Alt recipes - can they unlock before reaching the tier?

[zOldBulldog]

I am a bit confused with Hard Drive alternate recipe unlocks. Do the alt recipes show up ONLY once you unlocked the main recipe? Or is it just a matter of MaM progress?

For example,
Circuit Boards unlock at tier 5, and I have the Silicon Circuit Board alternate recipe unlocked that only requires Copper Sheet and Silica... both of which are available at tier 2. But I can't remember when I got the alt recipe. Did I get it at tier 2... or did I get it at tier 5, even though its ingredients are only tier 2 ingredients?

[Fenix]

It's based off tier unlocks or MAM unlocks
Example
Silicon Circuit Board
Tier 5 - Oil Processing OR
MAM Quartz Research - Quartz

The wiki has the list here
https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/wiki/Hard_Drive

[Kage Goomba]

Depends on your definition of early.

I've gotten Pure Alloy Recipes in Tier 2-3 before even getting access to Refineries.

[kimba-rip]

it's down to what hard drives you pick up from drop pods....

[zOldBulldog]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Fenix:

It's based off tier unlocks or MAM unlocks
Example
Silicon Circuit Board
Tier 5 - Oil Processing OR
MAM Quartz Research - Quartz

The wiki has the list here
https://satisfactory.wiki.gg/wiki/Hard_Drive

I see where the Hard Drive Research says that Silicon Circuit Board is unlocked at tier 5 OR MAM Quartz Research, and I do have all of the Quartz tree completed in the MAM. So, that is probably where I got it from.

But what puzzles me that the Circuit Board or the recipe aren't listed anywhere as a reward/unlock in the MAM Quartz Research tree. Maybe it is just a failure of documentation.

But the important thing is that based on that it seems that the Circuit Board can indeed be unlocked and produced at tier 2. Weird, but cool.

[Fenix]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von kimba-rip:

it's down to what hard drives you pick up from drop pods....

While True you can get some things early from MAM research, and luck from RNGesus

[Fenix]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von zOldBulldog:

But what puzzles me that the Circuit Board or the recipe aren't listed anywhere as a reward/unlock in the MAM Quartz Research tree. Maybe it is just a failure of documentation.

That is because it isn't listed, as you need to get it from a random draw for the HDD pool.

[Doc✪Hollywood]

In SCIM you can lock and unlock all alt recipes, MAM stuff, etc. individually.

[Redlegoguy1]

I have noticed there seem to be a few that can become available at times that are maybe not intended. Notably dissolved silica can unlock if you have a tier 7 milestone unlocked, but it requires nitric acid which isn't available until tier 8. It seems like maybe it was incorrectly matched to sulfur acid instead perhaps. Presumably it's not intended tied to the blender unlock, because you need the blender to produce nitric acid anyway, so one possibility is that it was initially planned to use sulfuric but then that was changed after the recipe availability was already tied to the sulfuric milestone.

[PhailRaptor]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von kimba-rip:

it's down to what hard drives you pick up from drop pods....

The drives in the pods do not have specific recipes tied to them. They are basically just a charge that gets you a pull from the available pool, and you choose 1 option from that pull.

The metaphor is that you're pulling slips of paper out of a bowl. Every time you unlock a Milestone, recipes related to the item products from that Milestone are written on slips of paper and added to the bowl. For example, when you unlock Basic Steel, the Solid Steel Ingot recipe gets added to the bowl. When you process a Hard Drive in the MAM, the game will select 2 slips from the bowl for you to choose from, with the ability to reroll, throwing both back in the bowl and pulling a second time. As you make selections, you thin out the pool. In this way, you can manipulate what Milestones you unlock to minimize the RNG of getting a specific recipe out of the pool, by adding as few slips as possible to the bowl.

This is even easier to do now in 1.0 as well. There's an extra button in the Drive selection screen that lets you make the decision later. This will save the 2 slips pulled out of the bowl, for you to choose between at a later time. But if you run another Hard Drive, those 2 recipes from the first drive are no longer in the bowl. They've been set on the shelf above it under the other Hard Drive. So it's even easier to manipulate the RNG to obtain a specific recipe.

[Doc✪Hollywood]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von PhailRaptor:

So it's even easier to manipulate the RNG to obtain a specific recipe.

Well, the easiest is that you don't touch anything new till you have the alt recipe that you want, for instance the alt rotor or the alt screw recipe.

