Finn and Sean romance should be an ending...

[wdmusicprod]

Sean and Finn should be able to have sex and find their beach house with coconut drinks In Puerto Lobos along with Daniel. The three of them should be able to become a family. An old gay guy's opinion.

From the Community hub:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2092625030

[Dragonrubi]

引用自 julian.varanel：

You're assuming that Finn's character would not change. If there was no need to use the idea of the heist to move the plot along, there would be no intrinsic need to keep the character as he was originally written. The only reason he's written as he is stems from the fact that they needed to have the heist happen (and go bad) one way or another. So, if you agree to doing the heist...plot plays out. If you don't, his "using" Daniel is a fail safe to get to the heist.

As for being "judgey" as you put it, in this instance, I don't judge the character, I judge the writers, who seemed quite content to gate an included piece of lgbt content behind..let's be kind and say "irresponsible behavior" and, in turn, making one of the romance options look like some villainous child manipulator. (Thanks for that, by the way.)

And, again, without getting into the motivations of purely fictional people, more time with the story would have allowed the space to find a more creative way of advancing the plot. Quite possibly avoiding the above situation entirely.

I don’t remember who told “smart readers identify with the writer, stupid readers with the characters” Always all characters have a “porpoise” in a story, but in some point also it’s fun and unavoidable to identify with them.

I see Finn as a charming cunning crocked survivalist, I would love to hang out and take a beer with him, but not lend him a penny or get involved in any kind of business with him.

Perhaps those exercises of “who’s fault is” are pointless and relative, but I find it interesting here

引用自 julian.varanel：

As for being "judgey" as you put it, in this instance, I don't judge the character, I judge the writers, who seemed quite content to gate an included piece of lgbt content behind..let's be kind and say "irresponsible behavior" and, in turn, making one of the romance options look like some villainous child manipulator. (Thanks for that, by the way.)

It could be in that way, but if you agree with the plan then is Sean’s fault, his decision.

Now most people disagree with the plan in such case, whose fault is?:

a) Stupid Daniel again, always messing up and causing trouble.
B) Yes, Finn, child manipulator, he is wise and knows better, he is very charismatic, became greedy with Daniel’s powers, knowing the influence over him easily he uses him.
C) Sean: Daniel is his responsibility and the point and trouble in ep 3 is how he is neglecting him, yet he neglects him again to have “fun” with his new girlfriend, while one of the junkies in the camp is corrupting and manipulating him to commit robbery.

I don’t see Finn flat, I see him well written and human, his attitude for Daniel changes when he saw his powers and you see him suddenly becoming greedy. He tries to convince Sean and refuses, Finn is smart knows he is not going to convince him right then, so he yields but you can smell he still has the idea and is waiting for other chance, all that money there and so easily to take with that kid.

I don’t see Finn only as a mere tool for the robbery, he is more complex than that:

He is in the middle of Daniel and Sean’s conflict, Sean is neglecting Daniel and Finn is the only one paying him attention, but at the same time Sean feels jealous of him (in part for that is easier for Finn to manipulate Daniel at the end).

Sean feelings for Finn are ambiguous (forgetting the gay part ;) ) in one hand he is jealous of him and deeply knows he is a bad influence for Daniel, but in the other he should be grateful, he loves the place and his new job and that’s thanks to Finn, and I assume with the power Finn has over Merry is good idea to Sean to stay in good terms with Finn.

Lastly when Finn talks with Sean he is wise looking the relationship Sean/Daniel, he smell the conflict among both, how both love each other, and he suggest to be more “zen” with Daniel, and the truth it was a wise advice in the moment.

[julian.varanel]

I am not addressing the characters' motivations. At all. It's about how the writers chose to advance the plot, the format that they chose to release the game in.The only motivations the characters have are the ones the writers chose to give them. Whether Daniel's a brat, whether Finn is a manipulator, whether Karen is a bad mother...none of that is germane to point I've been trying to make. Which is simply: The story could have been constructed better and in such a way as to avoid a lot of the logic gaps and illogical decisions that the characters are made to do for plot advancement purposes. Had the game had a longer play time, that would have allowed for more leeway in how the story played itself out.

