Suppression : Was it really created to just be a major annoyance for the player?

[Zephkiel]

Let's face it : suppression is just an annoying mechanic for the player. Whatever you do/will do, this bar will just do a huge middle finger to you.
Every monster evaporate your bar far too quickly, despite you being ultra buffed in the department (or unless you have ultra specific perks).

The worst would probably be the Orgryn gunner, a 3 bullet salvo (among the lot he will throw at you) and voila, you're in the red. And wait, he is often not alone (be it other orgryn or stuff)

What baffle me, is that suppression is affected by difficulty level, and not just "damage received".
What baffle me more, is that even if you deflect an attack, you take full suppression damage.
It frustrates me that my attack are interrupted, and i stil lreceive the full cooldown. Even an interrupted charge or a jump that can't go off, or was interrupted (Your hitboxes stay on the floor, so even in the air you're susceptible to the knockback chain)
What baffle me even more, is that we're supposed to be enhanced humans in better equipment rejoicing in the purge of heretic and all of those thing, yet some lasgun from common human make us cower like a sissy.
What is really an aberration is that there is no real CC protection for the player who is alone, you can be CC'ed to death (and CC remove buff and heals), between the knockback/down, stun, slow, shock...or all that at once.

The real thing, despite that, is that it doesn't really matter for the ennemy. In a game that was sold to me as "tactical" (herm herm...) i should be able to use it against foes.
Well, really? in fact, while you technically can for show, it's almost a 0 use mechanic. Most mob will be dead before any effect can take any place. In the middle of all the crowd, one suppressed monster won't change a thing. in fact, we should strike terror in their heart (and not just the dude we're pummeling and dismembering -.-) and be imbued with glorious zeal, not the contrary, especially we're talking ennemy grunts here, wich seems to not give a damn.
All the hardest bost have a suppression bar that have 0 effect, since they are immune to CC anyway.

All that make the suppression bar something that :

- Is not tactical
- Render inoculator heal useless for god forsaken reason
- Is annoying, even infuriating, since it cause an almost total lost of control of a character, and interrupt him far too much for no reasons.
- Is happening far too often (3 seconds into a fight and bam, you're red)
- ....wich in turn makes people do their hardest to totally ignore this mechanic (with perk or specific set of stat)
- Ennemy are not really concerned with this stat, wich, de facto, only exist to punish the player.
- Is another bar ontop of the primary HP bar
- Slows the already slow game to a crawl since between every pack you'd have to wait for it to regen if you plays the game "normally" (aka not with setup that make you, for example, forego health above 50% and suppression ;) ) (or just vaporizing everything from range with the class no one should say the name)
- I really think the dev created to mess with player and not make an interesting mechanic at all. yes, it would seem i'm trolling, but considering how old is the game in reality, i see no other option.

[76561198076523484]

Suppression is working as intended.... Suppresion/morale has always been a part of the WH Franchise mechanics...

Suppresion is not a shield, it is not hitpoints....

Suppresion is a morale system, also not all classes will or should have high suppresion, melee classes should have higher suppresion than ranged...

A melee class can withstand the punishment, they are trained for it...
A ranged class should not be able to withstand as much punishment as a melee class, therefore their suppresion should be lower...

Suppresions helps against negative status effects, whether PC (player character) or NPC (Non player character)

So it is perfectly balanced that PC or NPC can lose HP (Hitpoints) without taking supression damage or alot of suppresion damage...

Example: Warhammer - Dawn of War

Morale System

In addition to a typical hitpoint system, infantry units also have morale. When in combat, squads take morale damage as well as health damage. However, morale applies to a squad as a whole. In addition to health, the morale of a squad heavily influences its combat ability. When morale drops to zero, the squad "breaks", which significantly reduces the squad's ranged accuracy, damage dealt in mêlée, and defensive capability. The squad's movement speed, however, is slightly increased to allow it to retreat. That said, the unit must still be ordered away from the combat for it to escape. The squad's morale will regenerate on its own while the squad is not in combat, and the squad will "regroup" and regain combat effectiveness once it reaches a certain threshold.

