My idea to solve the lore problem.

[Pocahontas]

These was a discussion about lore earlier. How can one man walk around killing several astartis and daemons even. Well this is my solution.

Correct me of I'm wrong but don't all inquisitors have the option to ask the Grey Knights for assistance if they deem that the task require it.

And since the galaxy is so big the Grey knights can't respond fast enough from Titan. So they patrol the galaxy so they might faster respont to these requests.

What if you, in game, could ask for this assistance. Prehaps starting a coundown, Representing the Grey Knights reponce time. During the countdown you would need to try and survive with your original character, using cover and perhaps other utility's like smoke grenades. Once the coundown ends the tables would turn as a freaking Grey Knight astartes, slamed down with a drop pod or teleported in. Giving the player temporary use of the Knight before it teleported away.

-This would give the game a unique felling, I think, were you actually have to use cover and survive certain bigger enemies. Might be really cool holding out for help.
-The enemies like daemons and chaos marines would feel terrifying and remain better within the lore.
-You might even get the option to customize your Grey Knight. Increase duration, damage, weapons, response time, health, you name it!
-Some rooming would have to have some kind of disruptor making you unable to call the Grey Knights. Bosses and what not.

This is how I would solve the lore problem.
I would be so hyped of they added this feature to the game.

What do you guys think?

[FlameWar]

Well, while it would be interesting to have some summoner-style abilities to summon stuff like grey knights and such, I think the longer cover battles you describe wouldn't lend themselves very well to the classic ARPG style of this game.

Plus, on the lroe side, there#s really not all that much problem with what the character does. it might be in the tops of what humans can achieve, but Humans (and especialy inquisitors) DID achiev stuff liek killing multiple chaos spacies, demons and the like. Most poeple mistake 'it is very, very, very rare' with 'it can't happen'.

Oh, and keep in mind the lroe of 40k is not really making sense in itself a lot of the time, like how e.g. Space marines are supposed to be so strong and turn battlefields around, while any sane enemy could just vaporize them with heavy artillery and such without much problems.
Space marines are strong for their size, but not really stronger than e.g. a decent tank or such whenever they actually do ♥♥♥♥ in the lore.

[Morkath]

There is nothing wrong with the lore. While an Inquisitor isn't as strong or as tough as a marine, they are still highly trained, and well equipped. Remember, even a base guardsman can take out a demon with a good shot from his lasgun.

A bolter puts holes in an astartes, and a melta gun liquifies a demon, regardless of if its a human or a marine firing it.


As for Grey Knights, them suddenly vanishing because they were there for over 5 minutes would ACTUALLY be lore breaking.

[AirsickHydra]

To me it seems more likely that the lore issue is something a few people feel strongly about - but perhaps not the majority. Obviously hrere's no way of knowing without a survey. But i'd be surprised if it's any more than single figures as a %. Perhaps i'm wrong though.

You might also be satisfied by the retinue system - we don't know what it is exactly yet as it's been kept very hush hush. But my suspicion is thatif this was meant to be a squad based arpg then it would probably have been added earlier and factored into the balancing. Who knows tho!

[✪ megapull]

Originally posted by AirsickHydra:

To me it seems more likely that the lore issue is something a few people feel strongly about - but perhaps not the majority. Obviously hrere's no way of knowing without a survey. But i'd be surprised if it's any more than single figures as a %. Perhaps i'm wrong though.

You might also be satisfied by the retinue system - we don't know what it is exactly yet as it's been kept very hush hush. But my suspicion is thatif this was meant to be a squad based arpg then it would probably have been added earlier and factored into the balancing. Who knows tho!

A survey would indeed be a good idea, but by our estimates you are right, more or less (about the number of concerned people).

[Brother PaciFist]

Hello OP, i killed not one Astartes in the game. Only chaos marines. Chaos marines stopped being Astartes a long time ago.

You do not fight against your beloved super human space marines. You only fight against undisciplined, chaotic, sick, heretic, stupid, fanatic, eager to kill, bloodlusty, drug abusing, totally insane Chaos Marines. Chaos Marines are not Astartes. Chaos Marines tend to infight between themselves. Chaos Marines are not steel willed like Astartes, they do not have the reflexes of Astartes, they have many different gifts from their chaos gods. Many of those gifts are more likely disabilities. You can not compare the combat efficiency of Chaos warriors to Adeptus Astartes.

