trains don't seem very effecient

[Nekochan]

I mean I get it can move a lot at a single time, however it only has 2 in's and 2 out's so it's limited no matter what to 2 conveyor speeds per loader. Given the sheer space it takes up to do logistics for these things it seems far more efficient to just keep building conveyor towers. Just getting from the start zone on the original map west side to the red forest literally takes up half the map for the change in vertical.

[joe_schmoe_gamer]

But trains are fun!

[soldierboy0098]

I merge my items into a single conveyer so using mergers you can put a lot of varied items in the train per run, the trick is sorting them on the output sides.

[Nekochan]

Originally posted by joe_schmoe_gamer:

But trains are fun!

Programmer for train company, I get it. But I literally just realized how much space I was taking up preparing to put trains in when I can just slap a tower down.

[Nekochan]

Originally posted by soldierboy0098:

I merge my items into a single conveyer so using mergers you can put a lot of varied items in the train per run, the trick is sorting them on the output sides.

Eh, was thinking more along the lines of trains needing to deal with my Breaking Bad level of construction going on. All my t4 lines are over-saturated now that I've started building modular blueprints and I was looking for a new solution other than more lines.

[cywizz]

It depends how you use and design the train network. Yes, one station is limited to 1560p/m however you can add more stations. It is scalable this way in that you can add more stations vs add another 2 rows of belts.
Another thing is you can lay 2 directional tracks and run multiple trains on these rail network so you never need to lay conveyors again, etc.
It does take more planning, but with a bit of work it has its benefit over longer distances.

And it looks better than rows and rows of conveyors

[F'lar]

I have a train that goes to my oil processing area bringing back plastic, rubber & fabric. I split it into 3 storage containers after delivery /w a smart splitter. My train can also sit for a while whilst I use what I've collected. Thing that surprised me was how fast the dang things move. I was going up to the oil area in a hypertube that has a 'cannon' entrance and I saw the train pass me as I was headed up there! lol

[Nekochan]

Originally posted by cywizz:

It depends how you use and design the train network. Yes, one station is limited to 1560p/m however you can add more stations. It is scalable this way in that you can add more stations vs add another 2 rows of belts.
Another thing is you can lay 2 directional tracks and run multiple trains on these rail network so you never need to lay conveyors again, etc.
It does take more planning, but with a bit of work it has its benefit over longer distances.

And it looks better than rows and rows of conveyors

The horizontal space to go vertical is the big killer for me, if they had a cargo lift in the game it would make a huge difference, but also the load/unload speed isn't enough for a single bolt farm, taking up huge amounts of room for more freight seems like a losing battle.

[cywizz]

Originally posted by Nekochan:

Originally posted by cywizz:

It depends how you use and design the train network. Yes, one station is limited to 1560p/m however you can add more stations. It is scalable this way in that you can add more stations vs add another 2 rows of belts.
Another thing is you can lay 2 directional tracks and run multiple trains on these rail network so you never need to lay conveyors again, etc.
It does take more planning, but with a bit of work it has its benefit over longer distances.

And it looks better than rows and rows of conveyors

The horizontal space to go vertical is the big killer for me, if they had a cargo lift in the game it would make a huge difference, but also the load/unload speed isn't enough for a single bolt farm, taking up huge amounts of room for more freight seems like a losing battle.

Where there is a will, there will always be a way ;)

[Bookslayer10]

You can make any stretch of rail transport near infinite throughput by making your trains out of more carriages. Sure, each train station segment is limited in throughput, but you can make as many as you want. Just put the train stop somewhere where the horizontal space isn't needed and make short range belts from there; it's more complicated, but also incredibly scaleable compared to the effort you need to put in to add 4 more belt lines.

[Acecool]

You can add more trains to a line, so without adding more conveyors, etc.. you can get more. If you have one network, you can branch off to other stations, etc..

I have been using mk5 belts around, and I'm starting to convert into certain items before sending them down the line. I am considering trains but we'll see I guess..

[mansman]

Originally posted by cywizz:

It depends how you use and design the train network. Yes, one station is limited to 1560p/m however you can add more stations. It is scalable this way in that you can add more stations vs add another 2 rows of belts.
Another thing is you can lay 2 directional tracks and run multiple trains on these rail network so you never need to lay conveyors again, etc.
It does take more planning, but with a bit of work it has its benefit over longer distances.

