Heavy bolter? I do not get it.

[Fulli]

It seams the Heavy Bolter is just underpowerd, i cant even kill crowds of green enemys with it. Is there a wright way to use it?

[[S.A.S]sephchan]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von The Emperor's new groovy baby!:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Sergeant Scryed:

Eff it since we talking about heavy weapons, I want a assault cannon.

Once they add Terminator armour, probably...

LOL! He's an inquisitor, you nabcake, not a terminator xD

[Hatchetforce]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von S.A.Ssephchan:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von The Emperor's new groovy baby!:

Once they add Terminator armour, probably...

LOL! He's an inquisitor, you nabcake, not a terminator xD

Terminator Armor is for Chapter Veterans assigned to 1st Companies. Let's not suggest the devs rape the canon any more.

[SnugSnug]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Hatchetforce:

The Heavy Bolter wasn't a shoulder fired weapon as it was simply too heavy. It could be mounted on a pintle so you now have a base or position defense weapon on a tripod or on a vehicle for offense/defense. The Heavy Bolter fires rocket propelled .998 cal rounds. Think about that. Almost twice the size of a .50 and if you have fired one of those you know the damage it can do. It is an electric weapon rather than gas operated with a motor driving the feed of ammo similar to a minigun in that respect so we definitely need a more specific sound for the weapon. If you have ever been around real weapons fire you know that some are more unique sounding that others. And if you have read enough of the books you know that when someone is working enemy troops with one it has a very very distinctive audio footprint.

The thing about the Heavy Bolter is the fact it is a two man weapon and not carried by a single Imperial troop except for Space Marines and the reason they could do this was their engineered size and strength combined with Power Armor so it isn't the kind of thing that a standard troop can carry around.

I really wish the Dev Team would adhere to the canon. Too many times we have various games where teams twist around backwards, do a somersault and a cartwheel to make some gameplay convention change that torpedoes the canon. And usually it is unecessary to do so if they just used more imagination. I just wanted to throw up recently playing Shadow Of War and how they pissed on Tolkien in that game. And it really wasn't necessary because there were plenty of other routes they could have taken with great story adjustments and gameplay mechanics. They just lacked imagination and quite frankly were lazy. I have 7 games plus DLC from Neocore and know they have the capability to do something great and stay within the bounds of the canon. But at the end of the day they have to make the effort.

Original Heavy bolters were shoulder mounted heavy weapons carried by imperial guard, squats, marines, chaos marines, chaos/genestealer cultists, orks even tyranids had 'em via 'mind slave squads' GW has re-written it's own IP so many times that its difficult to blame devs for not following the 'current canon'.

Edit: Inquisitors have always had access to terminator armour... no lore broken old or current.

[Hatchetforce]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von SnugSnug:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Hatchetforce:

The Heavy Bolter wasn't a shoulder fired weapon as it was simply too heavy. It could be mounted on a pintle so you now have a base or position defense weapon on a tripod or on a vehicle for offense/defense. The Heavy Bolter fires rocket propelled .998 cal rounds. Think about that. Almost twice the size of a .50 and if you have fired one of those you know the damage it can do. It is an electric weapon rather than gas operated with a motor driving the feed of ammo similar to a minigun in that respect so we definitely need a more specific sound for the weapon. If you have ever been around real weapons fire you know that some are more unique sounding that others. And if you have read enough of the books you know that when someone is working enemy troops with one it has a very very distinctive audio footprint.

The thing about the Heavy Bolter is the fact it is a two man weapon and not carried by a single Imperial troop except for Space Marines and the reason they could do this was their engineered size and strength combined with Power Armor so it isn't the kind of thing that a standard troop can carry around.

I really wish the Dev Team would adhere to the canon. Too many times we have various games where teams twist around backwards, do a somersault and a cartwheel to make some gameplay convention change that torpedoes the canon. And usually it is unecessary to do so if they just used more imagination. I just wanted to throw up recently playing Shadow Of War and how they pissed on Tolkien in that game. And it really wasn't necessary because there were plenty of other routes they could have taken with great story adjustments and gameplay mechanics. They just lacked imagination and quite frankly were lazy. I have 7 games plus DLC from Neocore and know they have the capability to do something great and stay within the bounds of the canon. But at the end of the day they have to make the effort.

