Waste of space? Help needed-

[The Konrad]

Everything is so overwhelmingly huge in this game.
Coming from Factorio and Hydroneer this game is frustrating me with it's convoluted structure.
I have a small puddle to put one huge water pump in there but I need three to power my 8 coal plants. Three not two.
Where?
There is no space. Everything is red.

And my coal deposits are an odyssey apart from my main base, and the jump pads don't cover enough distance and most of the time miss the mark, injure my character and the walking is tedious and not fun.
I don't seem to be able to built atop of each other, only resource silos stack but that doesn't help the situation at all.
I must be doing something wrong.
Did I mention that I can't find water.
And coal deposits are too far apart.
And manual refilling of Biofuel is a nuissance,
Power in general is a nuisance. That I need a tiny 4 Way pole to connect my power plants together feels not right.
That four coal Power Plants are barely enough to keep my 4 llittle mines and their factories running feels excessive.

What am I doing wrong?

[Suzaku]

Thinking too small, and worrying too much about setting something up. You know what needs to be done, so you just need to do it.

Get lots of concrete and make space for any machines you need. The game follows Minecraft rules in regards to building; physics means nothing, so build absurd and impossible structures as needed. Find other water sources through exploration, or even use a map online. Once your coal power is properly up and running, biofuel will basically become irrelevant. And look into obtaining Caterium, as it has a research tree for Bladerunners (faster movement, higher jump height, reduced fall damage) and Mk2 power poles (3 extra connections).

If walking is boring, quartz research has a buggy in it, and you'll soon have access to hypertubes once you complete the milestone for it.

[Maehlice]

Sadly, nothing. Logistics are big in this game. Just wait until you have to transport Bauxite and Nitrogen halfway across the world.

If you haven't already, grab some power slugs and research overclocking in the MAM. At the very least, you can turn one Water Extractor into 250%.

Otherwise, you're better off finding a bigger body of water and transporting the Coal over to it instead.

You can also research down the 'Caterium' line and unlock Mk.2 poles, which allow 7 connections. I also highly recommend purchasing "Wall Outlets" from the AWESOME Shop.

When building vertically, you have to construct and actual "building", such as with walls and floors. Pretty much nothing "stacks" in this game other than containers and belts.

[Tenebris]

If you can't find what you need in the area you're in, find it elsewhere. Power plants are flexible in their location, since you can just build powerlines out to where it is, instead of bringing the resources back to your main factory.

EDIT: Moreover, there's several locations on the map where there are multiple coal deposits right next to large bodies of water, practically begging you to use them for power generation

[The Konrad]

Hmmm, I don't feel it.
I don't want to explore or research yet, I want to build stuff, preferable on top of each other then expand from there once my base is 100% automated but the game doesn't want me to do that apparently. It took my ages to get to coal powerplant tech and now I still need to rely on bio-fuel because there isn't enough water around?
If I want to walk around and explore I would play Death Stranding, not a factory building game. Another problem is that my exploration is interrupted because I need to refuel my biofuel generators. It's not a game-play loop I'm keen on.

[Suzaku]

You're literally 1 step away from pure automation. Once those coal gens are up, your power requires no further input besides simply expanding to help run more machines. We're not asking you to explore the world; literally just to find 1 more puddle to help you achieve unlimited power.

[The Konrad]

It's not unlimited, it's 120 Coals per minute, meaning 8 Coal Plants with 15 Coal each, and three water extractors. This would normally be enough to power and water for several cities but apparently here it's barely enough for a handful of mining operations and creating a handful of concrete, some screws and copper wire.
Look, for its humongous size it doesn't seem to deliver, that's all. It feels like diminishing returns. I'm not feeling the inclination to expand because it's too tedious to do so. I don't want to explore because I need to watch over my factory and my gameplay loop is being upset I can't place things where I want and not having enough leaves to turn into bio-fuel.

[marcusaddamsson]

There's definitely a learning curve with this game. Research at the MAM will solve your power pole issue, and give you ability to 'scan' for more resources you will need. As far as power goes... yea. It sucks. If you're in the beginner starting location, there's a really awesome deep lake w two pure coal nodes too. It's northwest from your starting location... if you can get up in the air, you can see it 'cuz it's a 'pit' from a distance. That location will solve all your short-term coal power issues, and perhaps medium as well, if you overclock the coal nodes, or bring in some more from different location.

There's a number of QoL things you can do to make the experience better. Use travel tubes to go to semi-distant location, like the coal power plant you'll build at the above location. Blade runners are very nice and you can get them fairly fast if you know what you're doing. So spend more time with the MAM research thingie.

