Using Storage Containers Instead of Belts

[Speerdo]

My friend Craig had an interesting theory the other day. Others may have discovered this, but I had not so I thought I'd share.

Craig's principle is that parts move through a storage container instantly. We ran some tests and confirmed this, although it results in some interesting and weird behaviors that were explainable, but also unexpected.

We set up two lines of the same length (118 meters). Line A had a 10m start container and a 10m ending container, then 98 meters of mk 1 belt connecting them. Line B had 10 total containers, so the start/finish containers and then 8 more in between. Connecting these containers were 9 separate 2m sections of mk 1 belt. We then dropped 250 parts into each of the two starting containers at precisely the same time and observed.

Line A acted as expected. Because the part only had to slow down from light speed to move on the 98m of connecting mk 1 belt, parts took 98 seconds to get from the start container to the ending container.

Line B was different. That first part had no delay moving through each of the 8 containers between start and finish containers. It only had to slow down for the 2 meters of belt after each container, for a total transit time of 18 seconds.

Where it gets interesting is when you look at subsequent parts. That first part only had to slow down from lightspeed to hit those mk 1 belts. The second part, however, when it went to hit that first belt had to wait 1 extra second for the first part to clear. The 3rd part had to wait 2 extra seconds..so on so forth and so what. Basically, once the line is saturated with parts, it's only as fast as it's slowest section.

The end result is that line B got a total of 33 parts into it's ending container before line A delivered it's first part. But after that? Both lines moved at exactly the same speed. It's weird, but I implore you to give it a try yourself. I'm not even 100% sure what is happening, but the results speak for themselves.

So you might think that there's no value in doing this other than that initial bonus in parts, but I think the value is more in cost and less in speed. Using mk 1 belts doesn't yield major cost savings in line B over line A, but what about when you upgrade to mk 2, 3, etc? Imagine having 1k meters of mk 1 belt that you're upgrading to mk 5. Wherever you can add a container in that line will cost you 100 iron plates and 100 iron rods whereas just using mk 5 belts would cost you 10 alclad aluminum sheets, which is just a ton more expensive when you consider all the resources and time and space that goes into making the parts for that recipe.

There's also an advantage in those containers becoming a massive buffer. In our 118 meter test run with 8 extra containers between the start/finish containers, that's 192 extra inventory slots. This buffer allows us to take parts from anywhere on the line without slowing production down line, assuming those 192 inventory slots actually contain something.

There are surely other pros and cons to this approach. Like, what happens if you stack them to go vertical? What kind of savings exist then? Running containers over rough terrain will also surely require more belt to connect the uneven and oddly spaced containers..but it's still going to be cheaper than using nothing but more expensive belts, right?

Anyhoo...this is long. To summarize. Craig is a genius.

[Mojo]

Storage containers cost more to build, and a long line of them would be more unsightly than a conveyor line, but if it works go for it! :)

[Liobuster]

its faster but not more efficient also with a lot of them i believe the load on the CPU was greater but im not too sure about that

theres some extensive youtube stuff about all that though

[Speerdo]

For mk 1 belts, yes, it's more expensive to do containers. But if you wanna do mk 2, the SC option would be cheaper.

For a 10 meter run, broken down into like parts:
SC = 10 IP, 10 IR
mk 1 = 10 IP
mk 2 = 60 IP, 30 IR + time+lines+power to make the RIP

Past mk 2 belts the materials just become more expensive and time consuming so it only becomes more advantageous to use SCs in your line.

You're right though...big honker SCs would be ugly and can't make tight turns and all that. Pros and cons...but for long runs cross country, at least in the early/mid stages of the game, it makes sense.

[Maehlice]

Throughput is always bottlenecked by the slowest section -- regardless of saturation.

Even in this example, the only difference between the lines is the "lag time" from when parts begin arriving. Saturated or not, the throughput is the same.

The con of this setup is that it's much more difficult to set up and upgrade. Belt resources come easy. For literally no increase in throughput, it doesn't seem practical.

[Kraft51]

Originally posted by Maehlice:

Throughput is always bottlenecked by the slowest section -- regardless of saturation.

this is the only information they need here. using containers for "instant" item transport isn't a thing. you will ALWAYS be restricted by your slowest belts, even using mk5 belts its not any faster.