Original Heavy bolters were shoulder mounted heavy weapons carried by imperial guard, squats, marines, chaos marines, chaos/genestealer cultists, orks even tyranids had 'em via 'mind slave squads' GW has re-written it's own IP so many times that its difficult to blame devs for not following the 'current canon'.

Edit: Inquisitors have always had access to terminator armour... no lore broken old or current.

We've discussed this. Shoulder fired bolters are a thing of some years ago. You just do not see them around much now. Yes there were shoulder fired models seen years and years ago. But what they originally were and how they have evolved are two different matters. And as per canon from the Inquisitors Handbook, which I have on my coffee table, ordinary humans cannot wield an Astartes Heavy Bolter. It's right there in black and white from Games Workshop. That is a big part of the issue. There are Astartes versions of items such as Power Armor and humans can wear scaled down versions that are nothing like what an Astartes would wear but they are not donning Astartes Power Armor. Terminator Armor is a type of Astartes Power Armor and non-enhanced humans cannot don and use it. The few times we have seen it - Ordo Malleus is one, another would be Hector Rex, these are not cases of standard Terminator Armor being worn because it is simply just too large. Imagine yourself trying to wear clothes designed for someone 7 - 8 feet tall. These are scaled down versions that do not connect with a Black Carapace which means Inquisitors cannot interface even with these scaled down versions. They are hardly the Dreadnoughts that we see when it is an Astartes in full size Terminator Armor.

And I agree about the canon issue. Every property that has a canon has suffered one offs and flyers from instances where something slipped through the canon. Sometimes the community needs to realize this and no matter how cool it sounds they have to apply the laws of common sense and consider the the universe they are discussing and what rules would apply and quash the odd variances.

[SnugSnug]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Hatchetforce:

We've discussed this. Shoulder fired bolters are a thing of some years ago. You just do not see them around much now. Yes there were shoulder fired models seen years and years ago. But what they originally were and how they have evolved are two different matters. And as per canon from the Inquisitors Handbook, which I have on my coffee table, ordinary humans cannot wield an Astartes Heavy Bolter. It's right there in black and white from Games Workshop. That is a big part of the issue. There are Astartes versions of items such as Power Armor and humans can wear scaled down versions that are nothing like what an Astartes would wear but they are not donning Astartes Power Armor. Terminator Armor is a type of Astartes Power Armor and non-enhanced humans cannot don and use it. The few times we have seen it - Ordo Malleus is one, another would be Hector Rex, these are not cases of standard Terminator Armor being worn because it is simply just too large. Imagine yourself trying to wear clothes designed for someone 7 - 8 feet tall. These are scaled down versions that lack the Black Carapace which means Inquisitors cannot interface even with these scaled down versions. They are hardly the Dreadnoughts that we see when it is an Astartes in full size Terminator Armor.

My point was rather that a Dev needs to pick a point or refernce of Ip and then stick to that for their own devlopment cycle. With an Ip that regulary changes or has multiple points of reference which 40k warhammer does, then its difficult to stick to canon in its purist form but rather aim for something that thermatically fits.

Heavy bolter example its fuel powered, its electric it has mutliple variants depending which forgeworld design, its fast firing, its slow firing 'relative to other support weapons', its heavy and cumbersome, its a manpat its a 2 man static setup support, it's common underhive gang weapon, it fires ap, he, heat, ceramic acid shells, gas shells, some shells are to large to be fired on automatic (wtf? logic) yes it should have a distintive sound but what would that be given the above variations that have at one time all been linked as official discriptions form valid GW sources. So as a designer you go for something that fits your own general setting and prefernces.

Regards terminator armour/ tactical dreadnought armour even power armour for that matter there are enough different variations of it around to fit normal humans and its design accounts for the lesser size and lack of direct interface that any Astartes utilises, which while making them much more efficient at wearing the power armour, doesn't rule out other branches of the Imperium from still equipping it. The inquisition should be considered anything but standardised and therefore the choice of certain inquisitors and their retinue to use irregular or customised gear is inkeeping. Here's an older excerpt:

Also known as Tactical Dreadnought Armour, Terminator exo-armour is a devolpment of the sealed environment suits used by spaceship crews, space pirates, and in many other lethal situations.
Exo-armour is constructed from heavy guage plasteel plating, forming an armoured shell that can withstand even the colossal impact of high-speed orbital micro-debris. It is the only readily available armour suitable for working inside the high pressure casings of plasma reactor shields, or the extremely corrosive environments inside the holds of bulk chemical carriers.
These same qualities suitably enhanced by the Adeptus Mechanicus, make Terminator armour virtually invunerable from most weapons

Priestly & Warrick 1989.

