Can pipes run reliably at full capacity ?

[HuMaNgUtAn]

No.. I'm not another person complaining that pipes are bugged. I have used them without problems since they were introduced.

However - I remember hearing ages ago that the issues some people have with pipes is due to "not accounting for backwash" and that you should never run them at full capacity to compensate for variable flow rates.

I'm building a turbo fuel power plant and it would be very convenient if I could run it with a full 600 per min mk2 pipe, but don't won't to commit to it before I get a definite answer so...

Can pipes run at full capacity without issues ?

[Lawn-Mower]

yes

EDIT: I'll elaborate a little - ensure the usual: numbers match and properly primed (sloshing/backflow can not occur under these conditions). The MKII floating point bug is no longer a thing apparently.

[Kryten]

Oprindeligt skrevet af HuMaNgUtAn:

(...)
Can pipes run at full capacity without issues ?

Yep, working good in my game. (I do things as precaution to prevent possible issues tho, not sure if always needed. )

[ThanatosX]

Once they are full, they are stable if your numbers are good. They start to slosh around and starve if you start them up carelessly.

[HuMaNgUtAn]

Thanks all

[>< V ><]

Bump.


Yes, the answer is yes.

[HuMaNgUtAn]

Update - in the last few days I have seen a few reddit posts and a couple of new Youtube vids all claiming that a consistent 600 per minute is still not possible with mk2 pipes.

In my factory I had 600 heavy oil residue feeding 20 Turbo blend fuel blenders with one pipe. The pipe was fully pre-filled and the refineries feeding it are all working at 100%.

It seemed to be working fine for a while but I soon noticed that the last 2 blenders on the line were occasionally changing from green to yellow due to a lack of heavy oil residue - and consequently some refineries also turned from green to yellow due to heavy oil residue slowly building up inside them.

I fixed this issue by feeding the Blenders from both ends of the line instead of just from 1 side and now it works flawlessly.

So it seems to me that pipes (at least mk2) cannot run flawlessly at full capacity,

[Wolfgang]

As far as CSS is concerned, MK2 pipes are working as they should. If you think they aren't, make a post on the QA site, explaining in very good detail what the exact issue issue is, how your setup is (include screenshots) and also include a link to a download of your save file.

["Donut☆]

Oprindeligt skrevet af HuMaNgUtAn:

Update - in the last few days I have seen a few reddit posts and a couple of new Youtube vids all claiming that a consistent 600 per minute is still not possible with mk2 pipes.

In my factory I had 600 heavy oil residue feeding 20 Turbo blend fuel blenders with one pipe. The pipe was fully pre-filled and the refineries feeding it are all working at 100%.

It seemed to be working fine for a while but I soon noticed that the last 2 blenders on the line were occasionally changing from green to yellow due to a lack of heavy oil residue - and consequently some refineries also turned from green to yellow due to heavy oil residue slowly building up inside them.

I fixed this issue by feeding the Blenders from both ends of the line instead of just from 1 side and now it works flawlessly.

So it seems to me that pipes (at least mk2) cannot run flawlessly at full capacity,

I've had the exact same issue with trying to run MK1 pipes at full capacity. I thought it was my fault back then so I started a habbit of never using the pipes at full capacity.

I've also tried the method I call pipe bridging and it works for me.

Instead of this:

[input]____|__|__|__|__|__|__|

doing this:

[input]____|__|__|__|__|__|__|
........................|______________|

[HuMaNgUtAn]

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3348045091

I don't suppose that this screenshot is much help but I can assure you that all of the pipes are mk2, All of the Heavy oil residue refineries (on the right) were working at 100% before I connected them to the blenders and there is no elevation change in the pipe network. Also there is only a fairly short section of pipe that requires a full 600 per minute flow.

Oprindeligt skrevet af "Donut☆:

Instead of this:

[input]____|__|__|__|__|__|__|

doing this:

[input]____|__|__|__|__|__|__|
........................|______________|

Yes this how I fixed it. I too will no longer be trying to run pipes at full capacity.

[Cypher]

Useful tip regarding building a fuel generator plant:
Fuel generators are unusual in that they will fill with fuel before even being connected to the power network. Most if not all other buildings require power before their inputs start working.
So I tend to get the (rocket fuel) manufacturing finished and working first, as well as all the pipe network. Then I start adding fuel generators and connecting them to the fuel supply but *not* to any power network. This basically means they and the entire pipe network are full with fuel before I start cabling.

