Mk2 Pipe-Bug

[Mogges]

Did anybody of the community hear gossips about solving the Mk2 bug for the pipes? It is still more than annoying that the calculation is far from being precise, especially when transporting over long distances. An example: you have 600 oil and distribute it to 10 refineries, making 10 x 40 liters of fuel; this does not work. The last 2 refineries never get their 60 liters of oil, even when having a fluid storage full with thousands of liters of crude oil..
When you have generators connected downwards you will have jumps in the production, always. So the only solution is overproduction, meaning feeding the 600 liters of oil only in 9 refineries and waste 60 liters of crude oil.
Any gossip about bugfixing?

[Wolfgang]

See here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fjkf1GJpYlw&t=73s

[Vectorspace]

Latest dev update on the mk2 pipe bug: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fjkf1GJpYlw

Edit: Wolfgang you beat me by 1 second :D
(ok, 31 seconds)

[Mogges]

Thanks! That´s more than a gossip then ;-)
2 Solutions if I got it correct: divide by 2 and change the numbers, so that you simply need only 30 crude oil and no longer 60 or correct the math behind it, right? I hope they will do solution 2, I don´t want to reconstruct everything.

[Vectorspace]

Originally posted by Mogges:

Thanks! That´s more than a gossip then ;-)
2 Solutions if I got it correct: divide by 2 and change the numbers, so that you simply need only 30 crude oil and no longer 60 or correct the math behind it, right? I hope they will do solution 2, I don´t want to reconstruct everything.

Solution 1 should not affect your factories. If they change the numbers by dividing by 2, they change ALL the fluid numbers - not just the recipes. Which means extractors will produce half as much, and pipes will only transport at half as much, and valve settings will be halved, etc. So everything should automatically be correct. At least that's how I interpreted what they said.

[Mogges]

But this is valid for solution 2 as well? If they do the correct math / calculations, all machines should work like intended.
And it is strange, that this bug does not occur everywhere. I have very loooooong 600 liter pipes, that work absolutely correct, on the liter exact.

[Wolfgang]

Originally posted by Mogges:

But this is valid for solution 2 as well? If they do the correct math / calculations, all machines should work like intended.
And it is strange, that this bug does not occur everywhere. I have very loooooong 600 liter pipes, that work absolutely correct, on the liter exact.

Sorry for the nerdy nitpicking but m³ ≠ L.
1 L = 1 dm³ (imagine milk cartons or a water bottle)
1 m³ = 1000 dm³ = 1000L

[Man's Best Friend]

I wonder if they could just internally halve the numbers, but double them back to "normal" in all the UI elements. Might save some complaining from people saying that they now need to double all their production, and ignoring that all requirements were halved as well.

[Mogges]

Listening to Jace, the problem seems to be more complex than imagined. I am no programer but cannot imagine that is is more complex to code a pipe with a "speed" of 600 compared to a conveyor belt with a speed of e.g. 780; it is technically the same. Imagine a belt having 780 parts / minute at the miner, but after 2 km distance only 720 / min reach the machine. This is the principle.

[Vectorspace]

Pipes are more complicated than that - the simulation is more than a simple belt-like flow speed. Each pipe segment has a capacity based on its length, liquid fills pipes from the bottom to the top and won't flow out of junctions until it reaches them, there is headlift, and pipes have a "slosh" effect in that liquid bounces back and forth.

More to it than a conveyor belt, where items simply move from start to end at a constant speed.

[Mogges]

Ok, but then I may ask: is this really necessary? For the player and functionality of the game it is enough if there is a fluid running from A to B with a certain speed. A slosh effect and a mathematically different capacity based on the length of the segment seem only to cause problems. On the one side it is great to have that kind of realism, but then it should work.

[Man's Best Friend]

I don't think the sloshing is intentional, but rather is an unintended side effect of allowing pipes to be bidirectional.

[Spaghetti Salmon]

I’m having problems with aluminium production: the refineries that process alumina into aluminium scrap and water often cease production because they’re full of water... despite my efforts to add valves and buffers, also reducing the input of fresh water from an extractor. I assume this is all related to ongoing complexities with fluids in the game. What a shame I can’t just allow any excess water to drain away!

[Wolfgang]

Originally posted by Bodger:

I’m having problems with aluminium production: the refineries that process alumina into aluminium scrap and water often cease production because they’re full of water... despite my efforts to add valves and buffers, also reducing the input of fresh water from an extractor. I assume this is all related to ongoing complexities with fluids in the game. What a shame I can’t just allow any excess water to drain away!

I have two substantial aluminium productions and both work fine (one producing 1440 Scrap/min, the other producing 1700 Scrap/min). The issue is somewhere in your system. Make sure that you don't back up on Scrap.

[Vectorspace]

Originally posted by Bodger:

I’m having problems with aluminium production: the refineries that process alumina into aluminium scrap and water often cease production because they’re full of water... despite my efforts to add valves and buffers, also reducing the input of fresh water from an extractor. I assume this is all related to ongoing complexities with fluids in the game. What a shame I can’t just allow any excess water to drain away!

I never quite got it to work with integrating the excess water into the mains supply either, except by using a variable input priority merge setup, which personally I didn't like: https://www.reddit.com/r/SatisfactoryGame/comments/ookl0c/psa_variable_input_priority_vip_for_pipes_exist/

Instead, my solution to the aluminium issue is to have two separate sets of machines - one set runs off the mains supply, and the other set runs off the excess water from the first (and its own). The second set is belted such that it has priority for coal/bauxite input and scrap output, and is clocked high enough that it needs slightly more water than it will get. This has never failed me.

[Wolfgang]

Originally posted by Vectorspace:

Originally posted by Bodger:

I’m having problems with aluminium production: the refineries that process alumina into aluminium scrap and water often cease production because they’re full of water... despite my efforts to add valves and buffers, also reducing the input of fresh water from an extractor. I assume this is all related to ongoing complexities with fluids in the game. What a shame I can’t just allow any excess water to drain away!

I never quite got it to work with integrating the excess water into the mains supply either, except by using a variable input priority merge setup, which personally I didn't like: https://www.reddit.com/r/SatisfactoryGame/comments/ookl0c/psa_variable_input_priority_vip_for_pipes_exist/

Instead, my solution to the aluminium issue is to have two separate sets of machines - one set runs off the mains supply, and the other set runs off the excess water from the first (and its own). The second set is belted such that it has priority for coal/bauxite input and scrap output, and is clocked high enough that it needs slightly more water than it will get. This has never failed me.

If you want to see how I do it check it out on my save file:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1knmt0OSPJVogO6znIjDabGfdD_0M0u9_/view?usp=sharing
Supplies are in a crate near the HUB, Ammo storage is behind the slew of power storages near the HUB, packaged fuel is where the big fluid buffers are. There is a Hypertube system that gets you to the primary Aluminium line (go to where is says "See" and then follow the Aluminium labels) in the Titan Forrest. My secondary Aluminium line is not connected in that save file but in my most current save file (along with a Hypertube by-pass to get directly to "See") but its production is labelled on the map.
Since I use the true Arachnophobia mode mod you might encounter spiders.
Edit: Filters can be obtained in my storage which you can get to by the Hypertube labelled "Lager" at the Hypertube HUB next to the HUB.
Edit 2: Replaced the link with the one to the new save file. Now the by-pass is there along with easier Hypertube access to stuff.