?

Scale itself (building a big hospital) is always a fun way of creating challenge. Figuring out optimum ratios of rooms, figuring out efficient layouts, and so on. The original is pretty small in scale, it had to be to be able to even run. But today we could simulate a 10-story hospital with similar sophistication with ease.

Are there going to be ways to build UP?

4) Too much time compression (doing things relative to walking around).

Some rooms were just too fast. Like say the ward. Putting more than 3 beds in it was pointless because the patients slept for all of 15 seconds, and the first patient would get out already before the third lied down, thus beds #4, #5, ... are just wasted space.

I get the need for time compression, but please, consider not going so far as to be only 'barely' playable, where 98% of the time is spent walking by staff/visitors/patients. Too much time compression causes distorting effects on a simulation, and creates unrealistic limitations.

For example, in the original Theme Hospital, this problem means that having say a 'work speed bonus' from larger rooms is completely irrelevant, the entire game becomes only about walk speed, so only smallest rooms works far better.

[Robby Suavé]

I have to be one of the biggest Theme Hospital fans alive, and it looks like you are too. You pointed out everything perfectly. I'm really excited for Two-Point Hospital, and I hope it is everything Theme Hospital was and more.

[Radbot42]

I'd love to have more floors, but not at all excited to have a large 10 building hospital. Too many things that can go wrong that you won't see.. If It were a small hospital in lets say a city that has too build up since it cant go horizontally, would be cool though. 10 stories, elevators and stairs, not a whole lot of things per floor. Could even do a basement.

[Ridden]

+1 Z-Level

[was_fired]

I'm really curious how this ends up comparing to Theme Hospital. Here's hoping they're able to build from that starting point into something even better.

[Neonivek]

Z-Levels is part of the "Bigger is Better" Falacy most people have.

It SOUNDS like a good idea on paper because it leads to a bigger hospital. But what you actually are doing is raising how complicated the game is WHILE also disconnecting the player from the hospital itself... All for something that doesn't serve the gameplay and doesn't serve the aestetic. In fact it takes away from the gameplay.

If they add Z-Levels I swear to you, you will find the game lacking but be unable to put your finger on why... There is just something less charming.

And I assure you, you don't mean SMALLER levels... but with extra Z-levels.

Then you are probably right now thinking of the levels in Theme Hospital where your hospital was split into peices and are going "Well, what if instead those were different levels of your hospital"... but your forgetting that Z-Levels are not a tangible distance in the game. The levels with your hospital split up were part of thinking how to organize your hospital to overcome this challenge.

Z-Levels' challenge isn't Spatial awareness, it is memorization... It wouldn't have the same challenge.

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For examples of this there are two games in particular:

-Mall Tycoon: Adds Z-Levels but when you play the game, the extra Z-Level seriously detracts from the gameplay. There is just no purpose to a second level beyond just the ability to have a second level (segregating your mall is pointless).

-Dead Rising 3: Adds an entire city! but because it is a city and not a mall it means not ONLY are you not as intimately involved with the locations, but they have to put weapons everywhere because they cannot really personalize every location (So, they can't just have you visit weapon stores... because that might be at the other part of the city... So they just put huge guns and weapons in the street)

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I will agree with the Radiators though not to your overly complicated solution. (Just let people build Radiators and have them take care of themselves... If you want to add difficulty to radiators just make the hospital in the North Pole or in a Desert). The usual key in the regular game was to just turn it into a barely acceptable level and keep it there.

[Feyman]

1) actually expenses on radiator pays off well in the form of happiness of staffs. you can pay bonus less often. But i agree placing radiators is rather tedious. central air conditioning system will be nice for QoL

2) yea i love to have the ability to rebuild a demolished room after earthquake.

eathquake rarely break any machine if i maintain everything well (repair AND replacement). and in case i expect a room cannot survive an earthquake, there is a button which to evacuate people inside that room. or grab the medical staff out, whcih will make patients leave as well (except ward)

i consider this micromanagement as an essential part of a business management simulator. i like it and i dont like it :))

3) will be great if this game is going to have a survival mode without level objectives like what we have seen in Theme Hospital. i always want to build a very large hospital but land resources are so limited. In the old game, objectives are always achieveable without utilizing all lands so i am not sure if i will use a 2nd floor even if z level was implemented at that time.

4) err...i cannot recall how long a patient usually stay in ward in second, but they do stay for 1 in-game day before surgery, which is quite realistic. (of course patient can walk out and be discharged from hospital right after a critical surgery is kind of a joke, which is also the central theme in Theme Hospital XD)

I see walking distance as another macromanagement in the old game.

[Sparzy]

5) Bins to be available in the corridors not just rooms.

[Aphid]

Stairs, Elevators, and Escalators are how you make multiple floors interesting. The former is very cheap, the latter very expensive to run. A hospital with more than one floor is more compact, which means walking distances are lower, which means you can have your rooms work quicker without getting distortion effects as much. That means 'percentage of time spent walking from A to B' is going to be lower.

Z-levels can potentially create logistical challenges. E.g. a patient in a hospital bed or wheelchair is forced to use an elevator.

Also... if you want to get a spatial challenge, 3-D buildings can potentially be much more confusing in layout. For example, many municipal services in older (e.g. European-style) cities are cobbled together in several repurposed monumental buildings. With different floor heights and highly bureaucratic fire department and labour laws.

The result of that is chaos and illogical layouts. Like having floor 3 be floor 5 on the other side of the building, or having a wall in the middle of a hallway so in order to get to a room on the other side you have to walk to a staircase and use a different staircase from another floor to get there. Staircases that don't cover all floors, the list goes on. There's plenty of maze-like buildings IRL.

The problem with walking distance dominating everything else in a tycoon game is that many of the game's variables become meaningless. Who cares how fast a doctor diagnoses if 1 second is spent in the diagnosis room for every 2 minutes spent walking?

About the radiator thing; Having radiators individually placed isn't too bad either, just more important is that it's a little more involved.

1) Not have to manually control radiators (it's tedious). Instead, just set a target temperature.
2) Having other heat sources/sinks means good radiator placement is affected more by hospital layout. A hallway with lots of outside windows should need more heating there. That cryogenic chamber you built should heat the surrounding area quite a lot, and so on.

[Neonivek]

Make stairs to the top floor. Logistical problem fixed... AND now you have multiple floors of "Immediate problem solved"

[Pneuma]

As much as I love TH, and as much as i'm looking forward to this game, I realised the other that I only ever really played 4-5 levels of TH and then i'd just quit. Not because I wasn't enjoying the game, but just because it quenched my thirst and I didn't need anymore. I played TH on the ps1 and I have it on GOG but in all that time i've never finished it. I hope this game can find a way of making me want to stick around until the end.