Concretely that means do NOT acquire caterium, quartz, etc. and don't research them in the MAM before you unlocked the alt recipe you desperately want.

Because if you unlock caterium and quartz stuff etc. new alt recipes get added to the bowl.

Ask kLuns, he can explain you all the details, he is the expert. Give him my regards.

[zOldBulldog]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Gordon✪Gekko:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von PhailRaptor:

So it's even easier to manipulate the RNG to obtain a specific recipe.

Well, the easiest is that you don't touch anything new till you have the alt recipe that you want, for instance the alt rotor or the alt screw recipe.

Concretely that means do NOT acquire caterium, quartz, etc. and don't research them in the MAM before you unlocked the alt recipe you desperately want.

Because if you unlock caterium and quartz stuff etc. new alt recipes get added to the bowl.

Ask kLuns, he can explain you all the details, he is the expert. Give him my regards.

Actually, I like exploring and unlocking MaM research items as early as possible.

My reason for wanting to figure out what gets unlocked early through the MaM is that I think I figured out a decent "first base" design that lets me build it from "just unlocked platforms" to "unlocked trains", and I would like to structure it "by tier".

I've restructured my tier 0, 1, 2 stuff to this design and I was trying to figure out whether Circuit Boards belong at the end of 2 or in tier 5 (assuming unlock through the MaM and the alternate recipe).

But truth to be told, since I started this once I unlocked part of tier 5, no matter how careful I am I must have made a few mistakes. To get it right and save the blueprints for posterity I might just have to start over from scratch in a new save once I finish this playthrough. It might be the only way to be certain.

[kLuns]

Caterium and Quartz alt recipes become available when you unlocked the very first research button. It's a bit strange to get fused wire/quickwire before unlocking quickwire in the mam.

Pure recipes unlock with the coal power milestone because you get water. It doesn't feel right because you need the oil processing milestone in order be able to use those recipes.

The circuit board gets unlocked with the oil processing milestone and therefore the alternates for circuit board are locked untill you unlock oil processing.

If you have a main save with all alternates you can "cheat" by making blueprints of machines with a specific recipe and copy those blueprints to a new save where you don't have the recipe unlocked yet.
In this way you could use the electric motor alternate in phase 2 while you actualy need nuclear power unlocked in order to make electromagnetic control rods.

[zOldBulldog]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von kLuns:

Caterium and Quartz alt recipes become available when you unlocked the very first research button. It's a bit strange to get fused wire/quickwire before unlocking quickwire in the mam.

Pure recipes unlock with the coal power milestone because you get water. It doesn't feel right because you need the oil processing milestone in order be able to use those recipes.

The circuit board gets unlocked with the oil processing milestone and therefore the alternates for circuit board are locked untill you unlock oil processing.

If you have a main save with all alternates you can "cheat" by making blueprints of machines with a specific recipe and copy those blueprints to a new save where you don't have the recipe unlocked yet.
In this way you could use the electric motor alternate in phase 2 while you actualy need nuclear power unlocked in order to make electromagnetic control rods.

So, the circuit board alt recipe that only depends on tier 2 items does not really unlock until you unlock rubber anyway.

Thanks for the clarification.

[Doc✪Hollywood]

Hi kLuns

Long time no see!

Ursprünglich geschrieben von kLuns:

Caterium and Quartz alt recipes become available when you unlocked the very first research button. It's a bit strange to get fused wire/quickwire before unlocking quickwire in the mam.

Pure recipes unlock with the coal power milestone because you get water. It doesn't feel right because you need the oil processing milestone in order be able to use those recipes.
...

Thanks for explaining that picking up won't mess with the bowl/pool, but the first research will add new recipes.

Now my situation: I really want in a new session "+6 inventory slots", "cast screw", and the better RIP recipe (stiched?). And maybe, if possible a better rotor and modular frame recipe.

Now in order to get that as soon as possible: no quartz- and no caterium research and not unlock coal milestone before I have them, right?


Now here my question:

What about the other MAM branches: Alien Megafauna, Alien Technology, Mycelia, Nutrients and Power Slugs - Can I research them or will they also add new recipes?

And what about unlocking tier 1-4 Milestones? Apart from Coal and Part Assembly are there other milestones who add recipes?

Again, I talk only about the beginning of a new session to get these 3 (or 5) before mentioned alt recipes.

Thank you very much for your time and effort.