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Bir çeviri sorunu bildirin
Bu konu kilitlenmiştir. 
Tartışma Kuralları ve Yönergeleri
Bu iletiyi bildir
https://www.reddit.com/r/SatisfactoryGame/comments/mqrs0j/introduction_to_logic_gates_using_conveyor_belts/
Or if you want to have it for Update 7 specifically:
https://www.reddit.com/r/SatisfactoryGame/comments/zjxjdi/logic_gates_blueprint_library_improved/
And for those with no engineering or problem solving ability beyond "just tap more nodes/sink your excess", any attempt to critique the game on its merits as an engineering game is a personal attack against their taste (and therefore, them.) Part of engineering is discerning not only the "optimal" solution for the task (and I use scare-quotes there because any engineer knows that everyone has a different idea/value-set that decides what's optimal), but also the most practical.
Logic gates are probably not the most practical solution in a game with infinite resources; but for anyone who gives a damn about building the 'perfect' factory that hums like clockwork? They're clearly the 'optimal' solution for neat and tidy automation that will hum along without needing intervention and manual checking-up-on. As you say, wire up some blinking lights to the master control room and let your factory itself tell you where there's a problem, likely what it is... and best of all, you can fix it (or at least temporarily pause it so it stops getting worse while you do fix it) by throwing a few levers.
It's so tiresome constantly hearing the "just go with the lowest-common-denominator solution!" in a game that's supposed to be a sandbox of automation on a grand scale. I think that many players -- and even some of the devs -- have confused the meaning of "grand" with the meaning/concept of "absurd overkill"; I mean look at how many people say to never use overclocking on constructors because those shards could go towards MOAR MINING, and instead suggest building a dozen constructors and splitters in order to achieve what 2 constructors + 1 assembler + 1 power shard could so much more easily do.
Logic gates (and the logical extensions they would bring to control over machine rates and other controls) are a way to automate away the tedium of managing the massive factories that this game wants us to build; and that idea is anathema to the kind of players whose values are "more for the sake of more!" (aka Bigger is Always Better) rather than "let's build the best factory we can."
I keep saying that I bought this game in the hopes of finding fun/interesting/engrossing problems to solve, and "build a bigger factory" is not an interesting problem. Once upon a time I might have been suckered into letting it become an engrossing problem; and I might have even had fun with it... when I was 8. Any massive, complicated, impressive thing looks like fun when you're 8, lol. But since then, having grown up a couple of decades, I've learned to appreciate the value of an elegant solution... and I find it depressing that a game called satisfactory has to intentionally avoid any chance at elegant solutions unless they also happen to be maximalist solutions because anything that isn't inherently maximalist just highlights how woefully inelegant the underlying design concept of the game is.
Factorio gets around it by giving you a different world each time; Dyson Sphere Program avoids it by giving you so many levels of automation and abstraction to play with (and in) that you'll never run out of chances to tinker and improve. But Satisfactory has 1 world map, a bunch of clearly preferable solutions to the limited number of design challenges that it poses, and then a whole lot of grind to stop players blowing their way through those limited design challenges in a matter of hours or days (in order to drag out towards the 1k+ hrs, a significant portion of which is manually repeating things that could easily be automated away.) And the irony is that giving us logic circuits to play around with would open up a whole other layer of tinkering and perfectionism that would keep the game fresh for those engineers among us for many hundreds (maybe thousands?) of hours -- you can always work to improve the efficiency of your fully-automated factory segments by improving the design of their automation in tandem with their physical layout; before we even get into the truly crazy projects like "robust autonomous delivery system for required raw resources and components, delivered via trucks (via automated stations that switch their drop-off destination based on logic signals) laid out like a realistic highway and urban roadway system, with realistic traffic control" -- that's the kind of project a person could sink thousands of hours into! The ultimate virtual model truck/train set, where everything from the mines to the powerplants to the trucks themselves and even the truck factories all really work!
Satisfactory doesn't let you dig down into the detail of things in that satisfying way, unless the detail is "exactly how many of X will it take to do Y?" -- and that's pretty basic algebra. I want a sandbox, not a spreadsheet with extra steps; logic control is one of the few things that would provide a missing link without having to overhaul the whole 'economy' of the game. And the best part for me, personally, is that I'm not the kind of engineer-minded person who would reach for that particular set of tools as a first resort... but merely having the option to use them would prompt me to try more complex designs, knowing that if I can't make it work neatly then I can always fall back on "stuff it, make a logic circuit handle the math/balancing for me." Because then, when I look out over my factory, I'm not seeing its "flaws" (the big ugly wasteage line going to a sink, reminding me that I never figured out what to do with a certain byproduct; or the half-empty belts for no visibly good reason) -- instead I'm seeing how the signal travels from one machine to another and gets that half-empty belt moving; how one machine fills up and the input line automatically switches to start sinking the excess inputs. That at least looks like having achieved a "completed" build, something I can be satisfied about.