And Inquisitor henchmen like the Assassin or the Crusader are trained and equiped to deal with Chaos agents. They use training, blessings, blessed ammunition and special tactics to combat heretics. They are specialists in killing them. Why should a normal loyal, blessed, well equiped Human, that has the blessings of the emperor on his side, not kill heretic undisciplined anarcho warriors? It is more like a fight between Hooligans and orderly Policmen. Do the hooligans win?

There is no lore problem you see.

Have a nice day

[Incunabulum]

Originally posted by Pocahontas:

These was a discussion about lore earlier. How can one man walk around killing several astartis and daemons even. Well this is my solution.

Correct me of I'm wrong but don't all inquisitors have the option to ask the Grey Knights for assistance if they deem that the task require it.

You are incorrect.

The GK's are not the chamber militant of the Ordo Malleus - no one outside the OM knows they exist (except for the limited support units that provide their equipment). The GK's are known for having everyone they fight alongside killed or mindwiped to preserve that secrecy.

So only a limited number of Inquisitors know they exist to start with and only within that single Ordo.

On top of that, GK's don't respond to run-of-the-mill stuff. Simply having demons running around isn't enough. They are an elite of elites and only show up to deal with the greatest of demonic threats.

[Incunabulum]

Originally posted by Brother PaciFist:

Hello OP, i killed not one Astartes in the game. Only chaos marines. Chaos marines stopped being Astartes a long time ago.

You do not fight against your beloved super human space marines. You only fight against undisciplined, chaotic, sick, heretic, stupid, fanatic, eager to kill, bloodlusty, drug abusing, totally insane Chaos Marines.

. . .

It is more like a fight between Hooligans and orderly Policmen. Do the hooligans win?

1. A CSM is a veteran of a 10,000 year long war. He's seen more combat that most Astartes Chapter Masters. He's honed his skill and hate over long millennia. He's boosted his already considerable combat prowess with the gifts he's received from his dark gods. Hard earned gifts. hard earned experience.

They're not 'undisciplined', they are simply not slaves to the corpse-god anymore. They fight because they choose to do so, for objectives they choose - not because someone else points and says 'sic!'

2. Quite often they do.

[Brother PaciFist]

Originally posted by Incunabulum:

Originally posted by Brother PaciFist:

Hello OP, i killed not one Astartes in the game. Only chaos marines. Chaos marines stopped being Astartes a long time ago.

You do not fight against your beloved super human space marines. You only fight against undisciplined, chaotic, sick, heretic, stupid, fanatic, eager to kill, bloodlusty, drug abusing, totally insane Chaos Marines.

. . .

It is more like a fight between Hooligans and orderly Policmen. Do the hooligans win?

1. A CSM is a veteran of a 10,000 year long war. He's seen more combat that most Astartes Chapter Masters. He's honed his skill and hate over long millennia. He's boosted his already considerable combat prowess with the gifts he's received from his dark gods. Hard earned gifts. hard earned experience.

They're not 'undisciplined', they are simply not slaves to the corpse-god anymore. They fight because they choose to do so, for objectives they choose - not because someone else points and says 'sic!'

2. Quite often they do.

Heretical propaganda. What are you, a chaos agent?

Chaos marines do infight all the time. They die all the time. They even die when at peace by fighting other chaos warriors. Only the most hardcore ones are veterans from the horus heresy and mostly in very high positions in the chaos legions. Like Abbadon. Or Lucius. Some chaos marine orders like the Thousand sons respawn after death. Some legions like the iron warriors recruit new marines into their order. Those new recruits are not on the same power level as the original astartes. The survivors of the horus heresy you can count on your hand. They are extremely rare and powerful, not your normal chaos marine fodder.

Most veterans from horus heresy are dead. Abaddon lost 12 whole crusades. That should be a lot of chaos marines dead.

And most chaos marines have one thing in common, they are ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ crazy and do not care about living or dying.

[Hatchetforce]

The possibility that only a small minority of people are concerned about the preservation of the lore should not be viewed as some permission slip to take a piss on it.

While the developers have a responsibility to produce a good game they also have a duty to the lore and that obligation exists outside this board and beyond even the fans that have never heard of Warhammer.

