Why does my water supply keep choking?

[ulzgoroth]

So I realize I kind of did it on hard mode, running my very first pipeline up 60 or so meters of cliff. It's the only usable water I've found, and I didn't want to park my power plants on the beachfront.

But what baffles me is that it works. I've got five pumps spaced along the cliff face. I can get solid water flow and run the coal generators that are at the top. But then, without any outwardly apparent changes, the water slows to a trickle, and eventually the generators run dry.

I've even figured out how to fix that when it happens. If I go down and flush the very first pipe from the water extractor, that restores flow through the whole system. But having to go reboot the thing every few minutes is clearly not working as it should.

Possibly related, for some reason my water system seems to drop dead if the water extractor isn't overclocked. Two non-overclocked water extractors pumps no water, one overclocked one pumps all the water I can use...

Any hints on why this is happening?

[Lasagna]

Originally posted by byte me:

Penny just dropped. You mean 100% efficiency. My power plants never run out of coal and all 21 work round the clock. Overall, efficiency isn't at 100% My point is, they all work.

I'm still a bit of a noob, even after months of playing. lol

1 extractor powers 2.66 repeating coal plants, this is objective fact.

Your power plant works because you are not using all of the power of the coal plants so they're automatically running at reduced efficiency, if your power requirements go up enough then the coal plants will use more water, which will cause your system to choke.

[ulzgoroth]

Originally posted by Samtana:

For the OP : I didn't read every detail in this entire thread, but sounds like your water extractor might be exceeding its own headlift. There is no display of that number for the extractor, but I've read that an extractor will only pump water about halfway up the water wheel of the extractor. Sounds like the rest works fine when it actually receives water to pump. I had a similar thing happen for this reason so maybe that's what you got going on. /shrug

They're supposed to have a head lift capability of 10 meters, I think, but it's definitely possible that that's where the problem is. I can't really measure the vertical distance to the first pump...

I guess I'll try putting in a pump at water level, see if that clears things up.

[Samtana]

Originally posted by ulzgoroth:

Originally posted by Samtana:

For the OP : I didn't read every detail in this entire thread, but sounds like your water extractor might be exceeding its own headlift. There is no display of that number for the extractor, but I've read that an extractor will only pump water about halfway up the water wheel of the extractor. Sounds like the rest works fine when it actually receives water to pump. I had a similar thing happen for this reason so maybe that's what you got going on. /shrug

They're supposed to have a head lift capability of 10 meters, I think, but it's definitely possible that that's where the problem is. I can't really measure the vertical distance to the first pump...

I guess I'll try putting in a pump at water level, see if that clears things up.

That's what I would suggest to try. Something you can test in minutes. I honestly feel like 10m headlift for the extractor seems generous. I give 'em 8m ;-p

[Hugh Manatee]

@Edmund Greyfox & @Samtana.

Your help is appreciated because it's prompted me to finally do the coal power correctly. In all honesty, I set that up early on in the game. Since it worked, I was more than happy. At the time, I was relieved to finally get my power back up. 2 days I went without power. Two days! Like an animal, I was.

Today, I've been forced to reexamine my coal power. Now that I'm more experienced, things like efficiency is all starting to make sense. I still need to tap the coal in Blue Crater. That spot has got it all, water, a pure iron node nearby. There's even copper in the area. Plus, I already have a foothold with the oil, at the top of the lake.

Time to finally take advantage of the wet alternates. There's still plenty of coal to set up a 6 to 16 power plant at 100% efficiency. I love this game's ability to give you milestones when you least expect them. Quite often, they're not what the devs planned for you. Instead, this game provides it on its own, leaving each player to experience their own unique milestone.

Like, at this point, I look back with nostalgia at my early base in the Grasslands. It's all been demolished. Man, I was such a noob. Terrified of hogs and the other horrors. And, the spiders. They creep me out. Only one thing scares me more than spiders. Cats and Kittens. =P

Thanks again!

Peace!

