Morality System...what to choose?

[Crash]

Did someone play with this?
What would be best for an Crusader?
For Psyker and for assassin ?!

[Burusagi]

Puritan unless a niche Psyker build AFAIK.

[Crash]

Originally posted by Alcohol Fueled Brewtality:

Puritan unless a niche Psyker build AFAIK.

I took Puritan for Crusader.
So Radical for Psyker?

[Ryvucz]

I choose exactly what my moral compass goes by.

Why don't you?

[Kel'Ithra]

If you go by min max.... puritan.
If you tend to play and sort of have a specific view of how your Inquisitor would behave, then go by your inquisitors or your own moral compass as stated above. I go by how I perceive the inquisitor would behave and see things as my character...

[Homer Morisson]

Originally posted by Ryvucz:

I choose exactly what my moral compass goes by.

Why don't you?

I prefer to play like that as well, but the general consensus seems to be that the radical perks are much less useful than the puritan ones, which means that playing like you suggest can actually punish you with less useful skills -- and if it's really like that, it would indeed be bad game design.

I'll reserve judgement until I have had an opportunity to verify this myself.

[Morgk]

Is there option if I'll change my mind to choose other side later?

[▪ — GAiNZ — ▪]

Originally posted by Mørgk:

Is there option if I'll change my mind to choose other side later?

not at the moment, there was a dev comment somewhere stating something like they are waiting to see more data on what players are doing

[Ryvucz]

Originally posted by Homer Morisson:

Originally posted by Ryvucz:

I choose exactly what my moral compass goes by.

Why don't you?

I prefer to play like that as well, but the general consensus seems to be that the radical perks are much less useful than the puritan ones, which means that playing like you suggest can actually punish you with less useful skills -- and if it's really like that, it would indeed be bad game design.

I'll reserve judgement until I have had an opportunity to verify this myself.

The game will gimp you if you choose your morals.

It heavily rewards roleplayers (WarHammer lore-wise) and min/maxers.

Warp take them.

[Beldhan]

yes i found the bonus of the puritan against radical too advantageous for the puritan...
i means they get a flat +5% damage against all type of enemy and a +20% against daemon.
worst, no one of them skill do have a downside, when in radical, you get +10% of warp damage (only used by psycher right now) while getting -10% of warp resistance.

i feel the talent need to be changed a bit
by example, daemon damage boost must be a radical thing, since they learn everything to know about demon for fight them better... it make more sense for them to know more about daemon, than puritan that simply kill them at sight.

same add a talent that increase only damage for one of the class of the game is bad by design...
right now, if you don't play psyker you have no reason to go radical.

ps: i want to explain a bit more why i feel the +5% against xeno, chaos and renegade is a +5% of damage against all type of enemy. normally we will not fight loyalist... as inquisitor we have no reason to face royalist, any member of the imperium attacking an inquisitor is a renegade....
all alien race: tyranids, eldar, ork, tau, necron,... are Xenos... when they will be added it will be a +5% of damage against them.
finally chaos: any chapter of chaos space marine or daemon of the chaos are chaos... means another +5%....

we have no enemy that don't fit any of this three category. it was simpler to say, +5% against any enemy of the imperium... worst, with the daemon boost puritan get +25% of damage against daemon of the chaos (well all daemon are of the chaos)

right now, you have no reason to go radical, the boost are too limited or bad designed for be worth the investement of point, yes you can choose this for roleplay, but i doubt anyone will invest point into radical point. especially the +10% of warp damage and -10% of war resistance passive that can be killing against enemy psyker.

[Burusagi]

Originally posted by Beldhan:

you get +10% of warp damage (only used by psycher right now) while getting -10% of warp resistance.

That's really dumb. I feel like going down the Radical path should give you more defenses against the Warp, as to allow the Psyker to stay at 100% Warp Heat for longer and stuff.

[Beldhan]

Originally posted by Alcohol Fueled Brewtality:

Originally posted by Beldhan:

you get +10% of warp damage (only used by psycher right now) while getting -10% of warp resistance.

