priority

[some moron]

Is there a way to specify "send oil first to this power plant / pipeline FIRST then ONLY when the power plant (and associated reserve tanks) do not need more oil THEN send oil into this other pipe for sinking.

It seems to me that the entire pipline is treated equivalently, that it will send oil to anywhere in the pipeline regardless of where it is, instead of say priority to the ones closest to the source. And I don't want that, I want to prioritize the power generators.

[Vectorspace]

You can use height to establish priority.
Fluids will fill lower pipes first (not sure if that's true for nitrogen gas).
If you have 2 pipes leaving a junction, and pipe 2 goes straight up to a height greater than any place that pipe 1 leads, then pipe 1 has priority and pipe 2 is only overflow.

[Suzaku]

Create an upward bend to act as an overflow pipe. Your pipes will only flow upwards when there is no space left on the same horizontal plain. That way oil should only flow to your sink process once all of your power plants are full. Note that your reserve tanks are quite tall, so you'll need the pipe to higher than them so the tanks fill up, or ignore the tanks altogether since, realistically, they just delay the inevitable if your system is flawed.

[some moron]

Hm interesting both of those I did not know that.
I know there is a limit to upflow, 10m I think.
1) If a flow goes up 5m, does it flow half as fast?
2) If I add one of those inline pumps, does it speed up flow? or does it merely allow the flow to overcome the 10m limitation?
3) I can't really tell how tall 10m is in this game, is there an easy way to see from the pipe bellows when either the pipe is getting near 10m or is already there? I am having piping problems and because of the rats nest I'm not certain whether it's from uphill, or insufficient supply, or prioritization, or what.

[cboath11]

Originally posted by some moron:

Hm interesting both of those I did not know that.
I know there is a limit to upflow, 10m I think.
1) If a flow goes up 5m, does it flow half as fast?
2) If I add one of those inline pumps, does it speed up flow? or does it merely allow the flow to overcome the 10m limitation?
3) I can't really tell how tall 10m is in this game, is there an easy way to see from the pipe bellows when either the pipe is getting near 10m or is already there? I am having piping problems and because of the rats nest I'm not certain whether it's from uphill, or insufficient supply, or prioritization, or what.

Unrats nest it. No, really redo that. Keep it simple and it will more than likely work.

[Maehlice]

Originally posted by some moron:

3) I can't really tell how tall 10m is in this game, is there an easy way to see from the pipe bellows when either the pipe is getting near 10m or is already there? I am having piping problems and because of the rats nest I'm not certain whether it's from uphill, or insufficient supply, or prioritization, or what.

If you're not sure whether you have sufficient supply, you should stop dead in your tracks and first work the calculations again to verify what you're doing even can work.

If a fluid is flowing downhill, its headlift is calculated from the elevation it started. BUT, Pumps reset that headlift.

If your plant is entirely beneath the source of the Oil, start by removing every single Pipeline Pump.

EDIT: This behaviour can be used to your advantage to simplify pumping fluids in a multi-elevation plant. Build a tower next to the fluid source equally as tall as your highest floor at the plant. Then, use Pipeline Pumps to pump the fluid(s) up to the top of that tower. From there, you can just run pipes to wherever and however, because the fluids retain the headlift equal to the top of that tower. FUN FACT: This is how water towers work IRL.

"Priority" is never an issue. As long as you're not trying to utilize more than you're producing, the system will eventually reach saturation and work at 100%. The larger the system, the longer it takes.

[Maehlice]

Originally posted by some moron:

I know there is a limit to upflow, 10m I think.
1) If a flow goes up 5m, does it flow half as fast?
2) If I add one of those inline pumps, does it speed up flow? or does it merely allow the flow to overcome the 10m limitation?

Production buildings outputting a fluid have 10m headlift by default.

Pipes have only two "speeds" (throughput). Pipeline Pumps only increase headlift so the fluid can be pumped to higher elevations.

[some moron]

1) I don't think I got a clear answer so I shall assume that fluid flows at one rate regardless of lift, so if it's not filling the plastic refinery, then it's because of insufficient supply, NOT because the fluid is slow because of the 5m lift.

2) So how is fluid distributed, is it equal such as for conveyor? For example if a pipe is split into three, does it flow equally to all three REGARDLESS of lift? So if one pipe/consumer has less fluid it does NOT draw more? And if one pipe is less lift it does NOT draw more?

3) And tanks, how do they work, does it draw 1/3 off that spltter, and then when the supply drops, at some undeterminable point the tank decides to back flow and empty into the other 3 pipes including, forcing oil back into the pipe it came from before the split?

Oh that doesn't make sense to try to calculate values UNLESS YOU ARE SINKING because they all have byproducts so if you aren't paying attention then the plastic or whatever backsup, stalls the production of HOV, and stalls the system. Even the fuel refinery has a byproduct that can shut it all down, regardless of calculations.

[some moron]

Originally posted by Maehlice:

Originally posted by some moron:

I know there is a limit to upflow, 10m I think.
1) If a flow goes up 5m, does it flow half as fast?
2) If I add one of those inline pumps, does it speed up flow? or does it merely allow the flow to overcome the 10m limitation?

Production buildings outputting a fluid have 10m headlift by default.

Pipes have only two "speeds" (throughput). Pipeline Pumps only increase headlift so the fluid can be pumped to higher elevations.