[Tenebris]

Originally posted by marcusaddamsson:

There's definitely a learning curve with this game. Research at the MAM will solve your power pole issue, and give you ability to 'scan' for more resources you will need. As far as power goes... yea. It sucks. If you're in the beginner starting location, there's a really awesome deep lake w two pure coal nodes too. It's northwest from your starting location... if you can get up in the air, you can see it 'cuz it's a 'pit' from a distance. That location will solve all your short-term coal power issues, and perhaps medium as well, if you overclock the coal nodes, or bring in some more from different location.

There's a number of QoL things you can do to make the experience better. Use travel tubes to go to semi-distant location, like the coal power plant you'll build at the above location. Blade runners are very nice and you can get them fairly fast if you know what you're doing. So spend more time with the MAM research thingie.

FYI, they aren't pure nodes, it's 4 normal purity nodes, and at least one has a bolder on top that needs to be blown up

[marcusaddamsson]

Originally posted by Tenebris:

FYI, they aren't pure nodes, it's 4 normal purity nodes, and at least one has a bolder on top that needs to be blown up

Ok, what he said. Sorry, haven't been there for a while... restarted in the northern start locale.

PS There's a few things in the Awsome shop that really help too. Like the wall outlets, since you can put the wall up, drop three outlets across top, erase the wall and you have a massive power connection point, especially if they're doubles...

[Tenebris]

Originally posted by marcusaddamsson:

PS There's a few things in the Awsome shop that really help too. Like the wall outlets, since you can put the wall up, drop three outlets across top, erase the wall and you have a massive power connection point, especially if they're doubles...

And Ladders, they are the best for exploring, much easier to build vertically to scale cliffs than any other method

[Mister Fabulous]

Originally posted by Gottkanzler Konrad:

Hmmm, I don't feel it.
I don't want to explore or research yet, I want to build stuff, preferable on top of each other then expand from there once my base is 100% automated but the game doesn't want me to do that apparently. It took my ages to get to coal powerplant tech and now I still need to rely on bio-fuel because there isn't enough water around?
If I want to walk around and explore I would play Death Stranding, not a factory building game. Another problem is that my exploration is interrupted because I need to refuel my biofuel generators. It's not a game-play loop I'm keen on.

You don't want to explore and expand and find the resources that will help you do what you want to do and reach fully automated power production.

Well then you're stuck with having to refill biomass burners because if refuse to look for more water. Coal power is where you need to start traveling to make sufficient use of it. You can't expect to stay in a little corner of the world and have everything you need a hop, skip, and a jump away. I don't think any factory game does that.

Is part of your frustration that you don't know where to find resources? There is a site we can point you to that will show you where everything is on the map if that would help.

[Maehlice]

Originally posted by Gottkanzler Konrad:

It's not unlimited

I think he's referring to how the node will never run out. Once you've set up and balanced a power station, it's capable of running forever without ever needing to return to it.

Originally posted by Gottkanzler Konrad:

I don't want to explore because I need to watch over my factory and my gameplay loop is being upset I can't place things where I want and not having enough leaves to turn into bio-fuel.

You may have over-expanded. If you build within the limits of your automated power and/or upgrade to more automated power, you can explore endlessly.

For as long as you're using Biofuel, don't make it from leaves. The absolute best source of Biofuel are alien parts. A single stack of Alien Organs will produce an entire Storage Container full of Solid Biofuel. (Research in the MAM).

[marcusaddamsson]

Originally posted by Maehlice:

For as long as you're using Biofuel, don't make it from leaves. The absolute best source of Biofuel are alien parts. A single stack of Alien Organs will produce an entire Storage Container full of Solid Biofuel. (Research in the MAM).

I ain't sayin' you're wrong, but I kinda enjoy usin' the chainsaw to get leaves and wood... make into biofuel, and run a bunch of bio gens in the early game. In both of my starts, I ended up with more than I needed, especially if you throw in some alien guts... Plus, I always need lotsa flower petals for my paintgun.

[Tenebris]

Originally posted by marcusaddamsson:

I ain't sayin' you're wrong, but I kinda enjoy usin' the chainsaw to get leaves and wood... make into biofuel, and run a bunch of bio gens in the early game. In both of my starts, I ended up with more than I needed, especially if you throw in some alien guts... Plus, I always need lotsa flower petals for my paintgun.

I usually limit myself to 9 Bio generators (plus the two in the hub) and stay well within their means. Keeps things relatively small until I get to coal

[Yukikaze sama nanoda]

There is a map editor, you can try it, but for this game I think it is best to find an open water source and a relatively flat land, otherwise you need a foundation