Like all GW ip its description and availablily has varied depending on edition but it would be easy enough to insert it into 'this' game as there is precedent. How it preforms is down to the game and unless there is also an Astarte Terminator in game how could one tell if it was underperforming relatively speaking.

Edit: i also found this from an early description (Battle Manual - 1992) used to differentiate between autoguns (modern conventional) and 'bolt' weapons

It is a short or compact weapon that fires a missile or bolt substantially larger than a bullet. The bolt contains an armoured piercing tip, an explosive and a mass reactive detonator. it is shot from the barrel under low velocity, its own propellant igniting once the missile is clear of the barrel. The explosive detonates only when it has pierced armour. Any sudden increase in local mass activates the explosive and blows the target apart from the inside.
... (with regards to the heavy bolter) it fires a bolt with a more powerful propellent and explosive charge than the normal bolter

[Hatchetforce]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von SnugSnug:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Hatchetforce:

We've discussed this. Shoulder fired bolters are a thing of some years ago. You just do not see them around much now. Yes there were shoulder fired models seen years and years ago. But what they originally were and how they have evolved are two different matters. And as per canon from the Inquisitors Handbook, which I have on my coffee table, ordinary humans cannot wield an Astartes Heavy Bolter. It's right there in black and white from Games Workshop. That is a big part of the issue. There are Astartes versions of items such as Power Armor and humans can wear scaled down versions that are nothing like what an Astartes would wear but they are not donning Astartes Power Armor. Terminator Armor is a type of Astartes Power Armor and non-enhanced humans cannot don and use it. The few times we have seen it - Ordo Malleus is one, another would be Hector Rex, these are not cases of standard Terminator Armor being worn because it is simply just too large. Imagine yourself trying to wear clothes designed for someone 7 - 8 feet tall. These are scaled down versions that lack the Black Carapace which means Inquisitors cannot interface even with these scaled down versions. They are hardly the Dreadnoughts that we see when it is an Astartes in full size Terminator Armor.

My point was rather that a Dev needs to pick a point or refernce of Ip and then stick to that for their own devlopment cycle. With an Ip that regulary changes or has multiple points of reference which 40k warhammer does, then its difficult to stick to canon in its purist form but rather aim for something that thermatically fits.

Heavy bolter example its fuel powered, its electric it has mutliple variants depending which forgeworld design, its fast firing, its slow firing 'relative to other support weapons', its heavy and cumbersome, its a manpat its a 2 man static setup support, it's common underhive gang weapon, it fires ap, he, heat, ceramic acid shells, gas shells, some shells are to large to be fired on automatic (wtf? logic) yes it should have a distintive sound but what would that be given the above variations that have at one time all been linked as official discriptions form valid GW sources. So as a designer you go for something that fits your own general setting and prefernces.

Regards terminator armour/ tactical dreadnought armour even power armour for that matter there are enough different variations of it around to fit normal humans and its design accounts for the lesser size and lack of direct interface that any Astartes utilises, which while making them much more efficient at wearing the power armour, doesn't rule out other branches of the Imperium from still equipping it. The inquisition should be considered anything but standardised and therefore the choice of certain inquisitors and their retinue to use irregular or customised gear is inkeeping. Here's an older excerpt:

Also known as Tactical Dreadnought Armour, Terminator exo-armour is a devolpment of the sealed environment suits used by spaceship crews, space pirates, and in many other lethal situations.
Exo-armour is constructed from heavy guage plasteel plating, forming an armoured shell that can withstand even the colossal impact of high-speed orbital micro-debris. It is the only readily available armour suitable for working inside the high pressure casings of plasma reactor shields, or the extremely corrosive environments inside the holds of bulk chemical carriers.
These same qualities suitably enhanced by the Adeptus Mechanicus, make Terminator armour virtually invunerable from most weapons

Priestly & Warrick 1989.

