Starting perks(+psychic powers)

[Gorwe]

Right, I just wanted to discuss the value of starting perks, psychic powers, that kind of thing. So, let's go in an alphabetic order.

ASSASSIN:

Eradicator: The "Tactical Mastery" is a good choice because it gives you options AND it changes how you play. While I don't think a Sniper Rifle is a good choice to start with(too static for an Eradicator ; double Pistols of sorts would be much better imo), it's servicable. The starting armor is possibly the best starting armor, but it don't really fit Eradicator, the mirror image one would suit it much better.

Infiltrator: Its starting perk(+3% Dodge / Surprise ; forgot the name) is naturally quite good and the startin weapons are very good. Though I don't think the Stealth Armor really suits it, even if I get what they were going after(Striking Scorpion! <3), the Eradicator Armor suits it MUCH BETTER.

Sniper: Its starting perk(+20% Dmg for 2s on move stop) is actually quite misaligned with the nature of a Sniper(her Aimed Shot can end up outside of this window lol) AND it is not unique(it is much better suited to stutter stepping Tactician, naturally). Something like "free crit every 10s"(or something "on combat start") would be MUCH BETTER. The Holo Armor isn't anything special either, the Stealth Armor gives you a much better amount of control. Her secondary armament could also be changed to Laspistols(or something), the Autopistols are too melee for a true "Sniper" playstyle.

CRUSADER:

Assault: The Rabble Slayer(+20% melee dmg while 3 enemies present) is garbage. It should just be always active. If we factor in other Crusader's bonuses, Tactician gets practically a constant +20% dmg while the Gunner gets a very easy +20% too(and it can reach ridiculous levels or be +0%). Further, it don't really help assault in any way. It should just be "+20-30% melee damage"(either of those though +25% could work too). Everything else is just fine even if the Shield is a gimmick.

Heavy Gunner: The troubles of its preferred weapons aside, the starting perk is just fine(it even works with melee only to laugh in Assault's face I guess), the weapons too, but I don't think the armor really fits him. He's supposed to be big on Area Denial / Control, why not just show that to players from the get go by giving him the Heavy Bolter armor?

Tactician: Nothing to report here, a very fun class ; I'd just swap its and HG's armor. Quick, decisive moves are practically what the Tact should be about.

PSYKER: (the Psyker has the best armor effects imo)

Aetherwalker: The starting perk is quite possibly the strongest starting unique perk in the game(easily reaching +30% ; more if we factor in W.Speed and Fiery Form and the like), but I don't necessarily think it FITS him. He's supposed to be all about mobility, hit and strike etc, Scryer's perk would be much better here. Now, concerning its Power progression...the only thing that stands out is "Precognition", but that's meh. He also has quite some choice, but it's nowhere near like the other two who get things from level 15 on level 1.

Empyraenist: Its starting perk(+20% dmg during Red Heat) is underpowered(should scale so its +25% in Yellow and +50% in Red) especially if you see how much of a danger you put yourself into AND, hence, that it won't really be active that much. If compared to AW's perk, it easily loses out, even if it does make perfect sense. The starting armor seems like it's weak(just has a huge ceiling) and the Psychic progression...if you want Pyrokinetic, this is your class!

Scryer: Its starting perk(+20% move on kill for 5s) is honestly, kinda garbage, but see it as a free slot of sorts. It also don't really fit the Scryer unless he equips the AW armor, which, why should he(the customizability of the Warpbound armor is easily one of the selling points of that armor)? The entire pitch of the class is that you hyper buff yourself / debuff enemies etc and that's where you get your power from. The very fact that you do start with "Haemorrhage", "Misfortune"(which I think is somewhat useless before you start encountering CSM) and "Foreboding" only serves to illustrate that fact. In lieu of this, its and AW's perks should get swapped. The Psychic progression is just fine, even if he does get F.Form kinda late.

[K3RSH]

Thanks for your input of subclasses.
But what is your thoughts about "Run n Gun" perk availability in late game? Because right now, when choosing Crusader, I`m split between A/HG or T (because of attribute distribution) ... perk is very nice, but you get extra useless point in Virtue, which is attribute point wasted, since with all heroic deeds done, you get free first tier bonus from virtue anyway. So how important in late game is that lost stat point vs RnG perk, which could nicely stack up with other dmg dealing perks ?

[Gorwe]

Originally posted by D3M3:

Thanks for your input of subclasses.
But what is your thoughts about "Run n Gun" perk availability in late game? Because right now, when choosing Crusader, I`m split between A/HG or T (because of attribute distribution) ... perk is very nice, but you get extra useless point in Virtue, which is attribute point wasted, since with all heroic deeds done, you get free first tier bonus from virtue anyway. So how important in late game is that lost stat point vs RnG perk, which could nicely stack up with other dmg dealing perks ?

I'll have to think about this. Maybe I should write a review of starting stats as well when compared to free available stats etc. But I'd need a list of free stats for that, so if anyone would?