[SoBeJe]

Don't forget the development of Finn character in Ep. 4.

I agree that the robbery should have had more consequences - even good consequences.

For example:
If Finn survives and Cassy is angry, Finn will come with us. If Finn dies and Cassy is angry, we'll be alone. If Finn dies and Cassy gets hurt, we'll be alone. If Cassy remains unharmed and she's our love interest, she'll come with us.

Then the decision for or against the robbery would have made more sense and the characters of Finn and Cassy would have had more substance and potential for development. We could have played three times: Alone, with Finn and with Cassy. And even as a friend or as a love interest, that would change the dialogues as well.

Both Finn and Cassy were popular and I'm sure more weight to supporting characters would have make sense in the game.

[julian.varanel]

Now that I could fully endorse. It rewards the player who puzzled out the steps to make the heist a success, builds character arcs, and would provide more opportunities for conversations and dialogue.

[Resolute]

A chance to bring a companion with you after the heist into chapter 4 would be great, but oh well.

Why do people think Cassidy is only a fling? It is stated verbally they want the relationship to continue and implied they will actually leave together that night except she gets injured. I am not sure how much this varies.

[SoBeJe]

引用自 julian.varanel：

Now that I could fully endorse. It rewards the player who puzzled out the steps to make the heist a success, builds character arcs, and would provide more opportunities for conversations and dialogue.

Yes, and if you do it wrong, unfortunately you have to continue alone :(
But then you can try to do better the next time you play :)

引用自 Resolute：

A chance to bring a companion with you after the heist into chapter 4 would be great, but oh well.

Why do people think Cassidy is only a fling? It is stated verbally they want the relationship to continue and implied they will actually leave together that night except she gets injured. I am not sure how much this varies.

I've played kissing Cassy and I've played kissing Finn. I've never heard anything from Cassy after Ep 3, but in the game I've kissed Finn I got a sweet letter from him and he told me, that he loves me. He was in hospital, couldn't walk and couldn't come with us, but said he would enjoy to help us to find Daniel, while Cassy was healthy again and ran away without a word.

It was sexier and hotter to play Cassy-Path, but romantic and deep to play Finn-Path. At least in my sessions.

[julian.varanel]

I pretty much had the same experience. Plus, I did notice the following.

There seems to be a fairly strong symbolic connection between Esteban/Karen and Finn/Cassidy.
Consider the following.

1. Both Esteban and Finn have connection to cars and vehicles. Esteban was a mechanic and Finn's father ran a chop shop he got his sons involved with. Finn offered, and seemed to value family and connections. He referenced his brothers and seemed to miss them. If you notice he had "Homesick" on his jeans. On two occasions offered Sean the chance to stay with the group and be a part of the "family". Who else valued family and connection: Esteban.

2. Cassidy during the campfire sequence states that she really doesn't want anything in her life that you would have to fight for, and iirc, specifically mentions "family". She places a value on her freedom, not wanting to get bogged down. Who else evidences this behavior: Karen. Karen gave up her family to pursue her freedom and a journey of self-discovery.

I'm not sure if the writers deliberately implemented this to show a symbolic connection or if it was an unconscious act during the writing process. If intended, perhaps it was their way of saying that we tend to become attached to romantic partners that, in some way, remind us of our parents. However it occurred, it's a subtle point I find intriguing.

[SoBeJe]

引用自 julian.varanel：

There seems to be a fairly strong symbolic connection between Esteban/Karen and Finn/Cassidy.
Consider the following.

Uff. Wow! Thank you! I didn't notice, but it makes sense.

:)

[Resolute]

I also noticed the similarities between Karen and Cassidy. This can't be a coincidence, it is a psychological thing. Finn is more like the opposite of Esteban, isn't he? Esteban was all about planning what is good and responsible for the future of your loved ones. Finn was about doing what you want right now. The others even point out that if Finn had the money for a beach house he would instantly blow it all and then be on to the next short term scheme.

If you do things slightly differently does Cassidy really seem like a fling? Maybe people don't realize Sean and Cassidy can continue to chat about their relationship while stealing a car and creeping around Merril's in the dark. They say things like it was nice to be with you and I want this to continue.