[Samtana]

Cheers! We never really stop making mistakes, but we get better and finding/fixing them haha

[Maehlice]

On this note, exactly what role is a Fluid Buffer supposed to fill?

I understand the concept of input buffering, and I know the thing as its own head lift of 8m, but I haven't found either of these to be necessary. I'v run with and without one without any issues in either case.

So, what advantage are they supposed to give?

[Bobucles]

and I know the thing as its own head lift of 8m,

Fluid buffers don't really have a head lift. They have an internal fluid level, and that's exactly as high as the fluid will go. (If they had an external window, their "lift" would match the internal fluid level.) As long as the tank isn't at exactly 100% capacity, it is not pressurized so any head lift going into the tank gets deleted.

Fluid buffers are mostly useful for keeping train stations running smoothly. Use a storage to fill a train, and another storage to empty a train. They're also okay for early game waste management, just fill a tank up with junk and flush it every now and then. It's a decent enough quick fix to go deal with other things.

[Edmund Greyfox]

Originally posted by byte me:

@Edmund Greyfox & @Samtana.

Your help is appreciated because it's prompted me to finally do the coal power correctly. In all honesty, I set that up early on in the game. Since it worked, I was more than happy. At the time, I was relieved to finally get my power back up. 2 days I went without power. Two days! Like an animal, I was.

Today, I've been forced to reexamine my coal power. Now that I'm more experienced, things like efficiency is all starting to make sense. I still need to tap the coal in Blue Crater. That spot has got it all, water, a pure iron node nearby. There's even copper in the area. Plus, I already have a foothold with the oil, at the top of the lake.

Time to finally take advantage of the wet alternates. There's still plenty of coal to set up a 6 to 16 power plant at 100% efficiency. I love this game's ability to give you milestones when you least expect them. Quite often, they're not what the devs planned for you. Instead, this game provides it on its own, leaving each player to experience their own unique milestone.

Like, at this point, I look back with nostalgia at my early base in the Grasslands. It's all been demolished. Man, I was such a noob. Terrified of hogs and the other horrors. And, the spiders. They creep me out. Only one thing scares me more than spiders. Cats and Kittens. =P

Thanks again!

Peace!

I'm new myself, and know exactly what you mean about needing to re examine things as you gain more experience. As for the blue crater, if you mean the one that's NE of the grassy plains that place is coal power heaven. There are 4 coal veins, and with miner 2's on them all you can run 32 power plants. The only real issue is figuring out where to put them all (assuming you don't just want to platform over part of the lake).

[Hugh Manatee]

Originally posted by Bobucles:

and I know the thing as its own head lift of 8m,

Fluid buffers don't really have a head lift. They have an internal fluid level, and that's exactly as high as the fluid will go. (If they had an external window, their "lift" would match the internal fluid level.) As long as the tank isn't at exactly 100% capacity, it is not pressurized so any head lift going into the tank gets deleted.

Fluid buffers are mostly useful for keeping train stations running smoothly. Use a storage to fill a train, and another storage to empty a train. They're also okay for early game waste management, just fill a tank up with junk and flush it every now and then. It's a decent enough quick fix to go deal with other things.

Patting myself on the back here. Read the post about FB's and I thought they were best used on train stations. Didn't want to reply because I wasn't sure if I was correct.

Turns out, I was!

Does this mean I gave him the advice first? You know, technically speaking. lol

Anyway, another milestone. I must add a fluid train and station to my network. Long overdue!

Great thread! Keeps inspiring me towards new milestones!

[Hugh Manatee]

Originally posted by Edmund Greyfox:

I'm new myself, and know exactly what you mean about needing to re examine things as you gain more experience. As for the blue crater, if you mean the one that's NE of the grassy plains that place is coal power heaven. There are 4 coal veins, and with miner 2's on them all you can run 32 power plants. The only real issue is figuring out where to put them all (assuming you don't just want to platform over part of the lake).

Didn't see your post until I posted my last comment. lol

The learning curve with this game is huge, yet oddly uncomplicated. Naturally, the more you play, the more you know.

