Why bother with trucks or trains?

[Battlestar]

I keep starting to build stations, but it's so much easier to run a conveyer. The trucks often get stuck and require fuel, so what is the benefit?

[Celsus]

Wait a second... Ficsit carts are programmable like trucks? Wow. That might actually come in handy. They're practically free. I thought they were a functional joke vehicle like the thing with square wheels.

[grapplehoeker]

Originally posted by Celsus Trueword:

Wait a second... Ficsit carts are programmable like trucks? Wow. That might actually come in handy. They're practically free. I thought they were a functional joke vehicle like the thing with square wheels.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2294680340

[YamatoPower9000]

If belts used electricity for longer range than transportation would be cheapier and better solution.

[Evilsod]

Originally posted by grapplehoeker:

Originally posted by Evilsod:

Teching up to unlock trains is not a big obstacle, which is all this is about.
Why bother investing in trucks in a big way when trains are right around the corner?

If that were the only case, I would have replaced my two trucks (not a big investment at all) with a rail line.
However, this is about quantity over distance and since this 3km stretch to deliver the 245 copper and 65 iron ore the computer fab needs is the only long distance route, the two trucks can handle those small quantities with ease and trains would be overkill for such small amounts.
Now, if I were to need aluminum or nuclear power, then I'd use trains for sure, but in this playthrough, I didn't need to and now I'll just play for fun until the updates roll in.

I read that expecting to find a point in there somewhere... I should've known better, since you don't appear to have had one this entire thread.
In fact, the only thing you have done is repeatedly bring up your 5 computers/min build, as though Satisfactory revolves around it.

Game does a very bad job of encouraging the use of tractors because of your extremely limited options for fuel that compete with other requirements.
When you do get the truck and alternatives for fuel, you've already developed a reliance on belts and workarounds, knowing that trains are right around the corner and eliminate all the potential pitfalls of road based vehicles.
So to the OP, tractors/trucks do work quite well but the push to use them isn't quite there. Trains on the other hand are very good, especially for long distances.

[FreeMan | Black Tiger]

Originally posted by Evilsod:

Originally posted by grapplehoeker:

If that were the only case, I would have replaced my two trucks (not a big investment at all) with a rail line.
However, this is about quantity over distance and since this 3km stretch to deliver the 245 copper and 65 iron ore the computer fab needs is the only long distance route, the two trucks can handle those small quantities with ease and trains would be overkill for such small amounts.
Now, if I were to need aluminum or nuclear power, then I'd use trains for sure, but in this playthrough, I didn't need to and now I'll just play for fun until the updates roll in.

I read that expecting to find a point in there somewhere... I should've known better, since you don't appear to have had one this entire thread.
In fact, the only thing you have done is repeatedly bring up your 5 computers/min build, as though Satisfactory revolves around it.

Game does a very bad job of encouraging the use of tractors because of your extremely limited options for fuel that compete with other requirements.
When you do get the truck and alternatives for fuel, you've already developed a reliance on belts and workarounds, knowing that trains are right around the corner and eliminate all the potential pitfalls of road based vehicles.
So to the OP, tractors/trucks do work quite well but the push to use them isn't quite there. Trains on the other hand are very good, especially for long distances.

I disagree on the fuel options being limited, as you can use any basic fuel source, alien carapace, aliens organs, leaves, wood, biomass, coal, fuel, etc.

So early game when you first unlock them, you have quite a few options.

The only pain I find with trucks/tractors early is the fueling how you basically need to make two truck stations next to each other for each delivery/pickup spot so that your vehicles don't run out of fuel, and have one dedicated refuel vehicle bringing whatever fuel source to the secondary truck station to feed into the fuel tank of the primary truck station.

I haven't developed any "reliance" on belts before I unlocked trucks, I don't run huge ass belts across the whole world, I run them from miners to factories and inside/around factories, but I don't do across the map belts.

Trains are right around the corner for me now on my first play through, I can unlock them next should I decide to.

I'm still going to use trucks, because there are still spots where it's better, because it doesn't require a huge freaking track with a massive turn radius, it can drive around places where the train doesn't fit.

I plan on using trucks for short range ground based deliveries of raw materials mainly, and trains for transporting bulk materials to processing facilities such as taking bulk iron ingots from the iron ingot smelting facility to the plates and rods factory, then a different train taking those to other factories for whatever else needs them, etc.

[Evilsod]

Originally posted by FreeMan | Black Tiger:

I disagree on the fuel options being limited, as you can use any basic fuel source, alien carapace, aliens organs, leaves, wood, biomass, coal, fuel, etc.

So early game when you first unlock them, you have quite a few options.

The only pain I find with trucks/tractors early is the fueling how you basically need to make two truck stations next to each other for each delivery/pickup spot so that your vehicles don't run out of fuel, and have one dedicated refuel vehicle bringing whatever fuel source to the secondary truck station to feed into the fuel tank of the primary truck station.

I haven't developed any "reliance" on belts before I unlocked trucks, I don't run huge ass belts across the whole world, I run them from miners to factories and inside/around factories, but I don't do across the map belts.