Lack of creativity and/or the unwillingness to gather information and outthink a situation is not a hall pass to cut corners and formulate lore violations. The lore of W40k is vast and with some thought and fan input before decisions are rendered in stone, almost every situation can be remedied within bounds and still be fun AND lore friendly.

[Brother PaciFist]

There is no consistent lore in the warhammer 40k universe. With primaris marines even Games workshop themselves retconned the lore so hard, it is irreversible damaged. Just enjoy the show. Look at what they have done to Warhammer fantasy. They just destroyed the whole fantasy world and changed it into something strange.

Violation of lore of a fantasy-scifi universe? Is that a criminal offense? You can not really violate something that is purely madeup by hundreds of authors that all tell a slightly different tale.

Have a nice day.

[Hatchetforce]

There is no doubt what some authors have said and done. There is also no question that Games workshop has not helped matters. While diehard Warhammer fans acknowledge that lore violations have occurred, they also know that throwing up your hands and saying ♥♥♥♥ it do what you want because now nothing matters is also not the solution or correct path. They can smell something incorrect when it starts to stink.

Two wrongs do not make a right and continuing to torpedo the lore simply on the basis of an inability to create a correct yet enjoyable solution and doing so availing yourself of the excuse that others have already made numerous mistakes is a cop out. It is the mark of persons simply in the business for the greedy end and they have no interest in truly serving the community but rather only seek to satisfy themselves.

[Brother PaciFist]

Wow, violation of lore is now a capital crime. How about you play games for fun and dont try to see everything so serious. You will loose the ability to have fun if you overanalyse everything.

How about you pick those parts of the lore you are okay with and forget about the parts you find not warhammer worthy. What ever that maybe. Do you enjoy the game? Is it that important for you that your inquisitor crusader can kill chaos marines easily? Then just play missions that are 200 powerlevel over your level. The marines start to get realy tough. Problem solved. Now you have a really hard time to do anything in the game, and your inquisitor feels weak. Wow.

Have fun.

[Niebieski klopsik]

I think we just need more games about terminators in a space hulk. Megapull, you think you could do a game like that next?

[AirsickHydra]

Originally posted by Hatchetforce:

The possibility that only a small minority of people are concerned about the preservation of the lore should not be viewed as some permission slip to take a piss on it.

While the developers have a responsibility to produce a good game they also have a duty to the lore and that obligation exists outside this board and beyond even the fans that have never heard of Warhammer.

Lack of creativity and/or the unwillingness to gather information and outthink a situation is not a hall pass to cut corners and formulate lore violations. The lore of W40k is vast and with some thought and fan input before decisions are rendered in stone, almost every situation can be remedied within bounds and still be fun AND lore friendly.

Yeah that wasn't meant as a stab at those who take issue with lore bending or breaking. There's no harm in pointing out that power armor shouldn't be suseptable to autogun fire and most inquisitors aren't capable of surviving a one vs one against a csm let alone 3 at a time. They are true as far as the books are concerned and people are right and free to call it to question if it doesn't match their expectation. Csm are unquestionably weak and I think the majority of the player base would agree on that point.
But I do think the number of players who take issue with each specific issue is at least one of many variables in a bigger picture to consider. Should there be thinking or re-designing of in-game elements at this point i'd like to think that the benefits and risks were taken into consideration and the demand for change is a factor in that alongside things like responsibility to the IP and such.

That's not saying features can't be added to go some lengths to appease all parties however, I agree with you on that and perhaps you have some ideas on the subject?

My personal hopes to realign the game are that the story will go at least some ways into explaining the nature and speciality of our character. Hopefully bosses too will be met with appropraite combat complexity and mechanics to make them more passable and perhaps the retinue system will go some ways to justify how an inquisitor is capable of achieving so much in combat. But most of that will be easier to comment on in a months time.

[Brother PaciFist]

Airsyck you are our beacon of hope and sanity.

It is hard to take people seriously who use words like preservation of lore or torpedo the lore and other things. It is like some people are selfproclaimed guardians of lore and their opinion equals the opinion of all warhammer 40k martyr fans. I tried to reason with them, gave examples why the game is not that far off the lore, or why there is no consistent lore found in the warhammer 40k. My message seems not to reach them. You are much more eloquent in your language, you should have a better chance.

It seems a fight against windmills. It is a game guys, a simple game. If you take the lore seriously our inquisitor could only fight normal human chaos cultists and discontent unarmed citizens for 90% of the game.

Have a nice day.