Any tips for megafactories?

[Aeronark]

Hey so i have really big plans for my world, but i'm concerned about performance and game stability. It's pretty much certain i will have to upgrade the pc, but what about the game?

My plan is to have 16 giant factories scattered around the world. They would use up all of resources on the map apart from iron, coal, copper and limestone because there is just way too much of that stuff around. I have it all planned out down to every single item, drone and train. I'm also pretty big into decoration, and while i try to be mindful of the object count, sometimes you gotta make some curves with foundations...

So my questions to those who have made similar save files in the past:
- How taxing is it on the hardware?
- Does the game handle it well? (is there any lag in belts/pipes, generally just numbers that are computed?)
- Did you use any performance mods? If so, how much did it help?
- I know there is some hard limit to the number of objects, which is INT_MAX, but i know you can bypass it rather easily. Is this an issue or not at all?
- Did you make any optimizations to the way you build?
- Did you just build large platforms with machines or did you also decorate everything (i'm mostly interested in the correlation of object count and performance)

I would be pretty sad to spend 1000 hours working on this only to find out that i can never finish it. So i'm hoping some of you can share some experiences and things you learned about the game making these 2k hour save files.

Thanks for any responses!

[Mr.America]

Here's your protip #1

Fully OC machines reduce your factory size by 60%. There is most likely enough power to do so with the lesser machines and extractors.

I personally never managed to get to more than 10-20% of the map's ressources used, but there are a bunch of guys who do and post screenshots (Killfrenzy (FIN) is often in the steam screenshot section for satisfactory), you may want to pm them.

[DanGames]

I make the wet minerals and with trains I sort them into the dedicated "megafactories". My goal is 10 machines for each product (probably impossible)

[buchanant]

Alright, I can wade into this one. Here has been my observations:

Hardware performance is affected by proximity and visual line of sight. So, if you can see it, your computer has to deal with it. However, if you have two mega factories right next to each other, say within high render range, your computer will deal with that too.

In order to cut this down, I build each of my large factories about 20 to 30 tiles away from each other. I also use foundations to cut down the amount of visual rendering my computer has to do. My current strategy is to use alternating ramps straight up as a wall. Ramps have less render glitches than foundations and walls when you have a lot of them.

I also dont build way up in the sky if I dont have to. If I'm building below the top of cliffs, I'm good.

- How taxing is it on the hardware?
1.0 does really well with keeping up. However, if you are doing a bunch of schematics or schematic edits, this DOES cause memory leaks which will add up. I recommend restarting your game every 30 minutes when doing that. It will keep down the crashes. However, just having things running or existing is not a problem.

- Does the game handle it well? (is there any lag in belts/pipes, generally just numbers that are computed?)
Game handles it well. I do try and keep things from piling up though. So, try and limit your buffering where you can.

- Did you use any performance mods? If so, how much did it help?
I'm all vanilla.

- I know there is some hard limit to the number of objects, which is INT_MAX, but i know you can bypass it rather easily. Is this an issue or not at all?
I've heard it does, However, I've built on at least half the nodes on the map and not run into it. I'd say you are fine.

- Did you make any optimizations to the way you build?
See above. I use ramp foundations as walls to cut down on the visual rendering. Helps to build them as schematics.

- Did you just build large platforms with machines or did you also decorate everything (i'm mostly interested in the correlation of object count and performance)
I'm a multi layer platform builder. Again see above. The more you compartment your factories, the less performance issues.

[buchanant]

Last tip:

For the end game: Power slug EVERYTHING! If you can go from 100% to 200-250% effeciency, it will cut down on the number of factories you need to build!

[Metalhead123]

For a Megabase you would create a bus line feeding in all the resources, The bus line has to run a long and I mean a long way across the map . You need a storage area and a sink. Don't think micro and small in this game. Build multiple floors. Have a logistics line at the bottom. Keep copper and Iron seperate or you will get spaghetti junction.

Factorio is way easier to plan Megafoctories. Satisfactory will take thousands of hours and cause a lot of frustation. You spend more time tearing down your builds than you do building. This needs balancing.

