Factory is going idle due to excess fluid. Math is fine. (Picture linked)

[+Hyp.r]

Working on Space Elevator Phase 4 with my friend, and we've run into issues with a lot of our factories that require and produce fluids. Our latest problem have 5 Refineries, 5 Blenders, and 1 Water Pump. All of our piping is Mk.2, but that shouldn't matter for the amount of fluids we are pushing.

The 5 Refineries require 50 Water/m each to produce Sulfuric Acid. (250 Water/m required to run the Refineries)
The 5 Blenders produce 30 Water/m each as part of the Battery Creation Process. This water is then recycled back to the Refineries. (150 Water/m production)
The 5 Refineries are connected to 1 Water Extractor that is pumping out 90 Water/m. (90 Water/m Production)

This is how I understand the math.

Output: 90 Water/m + 150 Water/m = 240 Water/m
Input: 250 Water/m

Output: 240 Water/m
Input: - 250 Water/m
Net: -10 Water/m

Here is a screenshot of the pipe layout. https://i.imgur.com/CEs6V1c.png
Note that there is Valve at the Pipe Junction Cross of the Blender/Water Extractor. This is to prevent the Water Extractor from pumping towards the Blenders. This was only added after the first time there was excess water, but it's not a solution to the problem.

Even though we should be losing 10 Water/m, the Blenders will still fill up with excess water over time, and then the pipe network will need to be flushed for production to begin once again.

Had something similar happen a few days earlier with my Uranium Cell Production, and all the pipes had to be deconstructed and replaced before it fixed the problem.

I often run into these inconsistencies with Fluids that make late game production a chore. Is there something that I'm not understanding about how fluids work, or is there something I can do that doesn't involve tanking my Water Extractor production?

[McCloud]

Originally posted by +HyperFusedBlur:

and all the pipes had to be deconstructed and replaced before it fixed the problem.

...drives me up the wall...

Factory working for literally 5+ weeks real time, in hours. Then one day I MUST do maintenance (dismantle/replace) on all pipes for no reason at all then it's back to working for weeks again. It's gotta be some floating point error on load or something.

[Wolfgang]

Do your Blenders run at 100%? Because if they don't (because they get too little Alumina Solution and/or too little Aluminium casings) then the Sulfuric Acid backs up to the refinery, which fills up, stops which in turn makes the water back up.
These loops are great if everything is supplied at least in the exact quantities needed at all time. But as soon as there is the slightest disruption the whole process breaks down.

[Vectorspace]

If you look at the wiki for pipes, it describes how to build a priority pipe junction, such that the water from one pipe (the blenders) always has priority over the water from another (the extractor).

However, any system that recycles a liquid back to earlier in the process, I have never got to work reliably. My preferred method is to entirely split the mains water and recycled water, so that each feeds separate machines.
In your example, I would have
* Two refineries running off the water extractor supply, one underclocked so together they only use 90 water
* Four refineries running off the blender water, one underclocked so together they use 160 water
I've never had a problem with this method. The only disadvantage is you need an extra refinery or two. Though underclocking makes it more energy efficient anyway.

I use this same method for my aluminium production. After I learned about the priority pipe junction method I experimented with using it and a single pair of sloppy alumina/alum scrap refineries, instead of having two underclocked pairs with one running of recycled water. It worked, and used two less refineries, but used more power.

You could also use the aforementioned priority pipe junction method to route excess blender water to a refinery that makes concrete using the wet concrete recipe. to then be dumped into an awesome sink. That's the cheapest and simplest automate-able way of sinking excess water.

[+Hyp.r]

Originally posted by Wolfgang:

Do your Blenders run at 100%? Because if they don't (because they get too little Alumina Solution and/or too little Aluminium casings) then the Sulfuric Acid backs up to the refinery, which fills up, stops which in turn makes the water back up.
These loops are great if everything is supplied at least in the exact quantities needed at all time. But as soon as there is the slightest disruption the whole process breaks down.

Yeah the Blenders are running at 100% until they build up excess fluid. Both the Sulfuric Acid and Alumina Solution production are 1:1 with their usage. We don't see fluctuations in the efficiency until production runs idle because of the water. This typically how we've tried to build every factory we've worked on.

[+Hyp.r]

Originally posted by Vectorspace:

If you look at the wiki for pipes, it describes how to build a priority pipe junction, such that the water from one pipe (the blenders) always has priority over the water from another (the extractor).

However, any system that recycles a liquid back to earlier in the process, I have never got to work reliably. My preferred method is to entirely split the mains water and recycled water, so that each feeds separate machines.
In your example, I would have
* Two refineries running off the water extractor supply, one underclocked so together they only use 90 water
* Four refineries running off the blender water, one underclocked so together they use 160 water
I've never had a problem with this method. The only disadvantage is you need an extra refinery or two. Though underclocking makes it more energy efficient anyway.