Just as with hitpoints, different types of units have different amounts of morale. Commanders have the most morale, and basic infantry usually have the least. Attaching (when possible) a commander unit to basic squads significantly increases their morale. Some weapon types, such as flamethrowers, sniper rifles and artillery bombardment, are especially effective at demoralizing the enemy. Favorable terrain such as craters, ruins or thick jungle give units a defensive cover bonus against both hitpoint and morale damage, while water and swamps will decrease their defensive ability.

So Suppresions = Morale

My character does not lose morale very easily... I have a combination of (Supression) regenration and on hit!!!

I think it is more about learning to play and understanding mechanics before making blanketing statements....

[-=Pliskin.es=-]

I think it's just about having fun with the build and gun you like, you know, for fun and if suppression make my character bounce around at the rithm of mobs without being able to actually make anything... well, it's not fun, If I have to use what other guy uses to exploit the game, it's not fun, if I have to grind like mad to get a "not so bad" item, it's not fun, If I need 50 hours of grinding to level up some levels, it's not fun.

I'm too old for this s**t, I'm not an elitist pr0g4mer without a life, I just want to have fun with a game and this one really shines at preventing me from having fun.

Good thing is that I appreciate more other ARPGs in the library, I might even go back to cartoony casual D3

And on topic, it doesn't matter what 1337 pr0g4mers dark souls lovers say, suppresion is there to f**k the player and not to be used by him/her as a proper fun tactic, that is a fact and the bast mayority of the people in the thread (one of the biggest) agree.

BTW: Did I say fun?

[SneakyErvin]

Originally posted by bubblegumblue69:

I think it is more about learning to play and understanding mechanics before making blanketing statements....

This^

I dont think the OP has actually given it a fair view or taken everything into consideration (maybe he simply havent come across the good parts yet). If he had he wouldnt claim it is a pointless mechanic versus mobs. There are item combinations that are very useful against extremely high suppression resist enemies, giving you a very good option to build around it for those special cases. Making a fight where you normally wouldnt be able to inflict any suppression based statuses into a fight where you actually inflict suppression bases statuses on a regular basis. This in turn helping your damage a great deal, to the point of a high damage buff perk.

Sure it wont be noticable much at the moment with all the bloated use of broken skills, but when those are fixed these combinations will have a major increase in damage output. Without a supression system these benefits would be give through skills on a constant basis, meaning they'd likely get removed or severely nerfed to make up for it. Now instead we have really potent gear/skill combos thanks to the suppression system.

[RhodosGuard]

Originally posted by SneakyErvin:

Originally posted by bubblegumblue69:

I think it is more about learning to play and understanding mechanics before making blanketing statements....

This^

I dont think the OP has actually given it a fair view or taken everything into consideration (maybe he simply havent come across the good parts yet). If he had he wouldnt claim it is a pointless mechanic versus mobs. There are item combinations that are very useful against extremely high suppression resist enemies, giving you a very good option to build around it for those special cases. Making a fight where you normally wouldnt be able to inflict any suppression based statuses into a fight where you actually inflict suppression bases statuses on a regular basis. This in turn helping your damage a great deal, to the point of a high damage buff perk.

Sure it wont be noticable much at the moment with all the bloated use of broken skills, but when those are fixed these combinations will have a major increase in damage output. Without a supression system these benefits would be give through skills on a constant basis, meaning they'd likely get removed or severely nerfed to make up for it. Now instead we have really potent gear/skill combos thanks to the suppression system.

Does suppression truly matter when all the endgame builds are about one-shotting enemies with crits? I doubt it.

And another argument that's bs is, that once those broken skills are fixed, other playstyles will gain something. They won't. Unless they buff them. Why do you think everyone is going for one-shots only? Because nothing else lives up to that.
I mean. The "high Suppression" Shield Attack doesnt even reduce any Champion below green. And at the point it does I'd be better off just killing them with my Combo.

Suppression is only of any importance if you dont deal enough damage, but since most builds are focused entirely on one-shots or at least high HP-Damage output, how would you ever utilize Suppression?

There's a reason why people say "death is the best cc" It's better to build on your damage and just rush through encounters by quickly killing than by widdling down their suppression.

And since, as you proudly defended often enough, defending against suppression is such a low effort "once you know how" with "just 2 skillpoints" or " a perk" or "this one arbitrary stat on an inoculator and then using a certain belt item. You can focus 90% of your build on damage. And why would I choose to waste it on suppression damage if I can just go full-on on HP Damage and kill them instantly.

