Shooting and moving.

[DerpToll]

I'm loving the game so far, but some of the basic stuff seems off. There is a skill, or perk, called run and gun, but i cant seem to stay moving and shooting. Is it just me, or can you only shoot while standing still? That seems wildly wrong to me if so. I'm not looking to move full speed, but an inquisitor should be able to walk back and fire at the same time, without it being a weapon ability.

I also think the movement needs a little help. I think I should have the option to turn off mouse click and move. Too many times im trying to move and shoot, only to have my guy start to run forward because i mis-clicked on the floor. If the mouse was only for attacking and interaction, this wouldnt be a problem.

[Darth Revan]

This is an ARPG, not a twin stick shooter. Only be able to shoot while standing still is pretty much standard at ARPG's so you will never be able to run and gun without to use a weapon ability in this game.

I have never used that ability so i dont know how it works.

Again, this is an ARPG, move by click is standard for ARPG's, you can also move with WASD ( i dont know if this are the standard keys for this). Sadly i also dont know if you can disable move by click or if it is disables while you use WASD so hopefully someone who knows this will answer here. :)

[Evaliss]

You can actually turn off movement by mouse entirely. It's in the Gameplay options tab.
Default keyboard movement keys are the arrow keys, but you can rebind them to any keys you'd like.
You'll still have to stop to attack, which your character does automatically when you use an attack ability, but I personally find it much easier to control my character without the mouse movement. :)

Though I just *have* to ask, since the ARPG > Twin Stick Shooter arguement is so prevalent on this forum - what exactly is it about more mobility or a more fluid combat pace that is so incompatible with the ARPG formula?
The game might be set in an universe where any kind of innovation is tantamount to heresy, but that's a pretty poor arguement for the *game* not to make any attempts at innovation. I honestly just don't get it. D:

[Brother PaciFist]

@Panda The action rpg formula is rather old. Your example of innovation is heresy is nonsense. Warhammer 40k table top has shooting on the move rules. Most units in warhammer 40k are elite soldiers that know how to fire a weapon on the move. Units in warhammer40k have a movement phase and a shooting phase. So they shoot and move in 1 turn. Applied to a real time game this would mean shooting and moving at the same time.

Inquisitors we play are elite units, heroes too. So they should know how to fire weapons on the move. There are weapons that have to stop to aim and shoot. Like heavy bolters (even they could be fired on the move with penalties), rocket launcher, laser cannons. Your aim, accuracy, stability is horrible while scoot & shooting heavy weapons. Melee weapon can be used while moving all the time. Would be nonsensical to not be able to swing a weapon on the move.

So I do not want the game to become a twin stick shooter. I said some parts of the twin stick shooter genre, like fluid combat, scoot and shoot, deadly combat, no hp bloat would be worth to perhaps implement. Twin stick shooter have no inventory management or loot or xp for the most part. So i do not want Martyr to become a complete twin stick shooter. Just some mechanics would be interesting to think about.

Shoot and move would make the game more accessible, the combat would become more fluid and perhaps more fun to play. The main critic point about the combat system in martyr i read about on the webs is that it is clunky. Rigid not fluid not fast paced slow etc. Perhaps it would be correct to take some steps to make it easier to digest for many people.

I hope this explanation is satisfying.

Have a nice day.

[Boris the Bullet Dodger]

Go into options, turn off move on mouse click. Job sorted.

Other than that, some 2h weapons you can "fall back and fire". You need to learn how to kite enemies. Clear out each area you move through. In the event you hit a blob with 5-10 ogryns just run back shoot, run back shoot and rinse/repeat until dead. Kiting is your friend.

[Evaliss]

Originally posted by Brother PaciFist:

@Panda The action rpg formula is rather old. Your example of innovation is heresy is nonsense. Warhammer 40k table top has shooting on the move rules. Most units in warhammer 40k are elite soldiers that know how to fire a weapon on the move. Units in warhammer40k have a movement phase and a shooting phase. So they shoot and move in 1 turn. Applied to a real time game this would mean shooting and moving at the same time.

Inquisitors we play are elite units, heroes too. So they should know how to fire weapons on the move. There are weapons that have to stop to aim and shoot. Like heavy bolters (even they could be fired on the move with penalties), rocket launcher, laser cannons. Your aim, accuracy, stability is horrible while scoot & shooting heavy weapons. Melee weapon can be used while moving all the time. Would be nonsensical to not be able to swing a weapon on the move.

So I do not want the game to become a twin stick shooter. I said some parts of the twin stick shooter genre, like fluid combat, scoot and shoot, deadly combat, no hp bloat would be worth to perhaps implement. Twin stick shooter have no inventory management or loot or xp for the most part. So i do not want Martyr to become a complete twin stick shooter. Just some mechanics would be interesting to think about.

Shoot and move would make the game more accessible, the combat would become more fluid and perhaps more fun to play. The main critic point about the combat system in martyr i read about on the webs is that it is clunky. Rigid not fluid not fast paced slow etc. Perhaps it would be correct to take some steps to make it easier to digest for many people.

