Why doesn't this fluid overflow work?

[Maehlice]

From the following screenshot, why doesn't the red pipe act as a fluid overflow? Why does the cyan pipe to the left have water in it?

The screenshot was taken immediately after a network flush; each Fluid Buffer is nearly empty.
Water is flowing in from above via the blue pipe at the rear.

IRL, water would have to fill up the green fluid buffer before the white Cross could fill the "∩" in the red pipe above it.

However, in Satisfactory, the red pipe allows water to pass as soon as water flows through the white Cross. The water flows more slowly through the red/cyan pipes at about a 1:4 ratio vs right/green.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2321458622

I believe I solved this moments before posting here, but since I got this far, I'll go ahead and submit it for anybody who may have a better understanding or a different solution.

[Liobuster]

IRL there is pressure which would transport fluids further than gravity alone would

[Dr. PoopFart™]

what do you think should happen? when water is coming from the blue pipe why shouldnt there be water in the red pipe? sry when misunderstanding your question!?

[Maehlice]

Originally posted by Liobuster:

IRL there is pressure which would transport fluids further than gravity alone would

True, but (IRL) if the green pipe is of sufficient size that it can pass 100% of the blue pipe's flow, pressure won't build until it's full.

Originally posted by OnTheEdge™:

what do you think should happen? when water is coming from the blue pipe why shouldnt there be water in the red pipe? sry when misunderstanding your question!?

No worries.

The white cross should flow only into the green pipe until it and its downstream fluid buffer is full.

The red pipe shouldn't flow before green, because the bottom of its "∩" is higher than the green pipe/buffer.

It's only after the green pipe/buffer is full that the white cross should begin to fill itself and raise the water level high enough to overcome the red pipe's "∩" and begin flowing to the left/cyan.

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To put it another way, it should be like the overflow in a bathroom sink or bathtub. If the basin isn't full, it just sucks air, but as soon as the drain fills or is stopped, the water level raises up and overflows into it.

[Kaeru Gaman]

this is very interesting.
does it change behaviour i.e. produce another ratio when the blue pipe would run horizontal for maybe ten meters, or hundred for a second test?
does the height above the white cross influence the ratio?
I'm thinking about a water collector almost horizontally away from the white cross will nevertheless have a virtual water level 8m above (wheel size).
would this overflow only work as intended if it is on maximum height of the whole water system?
would it work at all, when the white cross is on maximum and the red bow above?

the behaviour you observe surely is connected with the "pressure"-simulation that is done in Satisfactory

[Mojo]

Here is a small break down of how fluid works in game from the wiki:

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/satisfactory_gamepedia_en/images/e/ef/Ficsit_Pipeline_Infograph_2.png/revision/latest?cb=20201126152636

As it says there "Don't try to apply real life hydrodynamics or fluid mechanics."

[Bobucles]

Make the red part higher and in two parts.

[Maehlice]

Originally posted by Kaeru Gaman:

this is very interesting.
does it change behaviour i.e. produce another ratio when the blue pipe would run horizontal for maybe ten meters, or hundred for a second test?
does the height above the white cross influence the ratio?

Blue pipe, no -- unless you have insufficient head lift, at which point funky stuff happens regardless of the system.

I think you can create other ratios and use this as a type of divider, but I haven't worked out the math. (I only just learned last night what I think makes it a divider at all.)

In fact, I surmise you could use over-maximum headlift as a divider also.

Originally posted by Kaeru Gaman:

would this overflow only work as intended if it is on maximum height of the whole water system?
would it work at all, when the white cross is on maximum and the red bow above?

You can beat head lift in Satisfactory, but funky stuff happens.

The red overflow needs to be above the white cross and the "primary" (green) output but still below maximum headlift.



I'll answer in more detail when I get home later. I don't want to spoil it for others (not even in a spoiler tag), plus I need to test the divider theory.

Originally posted by Mojo:

Here is a small break down of how fluid works in game from the wiki:

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/satisfactory_gamepedia_en/images/e/ef/Ficsit_Pipeline_Infograph_2.png/revision/latest?cb=20201126152636

As it says there "Don't try to apply real life hydrodynamics or fluid mechanics."

