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討論區規矩與守則
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I'll take a shot on this one. When you get any given alt receipe, it might not be "great" for where you are in the game currently. Admittedly some of them are just great (beams for screws anyone?), but that's just situational still (admittedly a situation we all find ourselves in).
If you're serious about alt recipes, you need a lot of them. Any given "Tree" in this "Forest" of alt receipes might be crappy, however the "Forest" is still quite useful.
My last playthru, my fuel generators benefited greatly from a bunch of linked alt recipes: Compact Coal, Turbo Fuel, Heavy Residue, Diluted Fuel. And that same factory used a bunch of alt recipes (Steamed Copper Plates, etc) to make other stuff as well.
All due respect, but if you think alt recipes aren't worth the effort, you just haven't played enough... Later factories that utilize alt recipes are often really efficient and use mats that're often locally sourced.
Personally I'd say that at least 3/4 of them are good with virtually all of them having some useful application.
That said: End results are what matter. If I'm "paying" OVER 2x as many screws to make something, along with adding another resource, to ONLY get 1 more of said item, I'm getting ripped off.
There's a recipe (which I can't recall offhand - bolted frames?) that takes nearly 4x as many screws (48 or 50) as the default recipe but yields only one more of said item. While the time may be faster, the results are not inherently better because of the imbalance between input and output. If it were a straight 4-in = 4-out in the time it normally takes to make 1, I might see it, but it's not, and I don't.
Steel screws I simply cannot see. Yes, you're getting 50+ at once, at a slower rate, and at a higher cost. My steel is dedicated to pipes and beams and encased variants. Meanwhile, I have a pair of iron nodes punching out cast screws constantly, and those feed everything I need consistently with no waiting.
I truly cannot see steamed copper sheet having value simply based on the need for a refinery and water to feed it.
The blatantly obvious like iron wire (split ingots to make plates and wire, then combine to make reinforced plates) are always the low-hanging fruit everyone brings up, as if that alone justifies the trash recipes. No one doubts the validity of that recipe, even if they don't use it, because it can be done in a single line from a single source node, with minimal extra power and floor space.
Yes, it's handy when copper isn't, and your cast screws are dedicated elsewhere. That does not justify wet concrete, rubber concrete, fine concrete, more expensive products, etc.
Alt recipes should reduce, not increase, consumption. Circuit boards made from quickwire and plastic is great. Caterium computers is great. Making copper wire from quickwire? WTF? Copper is far more plentiful, and if you already have both copper and iron wire, WTF would you even want to make copper wire out of caterium? If you have excess caterium, you're not making enough circuit boards or computers.
There's still not a single-stroke recipe for cable, and there should be because it's efficient, just like single-stroke screws. To be "technically accurate", you should have to combine rubber or plastic with copper wire in an assembler to make cable.
Does compacted coal burn slower than straight coal?
Are there recipes for turning crude oil directly into a usable end product without a by-product? IIRC you can spin it into gasoline by itself (can't recall). Now, dual-output refinement does have some benefit; rubber or plastic + purple crap which can be made into gasoline, etc., but I would like to see plastic/rubber-only output, without a liquid by-product, and liquids without solid by-products. "Real world" doesn't interest me. It doesn't break my "immersion" any more than infinite respawns, purple sunsets, dual moons that revolve in the opposite direction, and being able to build complex machinery with a handful of rods and plates.
Steel screws is one of the most popular recipes in the game. At 100% you get 210 per minute.. not 50+, and at a cost of just 5 steal beams. It is very cheap and easy to make massive amounts of screws with this. Bolted frames are also not as bad in value as you describe - especially in combination with steel screws.
Why ? There is plenty of iron and coal to go around.. Unless you are trying the crazy challenge of maximising every resource node in the game then there is no need to limit yourself in such a manner.
You are free to do so of course... As I said before your playstyle will dictate which recipes you favour. You mention Wet Concrete or steamed copper sheets as bad, yet they are 2 of my favourites and I use them often to increase the yield of the local nodes at the cost of only power and water.
No - Alt recipes should offer a wide variety of useful bonuses and effects - as they do.
Thanks for the answer, I think it was a pretty good explaination and I do appreciate that you gave thought to it when I couldn't understand what it meant. To give you an update, look at the (Edit : ) part of the main post. Opinions like yours changed my mind on the topic.
It really feels awful to spend hours building a new factory and then to unlock a recipe that immediately makes the entire thing obsolete.
I'd personally rather buy recipes I want from the awesome shop for tickets instead of relying on a timegated RNG mechanic with a lackluster exploration element.
So what you are saying is that youd like a mechanic that makes 30% of all hard drives found corrupted yielding no results, all crash sites to be guarded by more and strronger enemies and also more crash sites tucked away on hard to reach platforms, deep caves and covered in radiation?
Ok... whatever you say man,
That may have been what I got out of your post. :3
This is why I like the WeMod trainer: infinite HDDs and all I have to do is collect the nearest one (unlock requirements are placed in your inventory, whether it's a crystal oscillator or just a bag of screws - doesn't do anything if it needs electricity, though).
I feed infinite drives into the MAM until I have all the recipes available for the tiers I'm on. Unlock new tiers, scan more drives, get all the recipes, no matter what comes up. Get the bad ones out of the way and you're only left with good ones. Makes the game way more fun when you can optimize your production as soon as you unlock the MAM, without having to build 50 Turbo Motors to sacrifice to the Crash Site gods only to end up with a recipe for 5 more pocket slots, or save/scan/reload/scan until a good one comes up.
On my most recent save, it still took over 12 scans before I finally got cast screws, because I was getting recipes for tech I haven't unlocked yet, and all the different Wire and Pure and alloy iron/copper ingot recipes.
Partly because I'm only using 2 coal nodes in Grass Fields: the one on the floating island for steel, and the one on the high mesa for power and bombs. I use the 4 nodes in the oil field for generators.
But that's just it; it costs more than "just water and power", it costs materials to build water extractors and refineries.
How much copper sheet are you actually using? What products are made using copper sheet? Circuit boards I know, but what other items is it used for (and I'm not talking about pipes and machines you make manually - just the things that other machines spit out), and how can those needs not be met by a pair of Normal copper nodes?
AI limiters? I know there's at least one other item but can't remember it. Copper Rotors? Or does that take copper wire?
Or you could be wrong... ;) Kinda depends on what you're making and where and ultimately when. Personally, I enjoy getting the HDs, and I don't use those "ZZZZZzzzzz" mods. But each to his own. Even still, you could be wrong....
Ive had great fun with the exploration part of this game. I like figuring out where I can climb, how to do a quick hit and run in very dangerous areas and figure out where I need to come back to.
With that said I can fully understand how someone who is on their 5th factory on the same map are not to keen on doing all that climbing over and over with the joy of actually exploring the unknown stripped out of it.