Like all GW ip its description and availablily has varied depending on edition but it would be easy enough to insert it into 'this' game as there is precedent. How it preforms is down to the game and unless there is also an Astarte Terminator in game how could one tell if it was underperforming relatively speaking.

Edit: i also found this from an early description (Battle Manual - 1992) used to differentiate between autoguns (modern conventional) and 'bolt' weapons

It is a short or compact weapon that fires a missile or bolt substantially larger than a bullet. The bolt contains an armoured piercing tip, an explosive and a mass reactive detonator. it is shot from the barrel under low velocity, its own propellant igniting once the missile is clear of the barrel. The explosive detonates only when it has pierced armour. Any sudden increase in local mass activates the explosive and blows the target apart from the inside.
... (with regards to the heavy bolter) it fires a bolt with a more powerful propellent and explosive charge than the normal bolter

The point about the Priestly and Warrick quote is it only states from where it was developed. At no place does it say that it is for normal humans because it isn't. It's great history though and thanks for posting the quote :) Normal human tech inspired the suits but that is not the purpose for which Terminator Armor was designed. And some of that has been retconned because of the Horus Heresy.

During the Great Crusade era, the Mechanicum was receiving a steady influx of new and rediscovered technologies from each planet brought to Imperial Compliance, and, in an effort to stem the horrendous loss of Astartes lives resulting from the ferocious conquests, attempted to design the "ultimate" pattern of Power Armour which would render a Space Marine virtually invunerable. The design emerged from a hybrid of standard Astartes Power Armour, the cybernetic shell of a Dreadnought and the armoured hostile environment suits long worn by Terran engineers who worked in difficult conditions like debris-plagued orbital space and the radioactive engine cores of interstellar spacecraft. Tactical Dreadnought Armour, as it was called, would turn the Astartes warrior within it into a living tank.

The eventual result of the Mechanicum's travails was only a partial success: the first suits of Terminator Armour did, as intended, afford a level of protection previously unattainable for its wearer. Like Power Armour, these suits were equipped with fibre-bundle synthetic muscles and imposed few movement restrictions upon the wearer despite their immense weight. But they were also too bulky, and their massive weight made running difficult despite built-in auto-balancers. The suits suffered from voracious power demands, and few existing armaments could be carried as the armour's sheer bulk made handling and reloading impossible. But most importantly, the sheer amounts of raw materials and manpower required to craft Terminator Armour were so great that retrofitting the whole of the existing Space Marine Legions with it was simply not feasible for the already thinly stretched logistics of the nascent Imperium of Man.

Several patterns of Terminator Armour evolved in parallel from the Forge Worlds of the Mechanicum and the armouries of the Space Marine Legions. The Mechanicum refined their concept, and developed weapons specially adapted for it, like Combi-weapons and the Reaper Autocannon. Terminator Armour was then presented in limited numbers to the crusading Legions, who quickly found a use for it. Massively armoured, sealed against any hostile environmental conditions and incorporating their own heavy ranged or close combat armament, Terminator Armour designs soon proved their worth.

Tech from normal humans inspired the weapons carried by the Astartes but many of them cannot be used by normal humans at all. Terminator Armor is considered to have one use and that actual armor is for 1st Company Veterans of the Chapters of Adeptus Astartes.

Tactical Dreadnought Armour, more commonly known as Terminator Armour, is an advanced form of powered armour developed for close-quarters melee fighting done by Space Marine Terminators, for whom slaying power is more important than maneuverability. These suits are primarily utilised in situations where standard Space Marine Power Armour does not provide enough protection for a warrior. When battle calls for durability and protection over agility, it is to revered suits of Terminator Armour that the Space Marines turn. Massively thick armour plates and powerful servo-muscles drive these defensive shells, and only the best and bravest of a Space Marine Chapter may don this ancient and sacred battle-harness.