Suppression doesnt kill, and getting bonus damage against cc'd enemies is irrelevant when with the same investment you can get the same damage unconditionally.

[SneakyErvin]

Originally posted by RhodosGuard:

Does suppression truly matter when all the endgame builds are about one-shotting enemies with crits? I doubt it.

And another argument that's bs is, that once those broken skills are fixed, other playstyles will gain something. They won't. Unless they buff them. Why do you think everyone is going for one-shots only? Because nothing else lives up to that.
I mean. The "high Suppression" Shield Attack doesnt even reduce any Champion below green. And at the point it does I'd be better off just killing them with my Combo.

Suppression is only of any importance if you dont deal enough damage, but since most builds are focused entirely on one-shots or at least high HP-Damage output, how would you ever utilize Suppression?

There's a reason why people say "death is the best cc" It's better to build on your damage and just rush through encounters by quickly killing than by widdling down their suppression.

And since, as you proudly defended often enough, defending against suppression is such a low effort "once you know how" with "just 2 skillpoints" or " a perk" or "this one arbitrary stat on an inoculator and then using a certain belt item. You can focus 90% of your build on damage. And why would I choose to waste it on suppression damage if I can just go full-on on HP Damage and kill them instantly.

Suppression doesnt kill, and getting bonus damage against cc'd enemies is irrelevant when with the same investment you can get the same damage unconditionally.

You really dont get it. It isnt about suppression damage at all or stripping down the enemies meter. It is about completely different mechanics that make use of your skills aswell as your gear to the point where it overshadows some of the stronger perks and skills. These things simply focus on "death is the best CC". But go ahead and think I'm talking about the stat suppression damage.

This just proves that you really dont know what the system has to offer and what there is to make use of. Pretty much what the guy said above "I think it is more about learning to play and understanding mechanics before making blanketing statements....".

That is the case for both you and OP who bullheadeadly refuse to make use of it in different ways.

[Nishven]

We went from "some ennemies, mostly Rebels, are far to powerful when it come to suppression damage" to this.

[Zephkiel]

Originally posted by SneakyErvin:

That is the case for both you and OP who bullheadeadly refuse to make use of it in different ways.

You're still understanding like... Nothing you're still a piss poor player using crutches when all i want is something to play with and unleash diversity.

Also dev confirmed that there is a problem so what's yours ?

[RhodosGuard]

Originally posted by SneakyErvin:

Originally posted by bubblegumblue69:

I think it is more about learning to play and understanding mechanics before making blanketing statements....

This^

I dont think the OP has actually given it a fair view or taken everything into consideration (maybe he simply havent come across the good parts yet). If he had he wouldnt claim it is a pointless mechanic versus mobs. There are item combinations that are very useful against extremely high suppression resist enemies, giving you a very good option to build around it for those special cases. Making a fight where you normally wouldnt be able to inflict any suppression based statuses into a fight where you actually inflict suppression bases statuses on a regular basis. This in turn helping your damage a great deal, to the point of a high damage buff perk.

You dense ♥♥♥♥.
I'm done talking to you like you had anything inside your ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ brain.
This entire ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ segment, is about how I can modify a build to apply suppression based cc. To do that I need to deal damage to their supression meter, but that would mean I would have to focus on that, and if I do that I lose pure HP damage, when I lose pure HP damage, every fight where I gain "high damage buffs" for using "suppression based cc" is going on longer than if I just focused on plain damage.

Because there are only 2 ways:
I deplete their suppression fast but dont deal a lot of damage

In that case that "high damage buff" wont help me for ♥♥♥♥ because I'm getting , I dunno, lets assume 100% damage on a damage value so low, that I deplete their suppression before they die

or
I deal good HP damage at which point I dont need to apply suppression based cc for that "high damage buff" because I drain their life at an equal pace or higher pace than their Suppression.

You insist that this system is so very deep and complex and that your 200 IQ brain can just grasp this problem better than we can.

But you are just ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ out pure ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ nonsense.

Oh sure, I can buff Suppression damage until I fart and the enemies are overwhelmed, but why, in any universe would I do that, when i can buff pure damage, fart and kill everyone?


