Please explain how the pipeline system works?

[varset]

I have set up two Refineries, one processes bauxite into Alumina Solution and Silica. The other Refinery takes Alumina Solution from it, adds Coal and processes it into Aluminum Scrap.
The second Refinary produces water as a by-product, which I send to the first Refinary, adding the missing amount with a pump. By-product - 300, pump 150, resulting in 450, which the first plant needs. Everything seems to be fine with Aluminum Solution, in both cases 600. But the plants stop and restart only after I drain the water from the entire water pipeline network. I think this is the problem, but how can I solve it?
The pictures show all the figures.

First Refinary configuration:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3334693528

Second Refinary configuration:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3334693915

Water Extracotr configuration:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3334693439

If someone tells me, I will be extremely grateful.

[Evilsod]

You can attempt to screw around with the extremely messy fluid mechanics, and try to make the system prioritise the byproduct water using a combination of valves, pumps and by feeding it from above while the water extractor is fed from below.

Its been a long time since I built one, and I've just spent the last 5 hours creating it (to look cool) but I haven't got as far as actually producing anything from the scrap yet so it isn't running. I'm sure I'll have these same issues myself soon enough...

[SuperMeatBag]

There's too much water in the system -- it "clogs" the second refinery, and that stops the first from working as it fills with alumina. A (very) short-term measure might be some fluid buffers, but I don't think that would help for long. The long-term fix is to use up the water, either in coal generators or some other process that needs water as an input.

**Edit: Make sure also that your pipelines are MK.2 where needed, as you're extracting 450 per minute a MK.1 won't carry it all**.

[craigbeck]

I think your problem is further along the process. All looks fine up to your posted images.

[Acecool]

Here is my spaghetti alumina solution processor. Water over 2 4m walls into a container, valves, etc.. recycled water back in. 100% efficiency. only 1 pump running right now at 300 fully overclocked. 150 water coming from the plant.

https://steamcommunity.com/id/Acecool/screenshot/2479883856037994877/
https://steamcommunity.com/id/Acecool/screenshot/2479883856037995110/

note: My buffers are 100% full.


For further along as it could be the issue noted by craigbeck...

My alumina scrap goes into a smart splitter. Overflow is sunk, then it goes into a big container. This ensures this system doesn't backed up from alumina scrap. The alumina and water is load balanced.

[Evilsod]

Originally posted by SuperMeatBag:

There's too much water in the system -- it "clogs" the second refinery, and that stops the first from working as it fills with alumina. A (very) short-term measure might be some fluid buffers, but I don't think that would help for long. The long-term fix is to use up the water, either in coal generators or some other process that needs water as an input.

Yes, but the point is the system should be perfectly balanced. It just rarely is where fluids are concerned. Valid point about the pipelines, though I assume he'd be using Mk2 everywhere? I know I am.

Yeah, you can change the process to provide the water entirely from water extractors and just get rid of the byproduct in some way (petroleum coal generator, packaging it and sinking, sending it off to be used in another production like Wet Concrete, etc.), but that's really just a last resort when nothing else seems to make the system behave like it should.

[varset]

Originally posted by Evilsod:

and just get rid of the byproduct in some way (petroleum coal generator, packaging it and sinking, sending it off to be used in another production like Wet Concrete, etc.)

Getting rid of excess and by-products is not a problem, you can use anything - a container, a smart divider, etc., but with liquids everything is complicated. I wanted to do it correctly and optimally, but I will probably just add another pump and a couple of control valves. This will definitely work, but...

[varset]

Originally posted by Acecool:

note: My buffers are 100% full.

What are buffers?

[SuperMeatBag]

Another point I neglected to mention, and I don't know if everyone already does this or not, pumps prevent any back-flow in systems even if unpowered. I do that a lot to avoid some of the issues.

[ramonpontes]

I think the best solution in your case is to discard the water produced in your second refinery, and use another pump to feed the first. You can use many recipes to mix water with other ingredient to produce a solid output and sink it.

But, if you want the system to behave totally balanced, you may pack all the water outputs (from the pump and the second refineryproduct) and use conveyor belts and spliters to guarantee that the flow don't stop, and use smart splits to get rid of any excess. Then you should unpack the water to feed the refinery.

[SuperMeatBag]

Originally posted by varset:

Originally posted by Acecool:

note: My buffers are 100% full.

What are buffers?

Fluid buffers. They come in two sizes and hold a certain amount of whatever the pipes are carrying. Think of them as batteries for fluids.

[varset]

Originally posted by SuperMeatBag:

There's too much water in the system -- it "clogs" the second refinery, and that stops the first from working as it fills with alumina. A (very) short-term measure might be some fluid buffers, but I don't think that would help for long. The long-term fix is to use up the water, either in coal generators or some other process that needs water as an input.

**Edit: Make sure also that your pipelines are MK.2 where needed, as you're extracting 450 per minute a MK.1 won't carry it all**.

Judging by the fact that the system starts working after I bleed the water from the pipeline - yes, the problem is in blockages. But why? How does this happen? 450 is required. The pump gives 150 and 300 by-products from another plant. Total exactly 450.

I changed the pipes to Mk.2, but the problem remained.

[varset]

Originally posted by SuperMeatBag:

Originally posted by varset:

What are buffers?

Fluid buffers. They come in two sizes and hold a certain amount of whatever the pipes are carrying. Think of them as batteries for fluids.

That's it. Bad translation... In my game this thing is called a Cistern, Tank. That's exactly what I use it for, as a fuel storage. But yeah, it's good as a buffer too, thanks for the idea.

[varset]

Originally posted by ramonpontes:

I think the best solution in your case is to discard the water produced in your second refinery, and use another pump to feed the first. You can use many recipes to mix water with other ingredient to produce a solid output and sink it.

But, if you want the system to behave totally balanced, you may pack all the water outputs (from the pump and the second refineryproduct) and use conveyor belts and spliters to guarantee that the flow don't stop, and use smart splits to get rid of any excess. Then you should unpack the water to feed the refinery.

This looks much more complicated than a second pump for a second refinery) And I just wanted to simplify it - everything worked out so well.

[SuperMeatBag]

I will hazard a guess that it has something to do with how fluids move -- as someone else noted above the game mechanics are not perfect. I design around this and don't have much trouble. Maybe a buffer or two will help you, but maybe not. Your arrangement of pipelines can also affect things, two "masses" of fluids can end up fighting each other which clearly isn't ideal.

[varset]

And yet - what to do with the waste water? I can't drain it into the lake - it's not environmentally friendly. But if I connect it to a Coal generator or another Blender, won't the same problem appear there?