I use this same method for my aluminium production. After I learned about the priority pipe junction method I experimented with using it and a single pair of sloppy alumina/alum scrap refineries, instead of having two underclocked pairs with one running of recycled water. It worked, and used two less refineries, but used more power.

You could also use the aforementioned priority pipe junction method to route excess blender water to a refinery that makes concrete using the wet concrete recipe. to then be dumped into an awesome sink. That's the cheapest and simplest automate-able way of sinking excess water.

Are you referring to the Overflow Valve section of the Pipeline page? If this is what you are referring to, I'll have to see how I can implement this into my factories.

Thank you for your notes on your factories. I am often too restrictive with myself when building factories. I try to build them as condensed as possible, with as few buildings as possible, so I end up blowing through my power shards. Should I decide to make another world, I'll try to be more open with my layouts to accommodate designs like this in the future.

[Mister Fabulous]

There are a couple things you can do that would only require fiddling with the pipes a little.

One of my favorite techniques lately is to feed "fresh" from one side and recycled from the other, with an unpowered pump before a buffer on the "fresh" side: https://imgur.com/rBeS1dc
The incoming rate doesn't matter. The lack of head lift from the unpowered pump will stop the incoming flow if it's less than the max pipe rate. If the buffer fills, that will stop the incoming flow and the internal buffers of the machined feeding the recycling will start to fill a little, but drain before they can back up.

Side note: Water flow doesn't make sense sometimes. Even with a lack of head lift, if the flow rate is maxed out, fluids will go way higher than they are supposed to. This is why I use the smaller buffer. It's 8m tall while the big one is 12m. If the big one keeps filling from the fresh side, that last 2 meters will take too long and the excess water from the recycling side will back up and stop the machines before the large buffer finishes filling.

As was mentioned in the wiki, you can try priority junctions: https://satisfactory.fandom.com/wiki/Pipeline Look for "Elaborate Pipeline usage manual" link, lession 11.

Or, you can try just slapping a valve set to 90 on the incoming side. If that still doesn't work, something else is going on with your pipe arrangement and screenshots may be in order.

[Stellar Remnant]

Use a head lift height fill limit. Place a small water buffer such that the water pump only has head lift to fill it half way, then connect the rest. This will ensure you always have room in the system. You might consider also adding a pump to the refinery outputs to ensure the water gets back in the buffer asap.

[Vectorspace]

I was wrong about the location of the info for a priority junction. You can find it here: https://www.reddit.com/r/SatisfactoryGame/comments/ookl0c/psa_variable_input_priority_vip_for_pipes_exist/

[Wolfgang]

Originally posted by +HyperFusedBlur:

Originally posted by Wolfgang:

Do your Blenders run at 100%? Because if they don't (because they get too little Alumina Solution and/or too little Aluminium casings) then the Sulfuric Acid backs up to the refinery, which fills up, stops which in turn makes the water back up.
These loops are great if everything is supplied at least in the exact quantities needed at all time. But as soon as there is the slightest disruption the whole process breaks down.

Yeah the Blenders are running at 100% until they build up excess fluid. Both the Sulfuric Acid and Alumina Solution production are 1:1 with their usage. We don't see fluctuations in the efficiency until production runs idle because of the water. This typically how we've tried to build every factory we've worked on.

What about the Aluminium casings? Are they also produced enough for that?

Though I personally would switch to the alt recipe "Classic Battery". No fluids needed and you get more out of it for the valuable resources you put in.

Edit: I am looking at the layout again and need to ask: Do you have valves on the pipes that lead from the blenders to the main collection pipe? Because I would personally put valves on them to really prevent any kind of backflow. Though I would personally also not collect the looping fluid in one pipe but in separate pipes. So one going from blender 1 to refinery 1, from blender 2 to refinery 2 and so on. So far these individual loops always worked on my end (all my Aluminium production is working that way and my current Encased Uranium cell production). The only issues I encountered is the occasional backup of fluid when I collect the outgoing fluid in one pipe. It happens, although rarely.

[bun E]

Split it so some machines use only recycled water and some only use fresh water, then set the ones that use recycled to slightly higher clock speed than they need. Either that or download fluid sink. Fluid duplication will happen no matter what until something is fixed on devside to make it more consistent. I'd just use overflow valve and fluid sink till the issues with duplication are fixed cus its kinda cringe to do liquid recycling otherwise rn cus perfect numbers aren't enough unlike the other 99% of the time you play the game