In any case that's what the problem boils down to.
I either:

Deal more HP than Suppression Damage
or more Suppression than HP damage

In the first case I dont need CC because enemies die before I can affect them and in the second case CC doesnt matter because my DPS is too low to make the buffs I can receive be significant enough to challenge the damage I could do in case one.

I thought you were such an analytical mind?
You think you know ♥♥♥♥ but all you do is ramble and when we show you why your ramblings are retarded as ♥♥♥♥ you say you didnt say what you just said.

Your entire post was about how Suppression is sooo useful but when I say "well no it isnt because damage reigns supreme over suppression damage you ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ claim you never talked about suppression damage and now you're white-knighting this on a level where you have to contradict yourself to make this in any way appear anything near reasonable.

And I'm tired of this ♥♥♥♥.

[Zephkiel]

You should stop bothering it's clear he is not even trying to understand and just use FOTM build or broken things as crutches while ignoring the gameplay point of view.

Because let's be honest there is no depth to Martyr it's a 4 button game with very few stat i cant' fathom how people can think they are some big deal because they use crutches.

Both side are talking to a wall, we promote an engaging mechanic that should be rewarding if exploited and not only a punishment, he only talk about his e-peen and particuliar skill/perk and how pushing the tool button is leet.

[Eversor]

not being able to crit while supression is over a certain amount could help, and/or conditions on them last shorter etc

[76561198076523484]

Originally posted by RhodosGuard:

Originally posted by SneakyErvin:

This^

I dont think the OP has actually given it a fair view or taken everything into consideration (maybe he simply havent come across the good parts yet). If he had he wouldnt claim it is a pointless mechanic versus mobs. There are item combinations that are very useful against extremely high suppression resist enemies, giving you a very good option to build around it for those special cases. Making a fight where you normally wouldnt be able to inflict any suppression based statuses into a fight where you actually inflict suppression bases statuses on a regular basis. This in turn helping your damage a great deal, to the point of a high damage buff perk.

You dense ♥♥♥♥.
I'm done talking to you like you had anything inside your ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ brain.
This entire ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ segment, is about how I can modify a build to apply suppression based cc. To do that I need to deal damage to their supression meter, but that would mean I would have to focus on that, and if I do that I lose pure HP damage, when I lose pure HP damage, every fight where I gain "high damage buffs" for using "suppression based cc" is going on longer than if I just focused on plain damage.

Because there are only 2 ways:
I deplete their suppression fast but dont deal a lot of damage

In that case that "high damage buff" wont help me for ♥♥♥♥ because I'm getting , I dunno, lets assume 100% damage on a damage value so low, that I deplete their suppression before they die

or
I deal good HP damage at which point I dont need to apply suppression based cc for that "high damage buff" because I drain their life at an equal pace or higher pace than their Suppression.

You insisting that this system is so very deep and complex and that your 200 IQ brain can just grasp this problem better than we can.

But you are just ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ out pure ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ nonsense.

Oh sure, I can buff Suppression damage until I fart and the enemies are overwhelmed, but why, in any universe would I do that, when i can buff pure damage, fart and kill everyone?


In any case that's what the problem boils down to.
I either:

Deal more HP than Suppression Damage
or more Suppression than HP damage

In the first case I dont need CC because enemies die before I can affect them and in the second case CC doesnt matter because my DPS is too low to make the buffs I can receive be significant enough to challenge the damage I could do in case one.

I thought you were such an analytical mind?
You think you know ♥♥♥♥ but all you do is ramble and when we show you why your ramblings are retarded as ♥♥♥♥ you say you didnt say what you just said.

Your entire post was about how Suppression is sooo useful but when I say "well no it isnt because damage reigns supreme over suppression damage you ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ claim you never talked about suppression damage and now you're white-knighting this on a level where you have to contradict yourself to make this in any way appear anything near reasonable.

And I'm tired of this ♥♥♥♥.

Just seems to me that you dont actually understand the game and/or mechanics...

I doubt that there is ever a reason to go for pure supression damage... Pure HP damage builds are where it is at offcourse, the aim is to kill the enemy and not bring them into submission before death...

Supression is there to reduce CC effects... I will however admit that I understand where you are coming from in the sense that the mechanic seems useless because you can just ho kill mobs, this i think is a bit of a design flaw... I think that to balance it out a bit more Neocore will need to increase mob hp by x3 to allow for more involved gameplay and full mechanics use.