[Bobucles]

The loop solution is basically splitting up your 600 pipe into a pair of 300 routes. Makes sense, just do that, instead of one monster manifold split it up first thing and feed 2 lines.

[HuMaNgUtAn]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Bobucles:

The loop solution is basically splitting up your 600 pipe into a pair of 300 routes. Makes sense, just do that, instead of one monster manifold split it up first thing and feed 2 lines.

Well sure.. but we shouldn't HAVE to do that and this issue has surely wasted a lot of peoples time and effort.

[Mozzy]

Instead of worrying about theoretically possible, I'm far more interested how to get it to work easily and reliably for myself, with minimum of effort if possible.

So for me, the 600 flow = Mk2 pipe = theoretical perfect system solution that in reality doesn't work that way sometimes is simple. Instead of worrying about when it will work and won't, I use 100% for sure solution. Not for everyone, but even somewhat OCD like myself, I'm totally ok with it.

TLDR = take 600 max input and subtract 5% at last output stage, downclock one or couple machines to match this 5% slosh / pipe dual flow / wonky behavior and call it a day. 100% solved.

Example Solution - at end of chain of crude oil -> heavy oil residue -> fuel -> fuel generator or other last process user machine -> down clock by 5% to account for pipe sloshing and misc throughput loss.

Even with proper valves, buffers, etc setup, I'd rather just dial this simple downclock once, and never worry about issue again.

Example, my 600 crude oil in one Mk2 pipeline -> gets turned into 1600 diluted fuel via blenders -> routed via 3 Mk2 piplelines to 80 fuel generators - theoretical max 600, 600, and 400 pipe lines.

The 400 pipeline has zero issue to every worry about. But for those 2 Mk2 pipelines carrying 600 diluted fuel each -> 5% is 30 fuel, so at beginning of each set of 30 fuel generators, I downclock two generators to 50%. This saves 20 fuel. It's not quite the 5% = 30 fuel, but I found it works for me. To be totally safe, 3 of 30 generators could be downclocked to 50%.

Why downclock 3 and not turn off just 1 or 2? Because if totally off, there won't be constant demand in the system, and far upstream, the initial refiners processing crude oil into HOR will start to go into idle instead of just running at less than 100% each. The idle stop is really bad because it takes time to throttle back up, which leads to more fuel limit problem. To prevent any upstream machines from actually idling, and just go into lower output mode %, I find downclocking the ultimate end process machines to be best way.

Anyway, not really ideal if you're after that 'perfect' solution or just to see if the 100% max of Mk2 piples can be achieved, but personally I'm fine with thinking for all of 2 seconds to calculate whatever is 5% of whatever flow rate I'm using at end stage, and downclock by that amount. And never worry about problem again.

[>< V ><]

On the left are 20 rubber refineries requiring 600 m3 of oil supplied by one mkII pipe.
On the right are 20 plastic refineries requiring 600 m3 of oil supplied by one mkII pipe.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3334203918

All machines work at 100% efficiency. Here is a screenshot of the last refinery in the manifold.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3334203953

These 2 mkII pipes of oil come from the west lake area.

This is their origin.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2930101827

I pump them up the cliff.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2930101799

To the base.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2930101766

Into the base.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3334203870


I can understand some issue with floating point calculations, but even on these long lines, I can get 100% efficiency with no valves, no buffers.

If your piping is good, then shut down the last 2 or 3 machines in a manifold and let the others fill. Then turn machines on one at a time, letting each fill. I usually have to do this to get these long lines to work.

Water has no friction and once sloshing happens it will occur indefinitely. You, the human, have to interject to stop it. If you don't then you won't carry 600 m^3 of water and may even make a post in the forum that pipes don't work.

[Blue Wraith]

Answer is no if we're talking about manifold setups. If you prefill everything, they will run full speed for a long time. But eventually the last few machines in a line will run intermittently and/or a producer will run intermittently with its output blocked. That applies to both MK1 or MK2 pipes. Workarounds were previously mentioned (multiple pipes, loops, feed both ends, alt recipes) but basically involve avoiding full pipe manifolds.