Guns are kinda useless?

[Jerry]

I liked them at first but now I find they do 50% less damage than even the basic sword. Unless I am missing something how do you use them effectivly? That time spent reloading and the mele damage they do is useless except on occasion when that one monster survives with 1 hp. A basic sword does the same damage and no reload time. Less chance to break and critz and speed bonuses.

[Fulano]

I agree, especially with how low the player HP is in this game, if I'm not killing enemies in those first two rounds, they will be killing my party members instead.

It feels pointless to put everything into one shot with how low chances of success are in this game.

[[SF] MooMan]

They are only good in the early stages of the game

[Grrwaaa]

they CAN be used late, for example take 3 very large AOE ones and have everyone focus and fire on turn 1... deal 90+ damage to the group for 1 focus each. But I agree that the reload makes them janky. Maybe if they started with two barrels?

[Sairren37]

Maybe an item or piece of armor that allows for either a free reload or chance of free reload. While it wouldn't solve the issue itself, it is a solution. Though I don't know if there're any late game guns that are better or have magazines.

But yeah, right now the guns aren't all that great outside the early stages of the game when compared to the damage per turn of weapons at the same damage level.

[Fulano]

Originally posted by Sairren37:

Maybe an item or piece of armor that allows for either a free reload or chance of free reload. While it wouldn't solve the issue itself, it is a solution. Though I don't know if there're any late game guns that are better or have magazines.

That would be a great fix, and add to the variability between rounds.

[Oshi]

I like to use the muskete with my Hunter.
Cause of your high speed u start first in every fight and for a 100% hit chance u only need 1 focus. Furthermore with armor pierce and a high crit chance u can kill nrly every enemy in the first turn even most scourges (with the +50% dmg on scourges item).
So ambush is useless against u too.

I won't use guns on 'real' bosses or the kraken cause if u cant kill an enemy in the first round I share your opinion! :)

[Anxarcule]

I'm running a journeyman into the deep game with a trapper/woodcutter/scholar and my scholar has been using guns pretty much exclusively. I had a gilded barasomething that does 28 base damage + splash damage for a single talent check. I find it is fantastic at crowd control provided you can keep his focus up, and it's especially good against mobs that require a perfect roll to hit (they generally have lower HP to compensate for this anyway.

It was also useful against the kraken whom I managed to kill on my first encounter with my armored boat (knocked down from 10 health to 2 health) through a combination of gunning and bleeding it.

[Jerry]

@Anxarcule

I think most people beat it on its first attempt he's suprisly easy low physical damage and slow. You only need to kill the center for a kill so splash damage isn't optimal if you want to clear it fast and with little damage/heals. Your 28 base is really 14 base. Since you can't attack each turn. Crowd control is pointless especially late game since most mobs will have armor to eat your splash and even mid and early game. The only possible good thing is it can clear perfect dodgers since you only have 1 token roll but many other weapons are a better choice for that too.

Just a basic broadsword which you can get early game does 28 base EACH turn. It also has a HR which doubles that base to to 50. So thats 100 base damage by the time you get your 28 base damage out. Not to mention damage multipliers you can get that damage to crazy amounts mid game where you will always 1 shot any enemy even with armor lol.

[Anxarcule]

@Jerry I do see your point and can't argue with your logic, but I just beat that run and my Scholar was using it for the majority of the game - I didn't feel like the reload significantly hurt that characters DPS. With his gear + sanctum he had 6 or 7 max focus and once I upgraded to the Golden Gun (which can also headshot for 2 rolls) I still felt the damage output against non-bosses to be scaleable as I could always use focus for a guaranteed hit as the scholars refocus skill helped recover what I spent.

The only time I swapped out to mage weaponry was for the final battle

[lingyun]

Originally posted by Anxarcule:

@Jerry I do see your point and can't argue with your logic, but I just beat that run and my Scholar was using it for the majority of the game - I didn't feel like the reload significantly hurt that characters DPS. With his gear + sanctum he had 6 or 7 max focus and once I upgraded to the Golden Gun (which can also headshot for 2 rolls) I still felt the damage output against non-bosses to be scaleable as I could always use focus for a guaranteed hit as the scholars refocus skill helped recover what I spent.