This way party value will also come more into play, where say for example you would have one team member have a supression killing build to allow the rest of the team to focus on damage builds.

I know that WH40K Martyr has some poor design flaws when it comes to balance, all I am trying to point out is that the mechanics and their role are solid... as for the balance and how everything plays into it are somewhat flawed...

I agree that mob kills are too easy... but this is because NPC have too low HP vs Player DPS

I think I will start a new thread to the devs about game balance because currently it is very poor... I like a challenge and the stages would have more value if you couldnt just rush through and one shot most things...

There is almost no challenge in my opinion...

Find a balance between NPC HP and Player DPS has always been a tough one for most ARPGames...

If the DEVS of WH40K Martyr would take some pointers the game could be great... but ye, that remains to be seen...

Game is not even 1 month old so I will give it another 2 months before i make a final decision to quit playing or to carry on...

[Brother PaciFist]

Suppression in warhammer 40k works in a totally different way. You have no suppresssion hitpoint bar. You do not regenerate suppression. You have 3 states. Suppressed Semisuppresed. not suppressed.

You have two units of infantry. You use one unit to lay down suppression on a target unit. You role your suppression roll. Your roll decides if the unit is semisuppressed or fully suppressed. Semi suppressed means the unit can shoot back but not move. Full suppressed means the unit is pinned, cant move, cant shoot back. It is like a real firefight. Because people fear death they will not show their head when under fire.

You suppress an area or a unit in cover. You can not suppress with a single character. You need several units to lay down suppressive fire. Some weapons can do suppressive fire as single unit. Like the flame thrower or the heavy bolter or the storm cannon.

If you say suppression = morale you have a different term. Suppression /= morale. Suppression is linked to suppression fire and is a real life fire fight tactic.

Does not work against units that are fear immune, like Terminators, Assault Space marines, Banshees and Hero units. Now it gets interesting. Inquisitors are hero units. FEAR IMMUNE. Suppression fire from small weapons does not apply to them. They can only be suppressed by the really big guys. But that would be insane. Oh chaos baneblade sensai does suppression fire at that inquisitor. What ? Why don't you just shoot it? Hmmm no i want to suppress the Inquisitor my dear. You see why some people crinch when they see inquisitors in fear^^. Inquisitors are something like the bastion of humanity against Chaos and Xenos. The last stand, the very foundation, the avatar of resistance. That covers in fear before some chaos cultists with autoguns.

Assassins are fear immune too, thanks to some really good combat drugs. I know we dont play a real assassin here. But the name is similar.

A morale test must be done if one side reaches a certain amount of points/losses. You come close to loosing you do a morale test. If you loose your morale test your units are rooting. You loose the match.

I aggree there has to be a control effect mechanic in the game and it is cool that there is a morale system suppression system in the game. But it shoot _edit:should not take the fun out of the game. You get too much suppression damage in the open for a smooth gameplay and you have too few cover or usefull cover to apply all Martyr gameplay mechanics to get a fun gameplay. You can work around it yes, but still it is quite harsh.

The suppression damage is mostly important in red missions. And red missions should be hard. It should not get a problem for small characters in low level that do green missions. Dont balance the red missions and make the greens impossible for low characters. Not everyone is an elitist that uses the most optimal builds possible. Some just want to play the game for fun.

It is a very bad idea to balance the difficulty globally. If you change the stats to balance red missions, low characters could be effected in a very bad way. And they dont have the tools to deal with it. That gives a very bad impression of the game for beginners.

Have fun.

[76561198076523484]

Originally posted by Brother PaciFist:

Suppression in warhammer 40k works in a totally different way. You have no suppresssion hitpoint bar.

You have two units of infantry. You use one unit to lay down suppression on a target unit. You role your suppression roll. Your roll decides if the unit is semisuppressed or fully suppressed. Semi suppressed means the unit can shoot back but not move. Full suppressed means the unit is pinned, cant move, cant shoot back. It is like a real firefight. Because people fear death they will not show their head when under fire.

You suppress an area or a unit in cover. You can not suppress with a single character. You need several units to lay down suppressive fire. Some weapons can do suppressive fire as single unit.

If you say suppression = morale you have a different term. Suppression /= morale. Suppression is linked to suppression fire and is a real life fire fight tactic.