[🌺💗Tazzamorous💗🌺]

As someone who has (and is still) building a massive mega-factory...

Ursprungligen skrivet av Qualifications:

• My save is 21MB.
  
• 1,100 hours (many have more than this, but this is, quite literally, non-stop building so would be equivalent to 2-3k on a normal save).
  
• It has 20,000 buildings.
  
• NO overclocking.
  
• 1.6TW max power production, 360 active nuclear reactors.
  
• 700km of conveyors.
  
• 150km of pipes.
  
• 200km of trainlines with 1000 platforms.

...these are the following tips I would give you from what I've learned during my time.

Ursprungligen skrivet av Aeronark:

Hey so i have really big plans for my world...
My plan is to have 16 giant factories scattered around the world. They would use up all of resources on the map apart from iron, coal, copper and limestone because there is just way too much of that stuff around. I have it all planned out down to every single item, drone and train. I'm also pretty big into decoration...

Tip #1: Set your plans out and stick to it. What you laid out is a great idea but don't let scope creep blow your plan out of proportion. Stick to it.

Tip #2: If you want to consume all the resources (and have no other goal around it) then you can use the resources you excluded in alt recipes where they are consumed in large quantities to give better rates/ratios.
e.g. Cloudy Diamonds will consume 480 limestone/min for a better coal ratio.

Tip #3: Decide on how important decorations will be to you. Decoration will add objects and slow down your game. It doesn't matter early, but later this will represent a significant impact to performance. Decide now, if you are prepared to sacrifice this or not. If you are, then build NO decorations until the rest is done, then see what performance you have left. If you aren't, then build it as you go, so the performance impact can be tracked.

Tip #4: Decide on what your rules will be for overclocking. You can use overclocking to SIGNIFICANTLY reduce your building count which will give you big performance improvements. This will consume a heap of extra power though.

Ursprungligen skrivet av Aeronark:

...but i'm concerned about performance and game stability.

You should be. I have had growing performance issues for some time. My tick speed has gradually been reducing since about the 500 hour mark. I am at the point now where the game cannot run buildings/conveyors at the stated rates.
e.g. My Mk6 conveyors run at 1152/min.

This has knock-on effects for any system that was designed to run above it. Not to mention that it is now impossible to run all Mk3 miners at 1200/min. They sit at about 96% as they backup and then stop periodically. I expect this will get worse as I continue building.

Tip #5: Reduce your total length of conveyors wherever possible. A conveyor isn't just it's own object. It is a permanent addition to the number of objects the game has to handle every tick in the form of items sitting on top of it.

• Can you use trains to move resources easily instead?
  Trains drastically reduce the number of objects per tick because they carry many stacks at once, instead of 1 item at a time.
  
• Can you easily use a load balancer instead of a manifold?
  Manifolds, by design, will have objects sitting on them all the time. This isn't an issue if it's short, but if it's large then consider a balancer instead.
  
• If you must use longer conveyors (4+ unbroken max length segments), break them up with storage chests. Only do this if you expect the conveyor to run at, or near, max capacity.
  This reduces the amount of operations the game has to do checking if one object on a conveyor has been stopped by the object in front. Instead it just pushes them into a chest and resets the dependency chain.

Tip #6: Bake a reduced conveyor speed into your initial design.

I did not do this, and I've had to battle reduced efficiency ever since. When I became aware of the issue I opted to set an arbitrary max rate of 900/min for a system. Everything i design (now) won't exceed that in anticipation of when my performance drops even further.

Honestly, this is the biggest thing I wish I had done from the start.

Ursprungligen skrivet av Aeronark:

- How taxing is it on the hardware?

Very. As soon as you get serious building expect your CPU to be maxed. As you keep building, your tick speed will go down to compensate. Give your computer the best chance to run the game when you get to this point. Don't have other stuff running in the background.

Ursprungligen skrivet av Aeronark:

- Does the game handle it well? (is there any lag in belts/pipes, generally just numbers that are computed?)