You failed to keep it simple and now need programming to make it efficient again. That doesn't make sense.
Everything you don't need to make something work is a cost prevented.
And now you ask for a choice where you can spoil the efficiency of your factory and then compensate the lack of efficiency caused by your build style with another addition to the game.
That doesn't make sense either.
Have you even tried to follow the conversation. :-(
do
you
want
to
ac
tu
al
ly
BUILD with these logic gates?
Describe a use case. Work through a thought experiment. Show us the problem and how your concept of the implementation of logic gates solves it.
Many people have played this game front to back just fine without logic gates, myself included. I have not see any use case for a system of changing parameters of a factory based on predetermined condition changes. I have never seen operating conditions change at all.
If this is just a way of avoiding having to use the existing mathematics represented by belt speeds, clock speeds, splitters, and mergers, I'm going to be very disappointed.
tldr : Satisfactory is use or sink - which is inefficient from start. They very second you are overproducing you lose the game - please read on, this is not an anti-Satisfactory post or answer.
Its not what I want to build, but more what could I build. However, you asked for a scenario, I shall try to explain mine, or what lead me to write this OP :
I have a single Manufacturer building producing 2 Adaptive Control Units. It has 3 inputs, one of which is fed by a single conveyor, splitting at the end into two conveyors. This one Conveyor is fed from a Warehouse, where I collect my Computers and HMF. I have a minimal Computer Factory, making 10 per minute. I make a fair few HMF. My train picks up the Computers and delivers them to my Warehouse, the HMF go straight to the Warehouse. When the Warehouse runs out of Computers, the conveyor still delivers 60 HMF per minute, thus clogging up the conveyor, so that my Computers ultimately don't get through. I end up (if I don't watch closely) producing no Adaptive Control Units.
Yes, I could use splitters that split the feeding of HMF to 1 per minute, but that would ultimately need a minimum of 4 splitters and 5 mergers to get 1 on a conveyor per minute. (I might be wrong), which is in effect not efficient. I don't want to be wasting my Produce on a Sink.
A logic gate could be used in at least 2 different ways :
1. Hey, I stopped working because I dont have any Computers anymore.
2. Hey, there are no Computers left in the Warehouse, please stop delivery of the HMF
3. Hey, Up the Computer Production temporarily, I am running out.
4. That train of yours, wait at that Computer Loading station until I need you again, but still only load 60, and whilst you're at it, stop the Computer production for a while.
The fact that I cannot control how much Storage I can use doesn't make the idea easier. (Think of Factorio with the X on storage - use only these empty stacks).
It's possible that you are now disappointed, but as I implied in the 3rd answer - I loved Factorio (800+ hours, still do), however I'd rather play Satisfactory bc I have a "midrange" RTX 2070 and enjoy the ambience of Satisfactory. My brain needs more and wants to work with SPS & Logic, not purely with Spreadsheets & Maths. I can however do all adequately.
At the end of the day, I will surely get over 3000 hrs, even 5000 hrs on Satisfactory, with or without Logic. It hasn't bored me once, taking a break from a game every now and then is a normal process.
However, I feel that Logic Gates would be an ideal expansion or addition.
OK. Clarification question on this scenario. So instead of feeding Comp, AW, Circ, and HMF into the manufacturer on their own independent belts (the manufacturer has 4 inputs for a reason) you want to just run sushi belts all over the place and create some sort of super complex logic control system to manage this? What exactly is gained over having 4 belts coming out of your centralized warehouse into the manufacturer?
I can see uses for logic gates around dynamic train routing in some edge cases but the provided use case makes no sense as the premise sounds like some less than ideal choices made earlier in the production chain are causing issues. It would be far easier and more efficient to fix the earlier portion of the production chain.
Also, why would your warehouse run out of computers unless you personally removed some number of computers from the production chain manually? The benefit of logic gates and thus programming in general is the ability to accept variable inputs and make appropriate decisions based on the values. However in Satisfactory, the inputs will always be the exact same numbers unless the player interferes in the first place. Once a production chain is constructed, nothing is variable except player actions.
