Combat Changes

[Bookslayer10]

With the exciting new additions to combat, there are more questions raised. It's known that enemy AI will be updated, but there is the opportunity for even more additions. There are a few things that need discussing.

First, are people even going to use the new ammo types? Will anyone automate mid-game rebar gun types, late-game cluster nobelisks, or nukes? Does anyone's experience with combat right now (theoretically) improve with new ammo?

What strategies in combat do people use, and are they fun? How will the new ammo types change peoples' strategies? How can new enemy types and AI be made to change peoples' strategies?

What other issues are there with the feel of monsters that can be solved by new features?

[umop-apisdn]

If explosive rebar will destroy rocks, then I may replace Nobelisks with them.

Other than that, my go-to at the moment is the Xeno-Zapper, or the Xeno-Basher when I get tired of hitting fireflies more than once.

Not sure what kind of updated enemy AI to expect; that may change the whole ball game.

[cswiger]

I don't see a point in the guns or ammo.

You can finish the game with the starting xeno-zapper once you learn the moveset of the wildlife, although the xeno-basher is a fine upgrade and nobelisks are fun too. The only strategy needed is jumping or strafe-circle-dodging. But you can build something to stand on if you like.

[umop-apisdn]

Originally posted by cswiger:

I don't see a point in the guns or ammo.

You can finish the game with the starting xeno-zapper once you learn the moveset of the wildlife, although the xeno-basher is a fine upgrade and nobelisks are fun too. The only strategy needed is jumping or strafe-circle-dodging. But you can build something to stand on if you like.

Aye, you can right now.

But if the AI/enemy behavior scripts are getting an upgrade, that might change.

[Bookslayer10]

Originally posted by umop-apisdn:

Originally posted by cswiger:

I don't see a point in the guns or ammo.

You can finish the game with the starting xeno-zapper once you learn the moveset of the wildlife, although the xeno-basher is a fine upgrade and nobelisks are fun too. The only strategy needed is jumping or strafe-circle-dodging. But you can build something to stand on if you like.

Aye, you can right now.

But if the AI/enemy behavior scripts are getting an upgrade, that might change.

Do you think that is a good thing though? Should the zapper be all you need to defeat every enemy fairly well? Is going zapper only more or as fun as using the other weapons?

[Aven]

Originally posted by umop-apisdn:

Originally posted by cswiger:

I don't see a point in the guns or ammo.

You can finish the game with the starting xeno-zapper once you learn the moveset of the wildlife, although the xeno-basher is a fine upgrade and nobelisks are fun too. The only strategy needed is jumping or strafe-circle-dodging. But you can build something to stand on if you like.

Aye, you can right now.

But if the AI/enemy behavior scripts are getting an upgrade, that might change.

It also opens up more opportunities for future developments in wildlife. If the player has access to better weaponry, the devs are less restricted in what they can add, although with how vocal some players are about the difficulty of the current creatures, I doubt the devs will be introducing anything that cannot be defeated by a foundation or a wall.

[umop-apisdn]

Originally posted by Bookslayer10:

Originally posted by umop-apisdn:

Aye, you can right now.

But if the AI/enemy behavior scripts are getting an upgrade, that might change.

Do you think that is a good thing though? Should the zapper be all you need to defeat every enemy fairly well? Is going zapper only more or as fun as using the other weapons?

To be fair, the only enemy I currently feel the need to upgrade from the Xeno-Zapper for is the Alpha Hog. The others can be cheesed by terrain and/or strategy relatively easily, with the fireflies topping my "actually annoying" list. Once you've fought enough of them, the combat becomes more of a dance; Charge in, Bap-bap, sidestep, one-two-three-four, run and jump-three-four, bap-bap-two-three-four, spin...

It all comes down to muscle memory and pattern recognition; so far, the patterns have been fairly unimaginative, albeit quite effective against newcomers who don't yet know the timings and motions.

For a while there, it seemed like we had two or three threads a week either asking for the mobs to be nerfed, or asking for them to made more challenging, depending on which side of the learning curve the poster was on.

[lpnlizard27]

Im all for more toys. But there also needs to be situations to use those toys. Or rather a hole for the peg to fit into.

The current weapons were already more than a match for the available wildlife.

Unless creatures get harder, or new enemies are added, it almost feels like we've been given a solution to a problem that doesn't exist yet.

Besides i can't imagine some of these newer ammo types being unlocked before the basic stuff. They're bound to cost some expensive resources.

Basically by the time a player can craft these we'll already be well acquainted with enemies and have little use for them other than to try it out and chuckle.

Maybe they could adjust the spawn randomness of creatures, where occasionally you get like a wandering herd of 12 ram types or randomly come across 5 alpha spitters on my hike. Giving me a reason to carry a nuke or turbo ammo.