Yes. See Tip #5.

I cannot claim as much authority on pipes. I know that real fluid dynamics is insanely computationally intensive. I don't know how much the game mimics this though. By default, I opted to package all fluids and move them by conveyor etc. This eliminates the question entirely, as well as lets me move fluids far faster than a pipe.

Ursprungligen skrivet av Aeronark:

- Did you use any performance mods? If so, how much did it help?

Can't comment. I play with 0 mods. If I get to a point where my game cannot handle it anymore, I might have to look at these too.

Ursprungligen skrivet av Aeronark:

- I know there is some hard limit to the number of objects, which is INT_MAX, but i know you can bypass it rather easily. Is this an issue or not at all?

This is 100% an issue. Prior to increasing the limit myself it was my most common error.
It most often shows up if you build a heap in a single sitting. (commonly when spamming blueprints) More objects are used in building than, once built. I recommend you save and restart periodically if you are building a heap of repeated structures.

Tip #7: Increase your UObject count. It's in the engine.ini file. I'll link a thread here for you.
(For reference, at the time of writing, my world loads with ~700k objects. The default UObject max is 2.1M)
https://steamcommunity.com/app/526870/discussions/0/4629230582747971897/

Ursprungligen skrivet av Aeronark:

- Did you make any optimizations to the way you build?

Yes. Many. Most are covered in other tips.

Ursprungligen skrivet av Aeronark:

- Did you just build large platforms with machines or did you also decorate everything (i'm mostly interested in the correlation of object count and performance)

I decided early on that I would only decorate once everything was built. I have not placed decorations yet, outside of my HUB/chest area.
Realistically, how much impact this has, will depend on what you mean by 'decorations'.
e.g. are you encasing a factory in walls with lights and a roof with fancy pillars?
or just making it look neat by adding a few things here and there?

Tip #8: Bake a transport system for YOURSELF into the design. Both on a large scale and a smaller scale.

You do not want to be wasting time just moving around.
For my world I use pulse nobelisks to move large distances in a few seconds. Sometimes I ride my trains if I want a break. For smaller distances I have 'zoop loops' which is just a circular conveyor set into foundations which I periodically drop. Run on the conveyor and zoop + jetpack for quick and accurate travel.
You could achieve similar with hypertube cannon instead, or teleporters if you're prepared to go to the effort. Plan something though.

Best of luck building!

[MrBishop077]

1. For lots of moving things on belts and performance, out of sight is key. if a spot is laggy, put belts behind walls and under foundations and most of the lag will ease as well.
2. no matter how much space you plan .. it was probably to little of an area. It's almost better to have a "too empty" of a factory rather than to cramped. *its easier to "fill it in" rather than "fit it in".

3. If you are building an "All-in-Wonder" give your logistic floors extra space for growth. even if you have to go so far as to give your logistic floors their own logistic floors. ..,o.0,..

4. Comparison is the Thief of Joy.
Have fun with your build and do not worry that others are doing xyz. if you are having fun, whether it is an operating room clean or spaghetti and lasagna on the wall kind of build, The fun is the important part.

[Aeronark]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Mr.America:

Here's your protip #1

Fully OC machines reduce your factory size by 60%. There is most likely enough power to do so with the lesser machines and extractors.

I personally never managed to get to more than 10-20% of the map's ressources used, but there are a bunch of guys who do and post screenshots (Killfrenzy (FIN) is often in the steam screenshot section for satisfactory), you may want to pm them.

Yeah I learned this with a fuel setup i'm making. 480 fuel generators sure is easier to build than 1200...

[Aeronark]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Danbyaglun:

I make the wet minerals and with trains I sort them into the dedicated "megafactories". My goal is 10 machines for each product (probably impossible)

That's very much possible. The only product in my factory that i won't have 10 machines of are AI Expansion servers.

[Aeronark]

Ursprungligen skrivet av buchanant:

Last tip:

For the end game: Power slug EVERYTHING! If you can go from 100% to 200-250% effeciency, it will cut down on the number of factories you need to build!