The link doesn't work, but I did read a lot on Reddit and the wiki previously.

I've made overflows before, but my current project broke because of a non-functional overflow very similar to my test setup in the screenshot.

You actually can apply IRL fluid dynamics, but I learned last night there is a very specific way of laying the pipes to make it work.

Originally posted by Bobucles:

Make the red part higher and in two parts.

How much higher?

[Mister Fabulous]

Originally posted by Maehlice:

Originally posted by Bobucles:

Make the red part higher and in two parts.

How much higher?

https://imgur.com/h6xchlS
You want to go 3 stackable poles higher than the top of the lower buffer. With the setup in the picture, when the lower buffer was almost full, water started to trickle over leading to the second buffer.

Basically the way their modeling seems to work is when fluid hits a junction, the game wants to split it evenly regardless of direction and gravity and physics are somewhat ignored in that way. With the small ∩ in the pipe, it doesn't go high enough to produce enough resistance where the fluid pushes back on the flow preventing it from overflowing, so the overflow pipe has to be high enough to prevent it from going over until it has nowhere else to go but that direction.

[Maehlice]

Originally posted by Mister:

With the setup in the picture, when the lower buffer was almost full, water started to trickle over leading to the second buffer.

In the screenshot example, water was flushed from the entire system. The overflow pipe & buffer began to fill at the same time as the completely empty green primary pipe & buffer. There was no almost full.

[Mister Fabulous]

My picture, not yours.

I feel like I should further clarify. If the Overflow pipe isn't high enough, then fluid will begin to flow over it immediately. If the Overflow pipe is not high enough, then when the first buffer starts to fill and gets close to the top, then fluid will begin to flow over before the first buffer has completely filled.

[[spacebar]]

if its coming from the buffer on the left, then youll need a pipeline pump on the blue pipe at the transition between blue and red, becuase water is affected by gravity. it wont just go up and over like that on its own, so youll need a pipeline pump. and same applies when getting fluids up a hight vertical wall. you need pipeline pumps every 20 meters. now with the new 3.5 update, you can hold cntrl and snap then to the correct distance. no more counting walls!

[Kraft51]

Originally posted by s p a c e b a r:

if its coming from the buffer on the left, then youll need a pipeline pump on the blue pipe at the transition between blue and red, becuase water is affected by gravity. it wont just go up and over like that on its own, so youll need a pipeline pump. and same applies when getting fluids up a hight vertical wall. you need pipeline pumps every 20 meters. now with the new 3.5 update, you can hold cntrl and snap then to the correct distance. no more counting walls!

first of all, that vertical rise isn't more than 8m tall so a pump isn't needed at all. secondly, OP is trying to achieve an overflow set up without using a Valve which actually might serve well in this situation.

[Mister Fabulous]

The flow in coming in from the vertical blue pipe as I understood it.

[Maehlice]

Okay. I'm back now after doing some testing. I'm going to keep this very short, because I'm tired.

I uploaded bunch of screenshots with captions, if you want to check them out.

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The end of the first section of the overflow should be above the cross and the entire primary output's downstream network. (This is the only reason the original overflow didn't function.)

If the end of the first section of the overflow isn't above the primary network -- such as if it comes out the bottom of a cross, at least one section in the overflow pipework must end above the primary output network.

When the first section doesn't end above the primary network, premature "trickling" occurs in the overflow(s). If an overflow with its first section above the primary network is connected in parallel with one without, the latter will experience reduced flow. (Something, something, back pressure.)

If the cross and primary pipework isn't completely above its downstream network, a check valve is needed to prevent backflow once it fills to capacity.

A check Valve is also needed on the overflow side if that overflow network is above the primary.

If the highest point of the overflow network is within the head space of the primary network, the overflow will function up to that point only -- after which the flow will be equally distributed.

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https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2322407639

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2322496645

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2322482440

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2322430540

[Kaeru Gaman]

Originally posted by Maehlice:

The end of the first section of the overflow should be above the cross and the entire primary output's downstream network. (This is the only reason the original overflow didn't function.)

thank you, I will learn this by heart. ;)