I suppose as players, we are also being assembled, manufactured and refined. And as the recipes get more complex, the player follows suit.

Never thought of it that way before, but its poignancy makes sense. We are an essential cog in the machine. No worker, no factory.

Yes. That's the same area in BC. I've known that spot ever since I started oil production further North. Figured I would save it for when I had more experience and use it properly, over noobing it up.

There's a brilliant path on the edge of the map. It starts on the bottom of the Southern Forest and Grasslands. If you follow it to the end, you come out in Blue Crater, not far from the coal and the geothermal. It's a perfect route that can take you directly back to Grasslands. Southern Forest is a pain if you're driving. This route bypasses all that.

Anyway, enjoy your game bro!

Peace.

[Maehlice]

Originally posted by Bobucles:

and I know the thing as its own head lift of 8m,

Fluid buffers don't really have a head lift. They have an internal fluid level, and that's exactly as high as the fluid will go. (If they had an external window, their "lift" would match the internal fluid level.) As long as the tank isn't at exactly 100% capacity, it is not pressurized so any head lift going into the tank gets deleted.

Fluid buffers are mostly useful for keeping train stations running smoothly. Use a storage to fill a train, and another storage to empty a train. They're also okay for early game waste management, just fill a tank up with junk and flush it every now and then. It's a decent enough quick fix to go deal with other things.

Seems I misunderstood the wiki on these things about head lift. After reading your comment and testing, I get it now. Thanks.

I haven't gotten around to setting up a train network. That makes total sense. In that respect, I should think of it more as a container. Thanks for that also.

[ulzgoroth]

Originally posted by Samtana:

Originally posted by ulzgoroth:

They're supposed to have a head lift capability of 10 meters, I think, but it's definitely possible that that's where the problem is. I can't really measure the vertical distance to the first pump...

I guess I'll try putting in a pump at water level, see if that clears things up.

That's what I would suggest to try. Something you can test in minutes. I honestly feel like 10m headlift for the extractor seems generous. I give 'em 8m ;-p

Looks like that did it. Based on the numbers from my new pump, that first leg is nearly 19 meters vertical!

Why it was working at all before I put in that pump is a bit of a mystery...

[🦊Λℚ𝓤ΛƑΛᗯҜᔕ🦊]

Personally when playing the game I put a large fluid buffer at the top of the vertical section of any pipe I'm trying to pump upwards through. I add a pump about 10-15 meters along the pipe, power it and then go up to watch the fluid buffer, flushing it if it gets near 80% full. I keep watching the fluid buffer until it shows a sustained fill rate (At the end of the pipe) of 300 m3/min (maximum for the pipes). If it's sloshing back and forth like 100~200 m3/min and not steady then I'll go add another pump to the line, flush the buffer, watch it for a bit, etc and repeat. Once the fluid buffer at the top shows a sustained fill rate of 300 m3/min then you know you have enough pumps. Then just dismantle the fluid buffer and proceed to connect the end of the pipe to the rest of your pipe network.

[Samtana]

Originally posted by ulzgoroth:

Originally posted by Samtana:

That's what I would suggest to try. Something you can test in minutes. I honestly feel like 10m headlift for the extractor seems generous. I give 'em 8m ;-p

Looks like that did it. Based on the numbers from my new pump, that first leg is nearly 19 meters vertical!

Why it was working at all before I put in that pump is a bit of a mystery...

Awesome! Mystery problems can be frustrating, no doubt lol. The extractors seem to possibly have a surge when they start pumping, but it doesn't maintain that level. That's speculation, though. Glad it worked because I didn't really have any other suggestion. Sounded like you had already covered the other possibilities.

[Hugh Manatee]

Just watched an excellent clip on YouTube. He shows another use for a fluid buffer that saves on pumps by taking advantage of the game's realistic mechanics regarding water. Figured a visual would help anyone understand their concept better. It helped me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2bHWgqYD8I