[Bookslayer10]

Originally posted by umop-apisdn:

Originally posted by Bookslayer10:

Do you think that is a good thing though? Should the zapper be all you need to defeat every enemy fairly well? Is going zapper only more or as fun as using the other weapons?

To be fair, the only enemy I currently feel the need to upgrade from the Xeno-Zapper for is the Alpha Hog. The others can be cheesed by terrain and/or strategy relatively easily, with the fireflies topping my "actually annoying" list. Once you've fought enough of them, the combat becomes more of a dance; Charge in, Bap-bap, sidestep, one-two-three-four, run and jump-three-four, bap-bap-two-three-four, spin...

It all comes down to muscle memory and pattern recognition; so far, the patterns have been fairly unimaginative, albeit quite effective against newcomers who don't yet know the timings and motions.

For a while there, it seemed like we had two or three threads a week either asking for the mobs to be nerfed, or asking for them to made more challenging, depending on which side of the learning curve the poster was on.

One option is changing AIs for all the the alphas so you need to upgrade like the alpha hog basically forces you to. The question is, should there even be monsters that can't be cheesed/strategized against like that, instead requiring research and automation of weapons and ammo? Is it fun to cheese/strategize past everything, or to be stopped by alpha hogs?

[umop-apisdn]

Originally posted by Bookslayer10:

Originally posted by umop-apisdn:

To be fair, the only enemy I currently feel the need to upgrade from the Xeno-Zapper for is the Alpha Hog. The others can be cheesed by terrain and/or strategy relatively easily, with the fireflies topping my "actually annoying" list. Once you've fought enough of them, the combat becomes more of a dance; Charge in, Bap-bap, sidestep, one-two-three-four, run and jump-three-four, bap-bap-two-three-four, spin...

It all comes down to muscle memory and pattern recognition; so far, the patterns have been fairly unimaginative, albeit quite effective against newcomers who don't yet know the timings and motions.

For a while there, it seemed like we had two or three threads a week either asking for the mobs to be nerfed, or asking for them to made more challenging, depending on which side of the learning curve the poster was on.

One option is changing AIs for all the the alphas so you need to upgrade like the alpha hog basically forces you to. The question is, should there even be monsters that can't be cheesed/strategized against like that, instead requiring research and automation of weapons and ammo? Is it fun to cheese/strategize past everything, or to be stopped by alpha hogs?

I haven't picked a plant up in a long time; I use fauna for biomass (there are reasons, but that's a separate discussion). Being able to "handle" most mobs with the starting weapon is a core part of my strategy; if that is no longer the case then my tactics will need to evolve, and my strategy may change.

Is that good, or bad? Who can say for certain?

[SystemCraft]

I like explosives

[Bookslayer10]

Originally posted by umop-apisdn:

Originally posted by Bookslayer10:

One option is changing AIs for all the the alphas so you need to upgrade like the alpha hog basically forces you to. The question is, should there even be monsters that can't be cheesed/strategized against like that, instead requiring research and automation of weapons and ammo? Is it fun to cheese/strategize past everything, or to be stopped by alpha hogs?

I haven't picked a plant up in a long time; I use fauna for biomass (there are reasons, but that's a separate discussion). Being able to "handle" most mobs with the starting weapon is a core part of my strategy; if that is no longer the case then my tactics will need to evolve, and my strategy may change.

Is that good, or bad? Who can say for certain?

It would be a shame to get rid of the starting "murder everything for power" strategy, but a requirement for researching tech for weapons is probably more satisfying than just starting with all the animals readily defeatable.

[God of Snacks]

i just want to use the Nuke Nobelisk. Yall out here acting like this is serious survival mechanic implementations and I'm out here like "oh, these are gonna make funny memes."

[Yekkusu]

First: I think new ammo types are just more things for you to choose. I'm not here to say I should have LESS options, the more the better. I usually take the rebarb gun and throw it away as soon as I get the rifle, just because it's not that good, now I'll have more reasons to use that gun.

That being said: I do think that these new additions are not to make the game more dinamic or difficult, I think it's to make the game better. In a way, it's very annoying having to lose 5 slots or more just to have ammo, and burn through it because some enemies are tanks. xD The faster I can kill them AND continue making my factories, the better.

Really, Rebarb Gun is useless mid-game to late game, so having a shot-gun type ammo for that is awesome, and having a stun gun type of ammo is also very good in case you need to heal. What I am afraid is that they make the enemies more tanks than they already are, because there are no items in Satisfactory that raises your deffense and some enemies kills you with a single hit. That's very troubling.

I AM excited for being able to use my Hoverpack with my hazzmat suit because that's a must for nuclear.

[Tomcat]

We need new weapon types to clear these crappy trees that block our factories.

This is especially true once the biome update hits. We need to fast ways to clear all that tree junk.

[syphonax]

FALLOUT 4?