Does not work against units that are fear immune, like Terminators, Assault Space marines, Banshees and Hero units. Now it gets interesting. Inquisitors are hero units. FEAR IMMUNE.

A morale test must be done if one side reaches a certain amount of points/losses. You come close to loosing you do a morale test. If you loose your morale test your units are rooting. You loose the match.

I fully understand and agree... however we must take into consideration that to apply this mechanic into the game as a usable mechanic it has/had to be tweaked slightly..

But yes supression fire is to keep the enemy low or locked in while other units move in from the side or get ready to mortar etc...

But for a game mechanic the way WH40K Martyr has it intended use for is perfect... I think mobs just need x2-3 times their current hitpoints... because this will stop 1 shot kill builds, will increase fight time which means more fun time... also this will allow the supression mechanic to come into play better...

Example i can give is this...

Currenlty it is something like this...

Small MOB
HP = 500
SUPRESSION = 500

Big MOB
HP = 1500
SUPRESSION = 1000
It is easier to just kill him and supression doesnt even matter because you can 1-2 hit him... this....

With hogher HP pools supression would have some meaning and dps builds will become less effective..

So sugestion is...

Small MOB
HP = 1500
SUPRESSION = 500

Big MOB
HP = 4500
SUPRESSION = 1000

Well from playing many hours that just feels like the bet adjustment...

And they need to increase XP gains from missions by 2-3 also....

[Kit10]

Not to interrupt this exciting discussion of yours, but I'd like to reply to OP's statement: I get why you're annoyed with suppression mechanics, I really do. Mostly because it is annoying for me too.

Although, I can guess the reasoning behind it. Looks like this is how devs wanted players to think about something else than just raw DPS when making up builds. And, as someone said earlier, suppression/morale system is a common thing in w40k, so why not used it, right? Well... IMHO it went sideways.

I mean, PoE does much better job at forcing players to think about their defensive stats even without some specific dedicated mechanic. Same can be said about Grim Dawn for example. In Martyr though, it feels.. donno, artificial? Probably it may still work, but this whole suppression stuff needs some serious tweaks, because for now it's just "give up one of your perk slots" or "waste some skill points on suppression-related passives". Tactical? Nope. Fun? Hell no. Annoying? No doubt.

Speaking of enemies suppression bars - this is just ridiculous, for real. Again, as someone said earlier, death is the best form of CC, so as far as I'm concerned - you can actually CC nothing but trash in this game, and since trash is by definition easy to deal with - I'd rather go for raw damage vs elites/bosses.

As for suggestions on fixing those problems, from the top of my head I can only advice devs (game-designers rather) to somehow make it easier to 1. understand what affects suppression and 2. capitalize on suppression level. For now I bet most of the players don't have a slightest clue why they are at max suppression 90% of the time and then suddenly at zero in a second (and how to deal with it) - this mechanic should be better explained and tuned to show players that it's working all the time, instead of just creating "oh shirt" moments. As for making suppression damage viable - well, the most obvious change would be reducing target's resistances (dodge? deflect? armor?) and damage (accuracy?) on lower suppression. Yet again, this would require better explanation of suppression damage and most definitely - more distinct ways to affect it.

Bottom line, I think suppression is a nice and unique (to w40k) mechanic, which is poorly executed for now, and I can only hope that devs will find time to get back to it. After fixing the bugs. Please fix them first. Please.

P.S. giving random enemies random mods (like in Diablo 2 or PoE) would be a great way to make suppression matter even more. Like the mod "double suppression", or "suppression dmg immune", etc.

[Brother PaciFist]

I edited my last post sorry.

Yeah that makes survival build harder to build and pure dps builds easier to play in the game now. DPS race takes the suppression damage out of the picture. Survival needs more skill points to be able to resist or regenerate the suppression damage to achieve the same goal = clear speed. With a crit build you can 1 hit ko leman russ tanks. So no tank no suppression. And when you play a dps character you can not even think that suppression might be a problem now in Martyr. What suppression, everything is dead in a second or two, what are you talking about? learn to play!

We now dont need tanks in singleplayer. Pure dps is the best way. Some survibility is not bad so. The augmented body crusader plays really smooth. You just have to invest huge amount of skill points to make it work. You could just take dps stats to reach the same goal.