[ColdFish]

Originally posted by Maehlice:

Throughput is always bottlenecked by the slowest section -- regardless of saturation.

Even in this example, the only difference between the lines is the "lag time" from when parts begin arriving. Saturated or not, the throughput is the same.

The con of this setup is that it's much more difficult to set up and upgrade. Belt resources come easy. For literally no increase in throughput, it doesn't seem practical.

Exactly this.
Belt resources are an absolute non-issue.
In the later stages the production/consumption ratios aren't as neat anymore either, so you will have excess material from which to build your belts with anyway.
So why would you want to switch to a system that is far more clunky to set up (and will likely cost you performance to boot)?

[Feast]

It would be nice to see a troughput of parts (IN/OUT/BALANCE) like you have in a fluidcontainer. This is espacially nice if you stack containers to see what is happening

[Kraft51]

Originally posted by Feast:

It would be nice to see a troughput of parts (IN/OUT/BALANCE) like you have in a fluidcontainer. This is espacially nice if you stack containers to see what is happening

just look at either the input or output .. you will always see the product on the belts, even lifts.

[Speerdo]

I fully expect this to lose it's luster as the game progresses and these "rare" resources become more and more common. However, where I'm at now, with only about 20 hours into the game, spending 10 IP and 10 IR to move an item 10 meters at any speed is much more efficient than spending 60 IP and 30 IR (and time and other assembly lines to create the RIP).

[Maehlice]

Originally posted by Kraft51:

just look at either the input or output .. you will always see the product on the belts, even lifts.

I think he means an exact number, like on a section of pipe that shows the exact flow.

It would really only be useful at the end of a saturated manifold to check exactly how much unused product is overflowing.

[Kraft51]

Originally posted by Maehlice:

Originally posted by Kraft51:

just look at either the input or output .. you will always see the product on the belts, even lifts.

I think he means an exact number, like on a section of pipe that shows the exact flow.

It would really only be useful at the end of a saturated manifold to check exactly how much unused product is overflowing.

this is why i was asking a Production Readout, could easily be added to the HUB. just something to monitor overall production so you can pinpoint bottlenecks or power shortages easier, after a while rifling through some of your factories can be an adventure all its own lol.

[Feast]

Originally posted by Kraft51:

Originally posted by Maehlice:

I think he means an exact number, like on a section of pipe that shows the exact flow.

It would really only be useful at the end of a saturated manifold to check exactly how much unused product is overflowing.

this is why i was asking a Production Readout, could easily be added to the HUB. just something to monitor overall production so you can pinpoint bottlenecks or power shortages easier, after a while rifling through some of your factories can be an adventure all its own lol.

I really meant not the belt throughput, but a inbetween container(s)

[Maehlice]

Originally posted by Cody:

Do the ore nodes run out? Does anyone know? IRL, mines "play out" or exhaust. I was wondering if they run out here. Some of mine seem slower now.

All nodes have limited output rates based on their purity level, but they run infinitely deep.

They'll never play out or exhaust, nor should they slow without your direct intervention (changing the Mk level of the miner or altering the clock speed). Miners will cycle on/off depending on the usage of the ore downstream, but while running, they run faithfully at whatever speed you've set.

[Evilsod]

Originally posted by Speerdo:

I fully expect this to lose it's luster as the game progresses and these "rare" resources become more and more common. However, where I'm at now, with only about 20 hours into the game, spending 10 IP and 10 IR to move an item 10 meters at any speed is much more efficient than spending 60 IP and 30 IR (and time and other assembly lines to create the RIP).

As Maehlice already said, it already serves no real purpose.

It is a massively overcomplicated way of running a belt line that would be absolutely horrible to upgrade. No to mention actually running all those individual belt segments and placing down the containers would take far longer to set up than just running a plain belt.

It doesn't supply material any faster, it just decreases the travel time. Travel time means nothing when you have a constant stream of materials.

And its not like the cost of the belts themselves is high. If you're having trouble affording Mk 1/2 belts, you aren't going to be throwing tons of resources into containers. If you're having trouble affording Mk 3/5 belts, you've done something wrong with your steel/aluminium setup.

Also, I have no idea what those abbreviations are meant to be...

[Shahadem]

Other than upgrading all your belts to MK 5 and making Turbo Motors, what can we even do with the aluminum?

I put all that time into making an aluminum factory and now the only resource I use is the silica byproduct...