[K3RSH]

I need to look about free points, but stat Heroic Deed points are +4 per stat.
EDIT - looking in heroic deeds, it looks like you get +10 (wiki confirms it) free stat points.
And from progression it is not fully clear for me, but it looks like only +1 per stat ?

[Sugogron]

Originally posted by Gorwe:

Aetherwalker: The starting perk is quite possibly the strongest starting unique perk in the game(easily reaching +30% ; more if we factor in W.Speed and Fiery Form and the like), but I don't necessarily think it FITS him. He's supposed to be all about mobility, hit and strike etc, Scryer's perk would be much better here.

When playing endgame Aetherwalker psyker, with buffs from skill tree, active skills (actually all the buffs you see in the bottom of the screen), you are not on 30% damage boost but more like 150% +. This perk is not only good, it is the best damage boost perk in the game as the damage boost is fotm AF and is applied to ALL attacks (psychic powers and weapons skills).

In fact this is the only psyker subclass perk that you will use if you're trying to optimize your char, other are kinda trash regarding other available perks.

[Gorwe]

Originally posted by Sugogron:

Originally posted by Gorwe:

Aetherwalker: The starting perk is quite possibly the strongest starting unique perk in the game(easily reaching +30% ; more if we factor in W.Speed and Fiery Form and the like), but I don't necessarily think it FITS him. He's supposed to be all about mobility, hit and strike etc, Scryer's perk would be much better here.

When playing endgame Aetherwalker psyker, with buffs from skill tree, active skills (actually all the buffs you see in the bottom of the screen), you are not on 30% damage boost but more like 150% +. This perk is not only good, it is the best damage boost perk in the game as the damage boost is fotm AF and is applied to ALL attacks (psychic powers and weapons skills).

In fact this is the only psyker subclass perk that you will use if you're trying to optimize your char, other are kinda trash regarding other available perks.

Yeah, I can imagine(I was just taking the buff from the perk into account ; didn't account for various +%dmg from the likes of Speed or Form). It's a really good perk, but it fits the Scryer pitch much more, you've to agree. Honestly, I'd like if all the perks were at least on the level of Run + Gun or the Gunner one. But instead some are on a wrong subclass(Sniper for example) or utterly meh(Assault for example).

[Sugogron]

yeah i got your point m8 but what i wanted to say is that you are kinda looking for logic in something that is not, subclasses were integrated into the game without much attention, which is unfortunate ofc but not dramatic either :D

i mean the infos you get about subclasses when creating a new character in game is ridiculous, it is more confusing than anything else. I rerolled an Aetherwalker psyker just because of that actually, and yeah i was kinda disappointed about it :') So yes i honestly think that searching for logic or roleplay logic in subclasses is interesting but a new psyker player must know that he will be significantly less powerful playing endgame if he's not Aetherwalker :)

[K3RSH]

Originally posted by Sugogron:

So yes i honestly think that searching for logic or roleplay logic in subclasses is interesting but a new psyker player must know that he will be significantly less powerful playing endgame if he's not Aetherwalker :)

And there goes my W40k RP idea about sryer :(

Also, Eradicator starting perk wise is useless, since Tactical Mastery is only starting perk you can get for everyone, just from Heroic Deeds. I actualy use it a lot on my Scryer, since cooldown reduction on abilities is nice.

[Gorwe]

Originally posted by Sugogron:

yeah i got your point m8 but what i wanted to say is that you are kinda looking for logic in something that is not, subclasses were integrated into the game without much attention, which is unfortunate ofc but not dramatic either :D

i mean the infos you get about subclasses when creating a new character in game is ridiculous, it is more confusing than anything else. I rerolled an Aetherwalker psyker just because of that actually, and yeah i was kinda disappointed about it :') So yes i honestly think that searching for logic or roleplay logic in subclasses is interesting but a new psyker player must know that he will be significantly less powerful playing endgame if he's not Aetherwalker :)

Yeah, unfortunately so. But the experience of playing an Empyr is much more better for the large majority of people I can imagine. Given the Pyro stuff you begin with...and the Scryer can be better if using Kinetic attacks. Aether doesn't really have anything others don't except that perk!

Originally posted by D3M3:

Originally posted by Sugogron:

So yes i honestly think that searching for logic or roleplay logic in subclasses is interesting but a new psyker player must know that he will be significantly less powerful playing endgame if he's not Aetherwalker :)

And there goes my W40k RP idea about sryer :(

Also, Eradicator starting perk wise is useless, since Tactical Mastery is only starting perk you can get for everyone, just from Heroic Deeds. I actualy use it a lot on my Scryer, since cooldown reduction on abilities is nice.

Ah yes, thanks for mentioning that, will rectify. In that case, she should get something else as well. All of this should by all rights be fixed in 2.0, but somehow I doubt it. Don't know why.

[PocketYoda]

Assassin = 2h melee
Crusader = 2h melee
Psyker = Dual rod..

Everything else seems blah and arse..