Say that to real world engineers. I quit.
YetiChow already posted a beautiful essay on this problem, but I'll summarize his speech: If you're satisfied with just a bunch of "nX + mY = Z" problems, please grow up and challenge to the more complex problems. Nobody finds that really "challenging" after 8. You can dynamically reroute inputs and outputs to keep your production line fully functional, which works far more purposes and situations, and is more interesting and satisfying way to solve the problem. Sure, only if your brain capacity is more than that of 8.
Also, as you said, player actions are variable. You're the player. Why won't you makes some unexpected, unplanned changes, when you're playing a game? Do you really want to be as static as the infinite and certain production rates of Satisfactory? This sounds very counter-intuitive. You play game to be active, not passive.
This is a game with a certain style. I laid out a good option for EXACTLY what you want (Factorio Space Exploration mod, lots of logic for your big brain ideas) yet you don't want it. This screams to me that you will never be happy with any product. If they added any logic to Satisfactory it would not be enough, or not the kind you want. Stop whining.
Good day, goodbye.
This amounts to a self imposed challenge, though. A problem you create for yourself so you can solve it. It would otherwise be a simple line to setup with vanilla tools and techniques, even without sinking anything.
Fundamentally, Satisfactory does not have the sort of changing circumstances that logic gates would be helpful for adapting to. I would point to X4 as a great example with its simulated economy. Here, though, it's a static map with static resources fed into static recipes to reach static goals. The only change that can happen is oscillation in your production lines, and that only happens if you haven't balanced them.
No, what we're trying to say is that there ARE a lot of situations where logic gates ARE useful.
Check YetiChow's post again: He said "any attempt to critique the game on its merits as an engineering game is a personal attack against their taste (and therefore, them.)" If your limited intelligence can't comprehend this, we're not criticizing anyone don't use logic gates. We're just stating some facts that if we have logic gates, it can make some interesting implementations. Too hard to understand? Sorry, your school didn't work for you.
Also check what I said again: I said "even when they come, nobody would force you to use them." So don't worry, this game would never gonna exceed your tiny brain. You can always play it as you have done like an elementary school kid.
Don't make me wonder if you can read at all - check my post again. I said "This game is still in development, so different demands from different players should reach devs to give them some insights to set their goal. That's the point of Early Access."
I have no interest at all how lazy some players are to learn anything. I don't force anybody to use logic gates. I don't say if you don't use them, your'e an idiot. Sure, if you don't understand them and trying to insist "Logic Gates can't do anything", then you're clearly a moron, but it's not my opinion but a true fact.
I'm just trying to let the devs know there are at least some players with more advanced brain functionality. It's totally irrelevant of you whining over "DONT MAKE MY GAME ANY MORE COMPLEX BCZ I CANT UNDERSTANT". Get back to school if you don't comprehend this.
Last of all, the entire argument of "We can do that without XX" doesn't make any sense at all. This is a sandbox game, where you play to realize your imagination. This genre of games are meant to have "As many options as you can imagine", not "tiniest options to make it barely work." Heck, what the Lizard Doggo or the Space-Giraff-Whatever things do in this game to solve any problem? And Boombox? Now yell at the devs that you don't need them.
Having more options are always better if you're making a sandbox game. Players like you would stick to the easiest way. Players like me would have fun with some advanced functionality. Big profit for devs.
So you're playing a sandbox game, even without a story at the moment, and saying "self-imposed challenges are irrelevant". That's a whole new perspective for me. Why do you turn this game on at all? Somebody told you to? Is this your job to buy some breads?
Everything in this game is self-imposed. People who want logic gates think without logic gates you can't impose challenges which is interesting and fun enough.
Also, even if you balanced everything out, things are very subject to change because this is a game with an active player, you. You constantly expand your base, get new resources, earn new recipes, and sometimes just build some funny things without any reason. Even with certain amount infinite resources, things are not all that static, if you PLAY this.
I SAY THIS AGAIN NOT TO BE MISUNDERSTOOD: We're not saying simple things are worthless OR devs should get rid of them. Even if devs implement a full-scale IDE where you can code some deep-learning machine AI, it won't interfere with any contents of this game nor block you to play in the most basic manner. We're saying we can have MORE options.
But I share this opinion. It would just be a feature for more creative gameplay.
Can use it, but dont have to.