Terminator Armour is an incredibly durable suit comprising an outer shell of heavy-gauge ceramite plasteel composite plates, mounted on an adamantium exoskeleton with servo-assisted interfaces that integrate with an Astartes' own neurological and muscular systems to enhance movement

The science that has since been laid out regarding the making of a Space Marine now precludes anyone but a Space Marine from wearing the actual full size armor. As stated, what Inquisitors have worn is not even close to being the same. First due to size and second due to the Black Carapace in a Space Marine's body. Without the Black Carapace you cannot through neural connection command the armor to move and thus it simply will not move. One of this things Power Armor does for the Astartes, and this includes Terminator Armor, is enhance movement and speed through the locomotion system of the armor. No Black Carapce means the armor will sit immoble and not move at all. Terminator armor lacks speed but the poswer to move the heavy armor requires the neurointerface the Balck Carapace provides. That is simply the science of the way Astartes Power armor functions and there is no getting around it. Terminator armor, the actual full size suits are restricted to Astartes. Its that simple.

Regarding Bolters:

The mighty Adeptus Astartes are superhuman in every way, and so too are their weapons. Each is oversized and specially designed for their great strength and enlarged physiques. This is especially true of bolter weapons.......

.......with hand grips larger than any human hand can manage and a weight that would require most humans to use a support bracing. Indeed a human trying to fire such a weapon would likely suffer recoil of such strength that it would rip their arm from its socket. Space Marine Bolt Guns are simply not something seen outside their sacred ranks. "Mortal" bolters are a rank apart and designed that mere humans can wield them.

The Inquisitor's Handbook

Doesn't Warhammer 40K just have the best history and canon of anything around? Love this universe :)

[Hatchetforce]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von SnugSnug:

My point was rather that a Dev needs to pick a point or refernce of Ip and then stick to that for their own devlopment cycle. With an Ip that regulary changes or has multiple points of reference which 40k warhammer does, then its difficult to stick to canon in its purist form but rather aim for something that thermatically fits.

Didn't say this above but I agree with you 1000%. Great post. If they just used the universe as laid out from 2014 on things would be a great deal less questionable.

[SnugSnug]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Hatchetforce:

Regarding Bolters:

The mighty Adeptus Astartes are superhuman in every way, and so too are their weapons. Each is oversized and specially designed for their great strength and enlarged physiques. This is especially true of bolter weapons.......

.......with hand grips larger than any human hand can manage and a weight that would require most humans to use a support bracing. Indeed a human trying to fire such a weapon would likely suffer recoil of such strength that it would rip their arm from its socket. Space Marine Bolt Guns are simply not something seen outside their sacred ranks. "Mortal" bolters are a rank apart and designed that mere humans can wield them.

The Inquisitor's Handbook

Doesn't Warhammer 40K just have the best history and canon of anything around? Love this universe :)

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Hatchetforce:

Didn't say this above but I agree with you 1000%. Great post. If they just used the universe as laid out from 2014 on things would be a great deal less questionable.

It's difficult to reconcile any fixed game system into the overall IP without running into contradictions and this is really true of WH40K. Each edition changes the core rules and the way the TT is played subtle changes to item descriptions occur to allow for this and in some instances explanations are offered as to why history has been re-written or an alternate provided. The quotes from Inquisition rpg while appearing on surface value as a good start point for an Inquisition based game are also a sideshow vantage point and can be seen from other views eg Deathwatch related materials (pc game, gw specialist game and novels etc) which are also Inquisition related but subtlely different resulting in these discussions of interest.

Astartes weapons for example should be different if only to allow for the oversized fingers of their gaunlet armour, but this is only reflected in some of the available sources and admittedly the more modern ones but even then the core rules of the different games don't really reflect this just the fluff material and that is subject to change :). In the original necromunda heavies had access to Heavy Bolters, gang leaders bolt guns. In their description they are referred to as Astartes weapons, very rare and very prestigious... i wonder what the new release of Necromunda will do with the source material? Some of the older model designs have been justified through use of different forgeworld patterns (Phobos, Mars, Tigrus etc) and further explained through the loss of those worlds to universal events are no longer available - neat, clever, easy. Until someone reserrects the model in a newer edition and suddenly its back, Forgeworld have shoulder mounted 'backbreaker' heavy Bolters again, lol, while the latest edition Core rules has reintroduced Stalker Bolters despite its rocky past IP.

If GW decides to release Sisters in Terminator armour the background and reasoning will appear alongside the model in print and it will be immediately canon. To this extent i think Neocore has some wiggle room for their own slice of 40k although i would like to see some of the rarer and more exotic trappings of the different inquisition branches over the entire 30 year IP back catalogue filter into the game especially related to the Heavy Bolter wich remains a personal favourite of my Guard and Escher.