That's really dumb. I feel like going down the Radical path should give you more defenses against the Warp, as to allow the Psyker to stay at 100% Warp Heat for longer and stuff.

i feel the radical path will awaken some psyker capacity for the one choosing it... and for the psyker one, unlock some special spell... but no... right now radical is weak in comparaison of the puritan... i gonna do a comparaison passive per passive

[Beldhan]

ok here the radical/puritan path bonus:
for 50 in radical: +10% of warp damage (only psyker use this damage type)
for 50 in purital: +10% of warp resistance

for 100 in both you unlock the 4 first passive of the skill tree for both

for 150 you unlock puritan/radical perk (who are not yet in game)

for 250 you unlock the last 3 passive of the skill tree for both

for 300 you unlock for the puritan the holy and for the radical the demonforged item enchantement (not unheard for a demonforged equipement to be used some weapon used by the space marine was chaos weapon before be reforged then who know)

now for the skill tree, let begin with the puritan first:

- Hater: +5% of damage against xeno, chaos and renegade enemies (like said before means everyone that fight an inquisitor)

- Warp Thorn: incoming attack with warp damage are reflected to the attacker, dealing 30% of the original damage (ermm.... why this is not is not in the radical path?)

- Daemonic Lore: +20% against the daemon enemies.... (another radical path passive!)

- Holy rage: taking warp damage create a holy rage effect for 3 sec that bestow +20% of warp resistance and +5% of damage, don't stack.

that was the 4 passive skill... if we look into it... if we fight a daemon psyker (what will happend with slanesh and tzench daemon) we will get a flat +30% of damage! insane! without forget the +20% of warp resistance and the fact that every damage of warp type are reflected back!

now let's go for see the amazing radical 4 passive:

- touched by empyrean: +10% of warp damage but -10% of warp resistance (erm why radical do get a bad side in is passive when puritan don't?, plus this damage type is only used by psyker!)

- oblationist penance: 3% chance of reflect incoming attack to the attacker with warp damage type (ok here is all the damage... but 3%? seriously? when puritan can reflect all warp damage?)

- warp adaption: incoming warp damage has a 10% chance to heal you instead of harming you

- Forbidden knowledge: +1% damage after every other acquired skill from the radical path... (yes it means +7% of damage if you take all the passive.)

like you can see, many of the radical path passive are extremely low chance random effect, when puritan are flat bonus that are extremely potent against most enemy and more against psyker (one of the most dangerous enemy actually)

now let's go with the second tier of passive from the skill tree, puritan first:

- Holy shield: incoming attacks from Xenos, Chaos and renegade deal 5% less damage.... yes you read right a +5% of damage reduction againts all the enemy

- Holy conclave: +4% of maximum health and +2% of damage to you and nearby allies (stack with other players conclave).... means a group of 4 puritan will get +16% hp and +8% damage, insane!

- Monodominant commandments: Each killed daemon bestows +20% health regeneration and +20% of suppression regeneration for 5 seconds.... really?

now let's go see the radical....

- Soul harvest ritual: each killed enemy creates a harvested soul bonus (stack 10 times) that bestows +10% of critical hit strenght. a succesfull critical hit remove all instances of the harvested soul bonus... means a character with high critical chance will rarely see more than 1-2 stack at the time...

- Blood Focus: Taking any damage creates a blood focus effect that bestows +5% of damage for 1 second (does not stack) ....seriously?

- Radical Istvaanism: Provide bonus to damage proportional to the amount of missing heathl (to a maximum of 10%) ... *facepalms*

do i need to explain what don't go right?

Puritan bonus are flat bonus that will provide real advantage ALL the time for any class...
Radical have extremely random bonus that have extremely high cost for a small return invest any point in the radical path is simply a loose of skill point that can be invested in better skill.

right now, i feel puritan receive reward for choose this dogme while radical have really no advantage to take this... path.

both skill tree, need a massive rework and rebalance... a lot of the skill from the puritan are clearly radical skill... like warp thorn or daemon knowledge. the three tier 2 skill of the puritan are monster skill, no one in his right mind will not take them, they are insanely good.
when radical path, none is worth the point into it.

i want to know why the radical path get downside to choose this way? why do we get skill that recquire us to be at low life for get +10% of damage, when the radical path is the pragmatic path, people that instead to follow the dogme, will use any means and any way for sure victory. not use random advantage for get a maybe victory, when puritan offer sure victory with this passive.

[Avenger93]

Originally posted by Beldhan:

a lot of the skill from the puritan are clearly radical skill...
.

Implying faith is not how the sisters of battle and other faithfull servants of the Emperor can deny the witch and make their tainted powers turn on themselves. Implying hexagramic wards aren't a thing puritans have researched since the dawn of this conflict to protect themselves, their holdings and to banish the manifestations of the Empyrean. Implying demons are not constructs of the warp and enough faith, zeal, willpower and raw beliefe in the self's ability to harm them isn't a factor to determine how effective your weapons are against them. me thinks you need to get some in depth lore studies done, because nothing on the puritan side is radical in any way, it's exactly Puritan in nature. I mean ffs, Grey Knights? Ordo Maleus anyone? The Demonhunters, the most puritan incoruptible souls in the Imperium who study and train to fight demons and only demons and to banish even demon primarchs back to the warp, and you say demon lore doesn't fit the lore of puritan? Seriously?