Thanks a lot for the tips! I'm planning on doing decor, just not going too heavy on it. The comment about keeping everything close to the ground caught my attention, as a lot of the stuff i have planned is pretty tall. Might have to reconsider a bit.

[Aeronark]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Metalhead123:

For a Megabase you would create a bus line feeding in all the resources, The bus line has to run a long and I mean a long way across the map . You need a storage area and a sink. Don't think micro and small in this game. Build multiple floors. Have a logistics line at the bottom. Keep copper and Iron seperate or you will get spaghetti junction.

Factorio is way easier to plan Megafoctories. Satisfactory will take thousands of hours and cause a lot of frustation. You spend more time tearing down your builds than you do building. This needs balancing.

I have trains planned and 16 separate factories. This should ease the performance issues as well as remove the need of a main bus, like they do in Factorio. Personally i really hate the idea of these floating lines just completely disregarding the surface and everything, so I wont be doing that.

[Aeronark]

Ursprungligen skrivet av 🌺💗Tazzamorous💗🌺:

As someone who has (and is still) building a massive mega-factory...

Ursprungligen skrivet av Qualifications:

• My save is 21MB.
  
• 1,100 hours (many have more than this, but this is, quite literally, non-stop building so would be equivalent to 2-3k on a normal save).
  
• It has 20,000 buildings.
  
• NO overclocking.
  
• 1.6TW max power production, 360 active nuclear reactors.
  
• 700km of conveyors.
  
• 150km of pipes.
  
• 200km of trainlines with 1000 platforms.

...these are the following tips I would give you from what I've learned during my time.
.
.
.

Thank you very much for your detailed answer!

The goal is not to use up all of the resources in the world, there is just way too much iron, limestone and copper in the world for that. The other resources I plan to use almost 100% of.

I'm pretty big into decorating, so this will be hard for me... But i hope that overclocking can balance it out. I will keep it in mind and try to keep the decor lower rather than higher.

I will definitely be overclocking, but after reading your comment, i might just end up overclocking almost everything... Power shouldn't be a problem realistically. I'm working on a 300GW rocket fuel power plant and a 1TW nuclear is planned. That in combination with ~8 alien power augmenters and 20 alien power matrices should be fine.

Really interesting strats with the conveyors, didn't know load balancers were better or that you could use storage containers to increase performance. Of course i use trains wherever possible, but even the stations have long belts leading into them and within factories it will be all belts.

The tick speed will likely be a huge problem, as I designed everything with max item input/output in mind. Redesigning everything would likely mean starting from scratch, which I really don't want to do. Do you think it would be wise to just continue assuming everything works at max capacity and end up with inefficient factories? Otherwise, can I assume that normal/impure nodes will still output at their respective max speed?

I have also recently given up on pipes and went for packagers instead. You mentioned you have 360 nuclear reactors, do you just have those at water level or do you also package the water? It's an absolutely absurd amount of water needed, so I'd like to know what your strategy is because i have a nuclear power plan similar in size planned.[\b]

My decorations usually include encasing factories, bits here and there, details... So i hear you and i will leave it to the very end.

I just have hypertube launchers everywhere i need to go, so im fine on transport.

[Aeronark]

Ursprungligen skrivet av MrBishop077:

1. For lots of moving things on belts and performance, out of sight is key. if a spot is laggy, put belts behind walls and under foundations and most of the lag will ease as well.
2. no matter how much space you plan .. it was probably to little of an area. It's almost better to have a "too empty" of a factory rather than to cramped. *its easier to "fill it in" rather than "fit it in".

3. If you are building an "All-in-Wonder" give your logistic floors extra space for growth. even if you have to go so far as to give your logistic floors their own logistic floors. ..,o.0,..

4. Comparison is the Thief of Joy.
Have fun with your build and do not worry that others are doing xyz. if you are having fun, whether it is an operating room clean or spaghetti and lasagna on the wall kind of build, The fun is the important part.