The only time I swapped out to mage weaponry was for the final battle

How to unlock golden gun in lore? I didn't find Golden Leprechaun in game. Can you tell me where is it?

[Jerry]

Originally posted by jlgl:

Originally posted by Anxarcule:

@Jerry I do see your point and can't argue with your logic, but I just beat that run and my Scholar was using it for the majority of the game - I didn't feel like the reload significantly hurt that characters DPS. With his gear + sanctum he had 6 or 7 max focus and once I upgraded to the Golden Gun (which can also headshot for 2 rolls) I still felt the damage output against non-bosses to be scaleable as I could always use focus for a guaranteed hit as the scholars refocus skill helped recover what I spent.

The only time I swapped out to mage weaponry was for the final battle

How to unlock golden gun in lore? I didn't find Golden Leprechaun in game. Can you tell me where is it?

I already unlocked it long ago. It probably was the lepricon pot that spawns randomly only spawns on land. If you fail it you will be attacked by one.

[Lensar]

Guns + Focus = OP

[ShadowDragon8685]

Blunderbuss, Gilded Blunderbus, and the cannons are absolute trash excepting in the case where you need to clear a mob of perfect dodgers. Splash damage is, as has been mentioned, utterly garbage since most enemies have at least one of high resistance or (relevant to blunderbusses,) high armor and most have at least middling armor which soaks up the bulk or entirety of splash damage.

Muskets, however, with their one-check piercing high-damage attacks are great alpha-strike weapons. Especially with a Hunter (or two Hunters) with these weapons, you can quite reliably knock one or two enemies out of the fight before they even have a chance to act.

One needs no defense against a dead opponent. And especially on the overworld, with Hunters (or other ambushers, since the muskets add Elite Ambush,) you can easily isolate and nuke down even very, very tall enemies before they get to act at all, and even against camps you can still pick the most threatening foe, nuke him fast, and then have one hunter (the one who initiated the ambush) ready to fire again the second turn.

[ShadowDragon8685]

I feel the need to revise my earlier post: the splash guns are definitely not trash, though the muskets are by far superior.

Guns have high base damage, such that they're still effective against moderately armored enemies in situations where, say, a 2h axe would not be. Remember, whilst you might consider a gun's base damage to be 1/2 the list value, this is a gross oversimplification. Against an armored foe, a normal weapon reduces its damage twice, whilst the gun only reduces it once. A 20 base sword against 15 armor will only do 10 damage every two turns; a 30 base damage gun will deal 15.

Additionally, guns benefit more from critical hit chance thanks to their high base damage, meaning a crit will spike their damage up, often enough up OHKO.

Lastly, the handguns are one-handers, meaning you can equip a shield.

[Lensar]

Originally posted by ShadowDragon8685:

Guns have high base damage, such that they're still effective against moderately armored enemies in situations where, say, a 2h axe would not be. Remember, whilst you might consider a gun's base damage to be 1/2 the list value, this is a gross oversimplification. Against an armored foe, a normal weapon reduces its damage twice, whilst the gun only reduces it once. A 20 base sword against 15 armor will only do 10 damage every two turns; a 30 base damage gun will deal 15.

Additionally, guns benefit more from critical hit chance thanks to their high base damage, meaning a crit will spike their damage up, often enough up OHKO.

Well, guns have several advantages:

- Low die count (1 or 2)
- Pierce
- Relatively high damage

The downside is:

- DPS is halved due to need to reload after each shot.

There are some other minor differences. Guns provide better alpha damage. Braelynn's might do 28 damage every attack at two dice, while a musket would do around 38 damage once every two attacks. However, the 38 up front alpha damage can be situationally much more important than the higher dps of the sword. You can also fire the gun first turn, then switch weapons to something else.

High damage attacks (especially guns) benefit a lot more from a single crit than less damaging weapons with higher DPS. Buffs like Fahur's or HIld's Reserve also provide more benefit to high damage weapons, though not if you're fast enough to get two attacks with the buff.

+damage and +physical attack bonuses, however, are much more effective on weapons that attack each turn. Guns essentially only get half the bonus due to skipped turns reloading. In fact, the faster your attack, the more you benefit from things like Black Candy or the Fake Beard with +4 damage.

All in all, guns are solid and can be extremely effective when used situationally.