[Hatchetforce]

They have been decently steady since 2014. Things seem to have settled a bit. All of my latest Codexes (7th Edition) and my 8th Edition books are relatively locked. I do not think we will see the Sisters in Terminator Armor. Not real Terminator armor for reasons already stated. There are some rumors flying around regarding the Sisters. I would completely pay years in advance for a Daemonifuge storyline ha ha. Chapter Master Valrak noted the new Necromunda rumor here:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xS48p8V2SB0

And the return of the Sisters rumor here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5FXu2AEkIQ

[SnugSnug]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Hatchetforce:

Classic case of ressurrected IP that had previously been ousted supposedly indefinitely Beastmen based off 1990's IG guards list / fluff and artwork. Beastman with imperial breastplate and pistol one of my favourites from oop range. Hope it sells well as 'caster' suggested profit dictates IP and specialist games are market testers.

Pinch...As for sister termies, they're always had them, just like marines have always had centurians it's just that they've never felt the need to field them until the Primaris turned up and sisters needed to up their game as Astartes hard counters in the Imperial power balance, and since they're smaller you can get 10 in a rhino

With Grey Knights technically being militant wing of Inquision, access to certain tech is not unfeasable and since there's also department for overseeing mechanicus and hunting rogues its not beyond scope for there to be access to IP fringe tech especially in the hands of the more radically inclined Inquisitors. Eg: Field testing prototype Elysian Drop Troop airborne 'not so' Heavy Bolter.

Would make an interesting scenario if some missions were to involve rival inquisitor who didn't approve of ones methods and had taken steps...

But i fear we're way offtopic of OP so sry for derail.

[Hatchetforce]

Not really a topic derail. I call it ...natural progression :) Sister Termies are like the Sister's Power Armor. They just aren't even in the same league as that worn by the Astartes. Size and The Black Carapace isn't something that can be slipped past. Then there is the matter of the Crux Terminatus and whether that contains a fragment of the Emperor's Armor. As cool as Terminator Armor is, people will just have to play Deathwing. I'm in the closed beta for the Enhanced Edition and love it. Or the developers will have to break the canon more, or add a class where the character is an Astartes and likely break the canon there too.

While the Grey Knights are a military wing of Ordo Malleus, they are not Inquisitors. And the reason they can and do wear actual Terminator Armor is they are Adeptes Astartes.

As for the Heavy Bolter, we should be seeing a little more accuracy in cover positions or in some sort of brace, but these are after all Heavy Bolters made for humans and not the Space Marines.

[SnugSnug]

I don't really think it's rellavent whether the a Bolter is man or Astarte class, especially not to this particular game in terms of game mechanics. Sisters of Battle use 'best in class' bolter Godwyn-something (easter egg) take that as one will. Astartes also use same pattern, or someone made a mistake when labelling up some of the schematics in a codex (also possible) obviously the preformance enhancing fleur-de-lys is interchangable with magnetic chapter iconography. Inquisitor X (Eisenhorn?), also uses bolt pistol gifted to him from a Marine but novel always makes a point of mentioning the kick etc. (sorry for the vagueness doing this from memory and not in position for fact-check/referencing)

There are plenty of sources that basically say the calibre of the round is matched to the weapon class (pistol,ar,hvy) and both are mass produced from the same licensed forgeworlds (license the right word for how mechanicus chose which schamitics to adopt?) So does an Astarte bolter have higher calibre barrel or just sturdier upscaled weapon housing with extra space for additional tech which while changing the performance and handeling of the weapon doesn't mean more stopping power as that is an attribute of the self contained munitions which may or may not be standardised for better logistics.

Access to specialised munitions while being a great game mechanic also makes sense in some respects for the IP, so the Elite gets best access Astartes, while the even more secretive elite also Astartes gets extra more specialist non-mainstream munitions, that may also include necessary weapon customisation eg Deathwatch.

But the Imperium is full of mistrust with each power-block looking not only to check the enemy but also the percieved enemy with-in. So in this respect while Astarte armour is better for them, the armours produced for Custodians, Sisters, G.Knights were also equally advanced if not more so for their intended users and purpose, as they have often been designed seperately but from the same source.