As for Warp Thorn: again, faith in 40k works like that. Hate the witch with enough conviction and with the proper warding seals on your flesh you can see their ruinous powers arc back at them. Nothing new here.

Seems to me a lot of people on these forums confuse Puritan Inquisitors for Ecclesiarchy preachers. That could not be further from the truth.

I will give you one thing: Daemonic Lore should be a 20% for melee 5-10% for ranged. Because as explained in many places in the lore: a melee weapon is a conduit for your willpower, you hold it and infuse it with your conviction and zeal to strike down the hated aberation. A ranged weapon fires at the target, and that loss of contact between the self and projectile makes them less effective at harming them.

As for the lore: again, the radical tree is mostly lore accurate. You do not become resistant to the warp by embracing it, chaos corrupts, it's touch taints the spirit and weakes the mental and spiritual resilience of an individual until the day he falls prey to the taint he has invited into his soul. So it makes sense that the more you embrace the warp and use it to fuel you, the more vulnerable you become to it. That said, it should be 10% all damage. Not just warp damage. The warp can infuse flesh and enhance muscles as well, it can enhance sight. There are many forms the tainted gifts of chaos can take, many signs by which the mutant and heretic can be identified.

Oblationist Penance needs a buff and not much else.

Forbidden knowledge is the absoute worst skill in the game no question. But still fits from a lore perspective.

Warp Adaptation is fine. Maybe a little buff, but it's fine, of course the tainted patrons of the warp would sometimes protect their new soon to be devout slave.

Soul harvest is a good perk already. Situational, but good. Not a priority to rework before OTHERS.

Blood Focus is again trash and needs a more ... khornate rework.

Radical Istvaanism is the one that has no relation to the lore.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Istvaanism

basicaly, they are the *cough* pragmatic *cough* according some people on this forum who don't know what pragmatic means warmongers who create conflict within the imperium, foster rebellion and even aid cults to form so they can start a war to "clease the weak" and thus strenghten the Imperium by ... wasting it's resources on pointless wars instead of doing their job as inquisitors to prevent it. Also they are named after the singular event that started the Horus Heresy AND that conflict caused no progress but in fact set the Imperium back for millenia and destroyed mankind's dream of a galaxy under it's control. Can you see again why I think anyone who says radicals are pragmatic and the "good" guys are morons? Almost all the radical sects are pants on head retarded and hypocritical or just into useless ocultist crap that most likely corrupts them anyway, with the only SANE ones being the Seculos Attendous and the Xeno Hybris. In 14 sects, 2 ok ones and several pants on head chaos worshipers in denial ones mixed with a useless rest is not a good track record. Puritans have 5 sects, but none of them are directly harmfull to mankind's survival, and most serve to help that goal. Even the monodominants.

But yeah, the perk does not reflect them that much and is much too weak in it's current state. As misguided and stupid as they are, they don't directly want to destroy the Imperium so maybe base it on supression with a bigger buff? Or better yet, on number of enemies in a given range.

EDIT: but seriously, RADICALS ARE NOT PRAGMATIST! PURITANS ARE NOT DOGMATIC ECCLESIARCHY! ♥♥♥♥'s sake read the lore you people. You're spouting this same stupid meme with no context or understanding on how the sects work.

radicals are the stupid inbred morons who think wasting resources on pointless conflicts they create by fostering rebellion and sedition up to and including CHAOS CULTS/INCUSRIONS is a GOOD THING (Istvaanians, named after and revering the even that almost destroyed the Imperium and caused this regression to begin with) thus directly weakening the Imperium and helping the agenda of chaos. They are the pants on head idiots who think the same power that corrupted Horus and almost destroyed the Imperium can be used to save it (Horusians ... their name alone speaks volumes)... because that's how the warp works ... it doesn't corrupt and make a slave of you. They are the dumb people who think using CHAOS artifacts that taint your soul and seek to corrupt you just by looking at them is a GREAT ideea (Xanthians), and Radicals are also the groups that gave birth to the one and ONLY attempt by the Inquisition to take over the Imperium (Phaenonites). But sure, tell me more about how radicals are the "pragmatists" and the Puritans are just Ecclesiarchy rabble 2.0 now with more shiny suits.

[Teep]

dps - radical. tanky - puritan

[Burusagi]

Originally posted by Teep:

dps - radical. tanky - puritan

So wrong. Soooo wrong. lol.