I hope this explanation is satisfying.

Have a nice day.

The case that you make is perfectly clear, but I can't help but think you've completely misunderstood what I wrote, since you seem to be implying that I hold the opposite opinion. D:

[Hefutoxin]

Originally posted by Pandalicious:

Though I just *have* to ask, since the ARPG > Twin Stick Shooter arguement is so prevalent on this forum - what exactly is it about more mobility or a more fluid combat pace that is so incompatible with the ARPG formula?

I've never played a twin stick shooter that wasn't awkward as hell to look at. The contol may be more fluid but how they display are ridiculously stiff.

When you are playing this game, stand in a single spot and slowly circle your cursor around your character. That clunky two-step you do? That's a natural movement. Now do the same in any twin stick. You either get the weightless gun ballet or greased turret.

Good luck unseeing that.

[Brother PaciFist]

Originally posted by Pandalicious:

Originally posted by Brother PaciFist:

@Panda ...
Have a nice day.

The case that you make is perfectly clear, but I can't help but think you've completely misunderstood what I wrote, since you seem to be implying that I hold the opposite opinion. D:

Yes i had the impression while reading.

The rest of the text was my opinion about the matter. I tried to give indepth explanation why i think scoot and move for some weapons would benefit the game.

The existing gameplay is not that bad. If you are good at stutter stepping you can still get plenty of shots off while moving.

Have fun.

[rainman [scout marine]]

Originally posted by Pandalicious:

Though I just *have* to ask, since the ARPG > Twin Stick Shooter arguement is so prevalent on this forum - what exactly is it about more mobility or a more fluid combat pace that is so incompatible with the ARPG formula?
The game might be set in an universe where any kind of innovation is tantamount to heresy, but that's a pretty poor arguement for the *game* not to make any attempts at innovation. I honestly just don't get it. D:

I want to congratulate you on correctly identifying what is definitely NOT an argument of any sort, but just random words parrotted by gamers trying to look smart.
It's like a coleague once told me: Uber is more expensive than other means of transport, because they have a dynamic tarrif.
Philosophically, it's called a non-sequitur, because the supposed argument has nothing to do with the idea it alegedly supports.
Of course an ARPG can be controled from the keyboard and not the mouse!
In the same paradigm is the "argument" that I heard throughout my childhood:
A: In BroodWar, Protoss is the hardest race to play!
B: But they have the lowest APM, the lowest number of units, the least micro-management necessary, the most endurable units....
A: But their units COST THE MOST !!!!111

As if having 2 beefy units to control is HARDER than having 100 paper units to control.

I just love the fact that the gaming community is becoming less and less autistic about their reasoning, thinking for themselves instead of repeating the holy gospels of the devs or the pro gamers.

[Deadushka]

Originally posted by DerpToll:

I'm loving the game so far, but some of the basic stuff seems off. There is a skill, or perk, called run and gun, but i cant seem to stay moving and shooting. Is it just me, or can you only shoot while standing still? That seems wildly wrong to me if so. I'm not looking to move full speed, but an inquisitor should be able to walk back and fire at the same time, without it being a weapon ability.

I also think the movement needs a little help. I think I should have the option to turn off mouse click and move. Too many times im trying to move and shoot, only to have my guy start to run forward because i mis-clicked on the floor. If the mouse was only for attacking and interaction, this wouldnt be a problem.

there is few guns that shoot and run by lmb like flamer or with 1-2 button skill like bolter and ect.
Also you can change movement in game settings to WASD from clicking

[Psojed]

I believe only the Autogun, Heavy Bolter (Crusader only), Heavy Flamer (Crusader only) and Needler Sniper Rifle (Assasin only) have a run and gun type of skill.

There are more passives like that. Passives that have very niche use or are outright bad or in the wrong place in a tree. You'll get used to it :)

[patomanofallcolors]

some weapons you can, the flamer definatly (both forward and back and is OP weapon)

And a sniper rifle a ability shoots and your character backs up.

In the game moving and shooting with allot guns doesn't work with the whole being a diablo thing, a pet peve of mine is that the weapons sometimes seem to be centered around abilites for gameplay, which dont make sense from lore or realisum.

might be too late because it is set but having things less diabloesq

[RocK_M]

IIRC the only weapon you can fire and walk at the same time is the Heavy Flamer as you will walk in range on it's base attack and if you are a Radical like me and choose to go controller you just press "A" and walk on your merry way creating a path forward with Promethium!

The rest will require either stutter stepping or using the Fall Back type skills (Heavy Bolter, Heavy Flamer, Autogun, Needler Rifle) and Advance Skills (AutoPistol)

[Millor]

I've been dying for a WASD movement "twin stick" shooter style ARPG for so long and it's such a basic idea and great one since both styles of game have completely separate reasons for why they're so fun, so merging them seems like a no brainer. One day maybe.

[Psojed]

The Autopistol and Heavy Bolter have a skill called Disengage, which moves you backwards while firing.