And it looks better than rows and rows of conveyors

The break over point of train lines vs belts is complicated. First, the general throughput of a single freight car is dependent on the stack size of the item being transported and the time between pick ups:

               Time between trains and throughput
Stack Size       Optimum Time       -30s
        50     (86.5s) 1082/m      869.7/m
       100    (148.1s) 1296/m     1229.7/m
       200    (271.2s) 1416/m     1398.3/m

Because the belt flow is paused during the 25 second animation, the actual throughput is less than 1560/m; especially for smaller stack size items. That is assuming you can get your train timing down perfectly to the listed number of seconds. Even a small deviation of 30s too early has a serious impact on overall throughput.

Now let's look at belt throughput. The freight car requires 8m clearance horizontally and 7m clearance vertically (i know they clip through almost anything that's considered landscape but for our purposes this is good enough). In that space you can run 3 belts side by side and stack them 4 high. That's a total of 12 belts operating at 780/m (yes i know mk5 belts leak) for a total throughput of 9360/m.

To match the throughput of belts a single train line would require the following number of train cars to pass through every minute:

               # Cars
Stack Size        Opt     -30s
        50       8.65     10.8
       100       7.22     7.61
       200       6.61     6.69

Most people that I've seen run 1+4 trains. This means you need to have around 2 full trains travel through any given point of your rail line every minute to match the native belt throughput. Obviously trains are more flexible since you are able to transport different items easily. However if you are delivering a single item from one factory to another, you are almost always better off just belting it over than running a train.

[Illuminia]

It depends .... and bear in mind that many people won't need more than 1,560/min output from an item line. You'd have to be building an absolutely huge factory (or transporting screws) to consume more than 1,560/min of a single part.

Trains are great for making a "loop" that runs between multiple remote factories, transporting parts and final produced items between them.
It's the alternative for having intersecting miles-long conveyor belt snakes or bus walls between multiple factories.

Yes, the time it takes to lay out the track can be a big work effort - but you could say the same for miles of conveyor snakes or bus walls.

Personally, I'd rather lay a train line for 5-10 different items than 5-10 conveyor snakes or a 5-10 conveyor bus wall across the landscape. ..... but again, that's personal choice.

All those options are "build and forget", all those options require a lot of time and materials; with some parts that can be made easier via blueprints - but require lots of manual connections between each.
Trains at least are 1 connection (rail) between each blueprinted support pillar/etc; instead of 5-10 connections for a conveyor bus wall.

With trains, you can add another storage car to the end of the train after-the-fact, and only have to modify the specific stations that will be loading/unloading - you don't have to do anything to the rest of the path.

But yes, trains have a lot of annoyance with large vertical changes. Either an long climbing ramp, or a looping spiral resolves those, but neither are fun to build.


All said and done, Trains are just another logistics option that have different benefits and drawbacks ......

[Nekochan]

Originally posted by cywizz:

Originally posted by Nekochan:

The horizontal space to go vertical is the big killer for me, if they had a cargo lift in the game it would make a huge difference, but also the load/unload speed isn't enough for a single bolt farm, taking up huge amounts of room for more freight seems like a losing battle.

Where there is a will, there will always be a way ;)

I assume you mean the same solution everyone eventually gets to since there are no freight elevators in this game yet.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2936787642

[Tenzek]

The major benefit of trains is that once you have the basic line set up, adding more is as simple as adding stations and placing a train. You lay the track once and adding capacity from there only takes a minute. If you want to add more belts, you have to string each one the entire length of the distance traveled. Further, having these huge masses of belts will be a headache when you start to push the item limit. Trains are drastically less taxing to the item limit.

[Hades]

OP you're completely wrong.,

Each freight car has it's own in/outs... not an issue. And you can still use smart splitters to mix resource types into the same freight car.

The other thing you're not factoring in is distance.

In the starter biomes it might be easy to build conveyor runs... but if you challenge yourself to build your factory centre in the desert biome... far away from resources... a rail network is highly efficient at moving large quanities.