Grey Knights are an Astartes Chapter but their chapter master is an Inquisitor, and any imperial force may be requisitioned via the inquistion if the situation requires it, hence the possible access to tech/supply and plausability of having Greyknight/Deathwatch/Redhunter/Exorcist or any other Imperial available (DLC?)

Seeing static, cover or braced fire as different from hipfire is good. It would also be nice if cone was linked to firetype or burst lengths. But this is difficult for me to comment on as i've yet to pick up the game. The original (TT) sustained rules were counter intuitve, greater accuracy for same target less accuracy for switching this on a firesupport/suppression weapon with heavy recoil. The idea of devestators reciting the mantra of "Bananna Bananna Bananna" always tickled me.

[The Emperor's new groovy baby!]

My issue with the HB here in this game, is that only the accurate super-frag rounds are good, and that the other 3 firing modes are mediocre-to-trash

[Hatchetforce]

Astartes have enhancements on bolters such as shielded magazines on their weapons making them less prone to damage. Also heavier weight means lower recoil = more accuracy. Combine this with the strength of an Astartes and you have accuracy doubled over again.

I've not read anything - and I have a stack of both novels and Official GW Rule Books, Codexes, and manuals - that differentiates caliber between bolters of the same type when one is designed for a standard Imperium troop and one for an Astartes. Only that the Heavy Bolter and standard bolter are different calibers (.998 vs .75), and the Heavy is a two man weapon for standard troops and an Astartes can carry one alone and of course there are the magazine and backpack capacities listed as well. Again. Nothing about a differentiation I have found. Also in those same books are the various types ouf rounds that can be used in a bolter. The Wargear Manual lists:

1 - Standard Bolt: Depleted Deuterium Core
2 - Inferno Bolt
3 - Hellfire Round
4 - Metal Storm Frag Shell
5 - Stalker Silenced SHell'
6 - Kraken Patttern Penetrator Round

The Wargear manual does say that "rounds include". What it doesn't say is "rounds are limited to"...which I take to mean there are numerous other types since there are ha ha. Some Chapter specific as you may know such as the Dark Angels Seeker round. After all we also have the Vengeance round, Shrapnel round, and the Dragonfire round just to name a few others. Rounds should evolve, or rather be created when enemies evolve or tech becomes available that allows an enemy to be more effectlvely combatted. We still need to know the time period for this game and they should avoid the inclusion of items that should not exist before a specific event and could have affected said event in drastic measure.

Grey Knights were founded on a direct order from the Emperor and each Astartes in the Grey Knights is a Psyker. Kaldor Draigo is the Supreme Grand Master of the Grey Knights and for the most part he exists in the Warp in the realm of chaos. He himself wears Terminator armor and he can do so because he is an Astartes. He can return for brief periods of time but I do not know of any reference where is is actually an Inquisitor. He certainly doesn't perform Inquisitor duties. As of late is is able to stay in the Imperial Realm for longer periods of time but he cannot control it and he is whisked away. Also he was created by Matt Ward who has since left GW and a great many people, myself included could not stand the guy for his creations that often times came out of nowhere with little regard for history or the canon. He is particularly despised by quite a few people. Good riddance. Seriously screw that guy. Or so we thought and then word arose of his rehire. Not sure. The Escapist rightfully credits him with tumbling the stock prices of the company. Here, read more: https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Matthew_Ward

The Grey Knights were founded to fight daemonic entities in their purest form. In that regard they have a solitary mission that sets them apart from the other Chapters. Because of this I agree absolutely it would fit for them to be summoned. I think the proper phrase is, By George you've done it :) Which is to say this would be a logical method to bring select (Grey Knights) into the game. I am not as familar with them as I am with my two favorite Chapters - The Dark Angels and the Ultramarines.

EDIT: They blocked out my link ha ha. Google him. The website starts with a number that comes between 3 and 5.

[SnugSnug]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Hatchetforce:

Your right it looks like its been re-written from 1991 WH40k Compilation formerly WD article. Although i thought i'd read it in another more recent book, will have to look. (teach me to keep upto date or not as per usual.)

Its been reworded to "member of the Inner Conclave of the Inquisition", but that's not necessarily an Inquisitor. There's also now a dedicated "Representative of the Inquisition" title - 7th company master. (7th ed.)