Here is Cassidy's letter. It was easy to find in my save file. She specifically wants to meet again. When Sean reads this he says he is missing her voice and her songs and ....woah dude.


https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2094674194

[SoBeJe]

Thanks for the letter. I really must have overlooked it. Or there are actually differences? Was the letter in Karen's camper? On the shelf over the bed? There was the letter from Finn.

I don't want to argue which story is nicer. I think both love stories has its own charm. And I'm happy that the dynamic between Finn and Sean is different than that beetween Cassy and Sean.

The developers could have made things easier for themselves and the stories could have gone the same way. But no, they are different. Playing both stories is more fun than if one character just replaced the other.

But I wonder why didn't Cassy go to Sean? Finn would probably have done it. He was more seriously injured. But Cassy was obviously doing better. To me that's proof that Cassy's feelings aren't that deep. Not as destructive as Finns, but not as profound either.

I don't think Finn wanted the money for himself. He couldn't stand the thought of losing Sean and Daniel. That's why he committed the robbery.

The story with the house and the coconuts should only show that Finn no longer wants to travel, but wants to settle down. Cassy, ​​on the other hand, told me that she is not someone who will settle down when I ask her if she wants to come with us.

That doesn't make her a bad figure. I really like the idea that she is such a strong female figure. That she lives her dream and does not give it up for a man. For me, Cassy is one of the best supporting characters in the game. But I also like Finn very much. And I think developers could have made more out of both.

[Dragonrubi]

引用自 SoBeJe：

I don't think Finn wanted the money for himself. He couldn't stand the thought of losing Sean and Daniel. That's why he committed the robbery.
.

There is a problem with that, when Cass and Sean find them in the house and again Finn tries to convince Sean and Finn looks he is still undecided he tells something like “You get the money go to Mexico and NEVER SEE ME AGAIN”

[Resolute]

Yes, that is in the camper. There must be lots of versions of this. I saw a different lets play. It seems there can be a letter written by Cassidy which is not romantic.

In my version, it is explained that Cassidy was released from the hospital and wanted to see him but Sean is not allowed to have any visitors. You have to blame agent Flores for this.

[Dragonrubi]

引用自 Resolute：

Yes, that is in the camper. There must be lots of versions of this. I saw a different lets play. It seems there can be a letter written by Cassidy which is not romantic.

In my version, it is explained that Cassidy was released from the hospital and wanted to see him but Sean is not allowed to have any visitors. You have to blame agent Flores for this.

Yes sounds logic, if Finn survived, when Sean finds him both are very surprised to be in the same hospital; I assume a police tactic to keep the suspects without interchanging information for better interrogation and all that.

[julian.varanel]

I suspect which version of Cassidy and Finn you see via the letters (or lack thereof) probably is based on a number of positive and negative numerical values that you accrue over time. It might even begin in Ep 2 at the market when you can compliment Cassidy's look or support Finn's quip.

[SoBeJe]

引用自 dragonrubi：

引用自 SoBeJe：

I don't think Finn wanted the money for himself. He couldn't stand the thought of losing Sean and Daniel. That's why he committed the robbery.
.

There is a problem with that, when Cass and Sean find them in the house and again Finn tries to convince Sean and Finn looks he is still undecided he tells something like “You get the money go to Mexico and NEVER SEE ME AGAIN”

Yes, this is the version, when Finn realises, that he won't get any chance with Sean, cause Sean is with Cassy, I think.

引用自 Resolute：

Yes, that is in the camper. There must be lots of versions of this. I saw a different lets play. It seems there can be a letter written by Cassidy which is not romantic.

In my version, it is explained that Cassidy was released from the hospital and wanted to see him but Sean is not allowed to have any visitors. You have to blame agent Flores for this.

Yes, this makes the game more complex as I first thought

引用自 julian.varanel：

I suspect which version of Cassidy and Finn you see via the letters (or lack thereof) probably is based on a number of positive and negative numerical values that you accrue over time. It might even begin in Ep 2 at the market when you can compliment Cassidy's look or support Finn's quip.

The reactions in the faces from Cassy and Finn changes even in that early scene depending on Sean's answer, I noticed that too.