I definitely struggled with 2. on my first build but lesson learned... and 4. Kept comparing myself to the insane stuff I see on youtube but i've learned that i enjoy the process of building and the end products as well, so that's all that matters. As for 1., floors should hopefully do the trick. And 3., if i ever do a logistics floor, i'll definitelly keep it in mind!

Thanks for the tips!

[🌺💗Tazzamorous💗🌺]

Ursprungligen skrivet av Aeronark:

Thank you very much for your detailed answer!

You are most welcome! Happy to help, where I can, when someone asks a high-quality question!

Ursprungligen skrivet av Aeronark:

The goal is not to use up all of the resources in the world, there is just way too much iron, limestone and copper in the world for that. The other resources I plan to use almost 100% of.

I'm pretty big into decorating, so this will be hard for me... But i hope that overclocking can balance it out...

You can probably freely decorate if you aren't going to consume ALL the resources. Avoiding excess resources like you said will drastically reduce your building count but more importantly, your total objects requiring processing. It's probably fine to decorate, though I'm confident you will still have performance loss before the end.

Ursprungligen skrivet av Aeronark:

Do you think it would be wise to just continue assuming everything works at max capacity and end up with inefficient factories?

That's a gameplay choice for you to answer. The only thing I can tell you is, if you have designed everything with max 1200/min conveyors in mind... there is a 99.999% chance that this won't be realised. You simply aren't going to get that flow-rate. What the reduction in efficiency means to you is only something you can answer. Don't rebuild if you don't want to. I haven't rebuilt my 1200/min designs myself. Dunno if I will. It'll be the last thing I do if I decide to do it.

Ursprungligen skrivet av Aeronark:

Otherwise, can I assume that normal/impure nodes will still output at their respective max speed?

Yes. They'll be fine as long as the attached conveyor exceeds their max output. The Mk3 miner (@250%) doesn't run at max because the Mk6 conveyor is impacted by performance loss meaning the miner can't empty. The miner itself still tries to run at max (internally backs-up over time then stalls at max stack size).

Ursprungligen skrivet av Aeronark:

I have also recently given up on pipes and went for packagers instead. You mentioned you have 360 nuclear reactors, do you just have those at water level or do you also package the water? It's an absolutely absurd amount of water needed, so I'd like to know what your strategy is because i have a nuclear power plan similar in size planned.

I built my entire nuclear facility above water. So at the 'ground' level it's just a sea (pun intended) of extractors that package the water. Lifts then shuttle it vertically to two floors of reactors above. See pics that follow, side view outlines the facility in red. Sorry for crappy quality, I play on both reduced load distance (hence the missing, or weird building models) and reduced visual quality (bug with shadows that started in 1.0 forcing me to do this one). Mostly this is all in the interest of improved performance though.

Keep in mind, none of these are overclocked. So you will be able to build with significantly less than I chose to (if I had known about the future performance issues I would have overclocked from the start).

As a reference, I consider my factory ~30% build, and I'm currently consuming ~25% of all nodes on the map (though not 100% consumption of said nodes yet). Accidentally, planned my aluminium flow-rates incorrectly, which wrecked all the plans that were to rely on it. Tip #?: Know where your bottlenecks will be and plan accordingly. lol

Side profile:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3372578905

Reactor block 1 & 2 (supports 90 total reactors) water extractors:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3372578560

Whole build (NE corner only) overview: (centre structure has 4 levels of verticality, 12x4m foundation blocks between each)
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3372578450


Best of luck! Make a thread and do progress pics if you like. The community is (mostly) pretty good here, It could be a fun way to journal your adventure.

[Ryzilynt]

Ursprungligen skrivet av 🌺💗Tazzamorous💗🌺:

... or teleporters if you're prepared to go to the effort. Plan something though.

You can use teleporters with little to no extreme effort. You can set-up an extremely modest singulaity cell plant attached to a dimensional depot. This way you can always have a stack on your person. Build a main and a satellite and every location you want to teleport to.

Just drop in 2 cells and BOOM!

Extremely efficient.