That is not true, I can sit and watch the throughput vary between 0 and 300m2/min
So for the first pipe, there are at least 301 speeds

[Maehlice]

Originally posted by some moron:

That is not true, I can sit and watch the throughput vary between 0 and 300m2/min
So for the first pipe, there are at least 301 speeds

I guess I should clarify that I'm talking about the maximum throughput. It should go without saying that the actual momentary throughput varies based on what you're producing as well as the slight ebb & flow fluids have. And, if you want to get really technical, there are more like 60 thousand speeds, because fractions.

Suffice it to say, pumps and elevation changes (within the headlift range) have no affect on production rates.

Originally posted by some moron:

1) I don't think I got a clear answer so I shall assume that fluid flows at one rate regardless of lift, so if it's not filling the plastic refinery, then it's because of insufficient supply, NOT because the fluid is slow because of the 5m lift.

Sorry; I'll try to be more clear. As long as you're within the fluid's headlift range, elevation changes don't affect the throughput. The "speed" of the system is affected only in that it has more length and volume to saturate.

You can cheat headlift by a couple meters, but doing so WILL decrease the amount of fluid produced/supplied.

Originally posted by some moron:

2) So how is fluid distributed ...

Fluids can get wonky, so the simpler we keep the piping, the better. Ideally, everything at the production level is at the same elevation.

Generally speaking, fluids behave how you'd expect them IRL. They want to distribute equally at every junction and to fill from the lowest elevation first.

If a tank is in series with and at the same elevation (or higher) than its pipeline, it won't begin to fill until everything downstream has filled. Even then, if you've created an overflow downstream at 5m, it will only fill to halfway until that entire overflow section becomes saturated.

And on that note, yes, you can create overflows to give certain sections of the plant "priority" -- even when the whole plant is at the same elevation.

But, it gets real squirrely real fast, so definitely make sure you're hundo on the basics first.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2692970842

[Maehlice]

I'll add this separately, because its tangential to the idea of overflows and fluid distribution:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2321458622

It doesn't work, because the red pipe that's supposedd to act as an overflow ends at the same elevation as the primary green pipe.

It would work in real life, but to the game, all outputs of the junction (regardless of its rotation) "start" at the same single point. And when calculating distribution, the game is only concerned with that section's overall change in elevation (absolute value).

So, since the red pipe is calculated as starting and stopping at the same elevation, it functions exactly as if the junction was horizontal and the red pipe straight off its side.

To resolve the issue, the red pipe must be broken into two sections -- the first of which must end at a higher elevation than the primary green pipe.

[some moron]

Originally posted by Maehlice:

I'll add this separately, because its tangential to the idea of overflows and fluid distribution:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2321458622

It doesn't work, because the red pipe that's supposedd to act as an overflow ends at the same elevation as the primary green pipe.

It would work in real life, but to the game, all outputs of the junction (regardless of its rotation) "start" at the same single point. And when calculating distribution, the game is only concerned with that section's overall change in elevation (absolute value).

So, since the red pipe is calculated as starting and stopping at the same elevation, it functions exactly as if the junction was horizontal and the red pipe straight off its side.

To resolve the issue, the red pipe must be broken into two sections -- the first of which must end at a higher elevation than the primary green pipe.

Thanks that first one helps, and it should give me a way to prioritize. I don't think the descriptions mention how much height matters.

If I follow you on the second example, then it doesn't matter what happens to a pipe in between, all that matters is the beginning and ending heights?

If the max is 10m, how much space does each connection take, can I stack 9 pipe connectors and pipes on top of each other and they will work? or each connector takes more than 1m. I suppose I could figure that out myself but I'm still not clear why something doesn't work, when it doesn't work.

[Maehlice]

Height/elevation matters in that it must stay within the headlift range and because lower elevations fill first.

It matters for that first segment. What I mean by segment is a portion that can be wholly highlighted and deleted. If the first segment after the junction/cross ends at a higher elevation than the other connections, it will fill only after the other lower segment(s) have filled up to that elevation at which it ended. Since that first segment doesn't fill, neither does anything connected to it downstream. Thus, it functions as an overflow.

Stack 1m foundations next to your whatever to get a measurement. I think a Cross is like 2.5 meters, but I can't remember for certain. You also can't snap them to each other, so the extra slice of pipe between them necessitates that they take up more space than what they are anyway.

EDIT: Even stacking foundations, it's still hard to know exactly from where to start counting. Bottom of the machine? Bottom/Center/Top of the output? For the sake of sanity, either keep it well under 10m from the bottom of the machine and/or insert a pump before the first big elevation change.

If you were to stack crosses vertically, the lower cross should take priority over the next cross. And so forth and so on.

However, I'll stress again that fluid dynamics can get really weird. You might build something perfectly but still have it not work ... because reasons.

[Tallinu]

Originally posted by Maehlice:

I'll add this separately, because its tangential to the idea of overflows and fluid distribution:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2321458622

It doesn't work, because the red pipe that's supposedd to act as an overflow ends at the same elevation as the primary green pipe.

It would work in real life, but to the game, all outputs of the junction (regardless of its rotation) "start" at the same single point. And when calculating distribution, the game is only concerned with that section's overall change in elevation (absolute value).

So, since the red pipe is calculated as starting and stopping at the same elevation, it functions exactly as if the junction was horizontal and the red pipe straight off its side.

To resolve the issue, the red pipe must be broken into two sections -- the first of which must end at a higher elevation than the primary green pipe.

I'm really glad you added this, because it totally would have stumped me forever after reading that elevation was handled so realistically in other ways here.