Trains are right around the corner for me now on my first play through, I can unlock them next should I decide to.

I'm still going to use trucks, because there are still spots where it's better, because it doesn't require a huge freaking track with a massive turn radius, it can drive around places where the train doesn't fit.

I plan on using trucks for short range ground based deliveries of raw materials mainly, and trains for transporting bulk materials to processing facilities such as taking bulk iron ingots from the iron ingot smelting facility to the plates and rods factory, then a different train taking those to other factories for whatever else needs them, etc.

Those fuel sources are all perfectly viable options for your own vehicle, not for an automated one (I specifically said pre-fuel). I always have a stack or two of Solid Biomass on me for the Chainsaw and for any vehicle I use to get around (Explorer).

I'm not suggesting that people will start running belts halfway across the map because they don't want to use tractors pre-oil. I meant that you'll probably keep things local, moving things maybe 500m at most by belt. If you're really desperate for a resource, you might stretch to 1km.
The one that comes to mind there is coal in early Grass Fields. You certainly aren't going to be sacrificing coal to transport your coal closer.

Tractors just aren't appealing before you get Fuel/Petroleum Coke. And as I said, you then have that problem of delivering the fuel everywhere you want it. It's a big investment.
On my most recent game on Dune Desert, I used a truck, fuelled by Pet. Coke, to deliver the materials from my oil refinery to my base. It works perfectly well for that function. It was then replaced by a Train the moment I unlocked it.

They have their uses. And in the late-game you are probably in a much better position to utilise them, if you're prepared to look past the clunky route planner. I just don't think tractors/trucks are necessarily worth the investment when you first get access to them. That is the key problem as I see it.

[Kaeru Gaman]

well, I ran a truck (tractor) line on solid biofuel, I had a container refilling the truck station and the tractor needed around 20-30 for each run as I remember.
the thing is, that station was at my HUB, so it was at the place I always came back to and always put leafs and wood I had with me into the 'converter', so I had permanent backup of solid biofuel and every now and then I checked the container and filled it up again.
yes, it's a bit of handwork, it's base babysitting... *shrug* but it worked.

[Kraft51]

Originally posted by Kaeru Gaman:

well, I ran a truck (tractor) line on solid biofuel, I had a container refilling the truck station and the tractor needed around 20-30 for each run as I remember.
the thing is, that station was at my HUB, so it was at the place I always came back to and always put leafs and wood I had with me into the 'converter', so I had permanent backup of solid biofuel and every now and then I checked the container and filled it up again.
yes, it's a bit of handwork, it's base babysitting... *shrug* but it worked.

this is how i supply my explorer the entire time before getting any fuel production on the go or unlocked for that matter lol. 3 contructors, 2 making biomass and 1 making Solid Biofuel ... i fill up the container once with all wood and just forget about it. although i am supplying my Burners with that also but still it takes quite a while to chew through all of it.

[grapplehoeker]

Originally posted by Evilsod:

I read that expecting to find a point in there somewhere... I should've known better, since you don't appear to have had one this entire thread.
In fact, the only thing you have done is repeatedly bring up your 5 computers/min build, as though Satisfactory revolves around it.

Game does a very bad job of encouraging the use of tractors because of your extremely limited options for fuel that compete with other requirements.
When you do get the truck and alternatives for fuel, you've already developed a reliance on belts and workarounds, knowing that trains are right around the corner and eliminate all the potential pitfalls of road based vehicles.
So to the OP, tractors/trucks do work quite well but the push to use them isn't quite there. Trains on the other hand are very good, especially for long distances.

Gawd lol... you're right, I wasn't making any point.
I was questioning some of the odd statements you made and all you've done is obfuscate.
1. You keep going on about tractors. Why? I don't use them, you don't use them and there's no mention of them in the OP o.O
2. You stated that fuelling trucks with coal was a waste of coal and so I asked you why coal when there are other fuel types, including the one that I use, namely packaged fuel.
You said that a plastic/packaged oil fab would get blocked and waste plastic.
I showed you a layout that doesn't get blocked or waste plastic. It is also a very useful source of fuel for trucks and other vehicles or jetpack.
The reason I repeatedly made reference to the computer fab was to show you that no plastic was wasted and there was still ample amount to produce packaged fuel. The only reason was because despite that, you kept repeating these claims of wastage.
3. You refer to potential pitfalls of road based vehicles. What would they be?
Trucks do not get stuck if set up correctly and fuelling them isn't a problem. The packaged fuel they receive at one end of the line is sufficient to power them for the whole journey and back again.

Look, I'm all for trains as a logistical solution to transport large quantities over significant distances. However, trucks can serve a purpose if dealing with smaller quantities over shorter distances.
And of course, one may use conveyors too.
So, if I had to make a point, it would be that there are several viable logistical options available, including trucks.
Anyone is free to choose whichever method or combination that suits them. So whether you choose one over another or use a combination of them makes no difference... do whatever you like in your game ;)

[Evilsod]

Grapple, try actually reading my previous posts. Everything you've just said is already in there.

This game is more than your sandbox build in isolation.

[Maehlice]

Originally posted by grapplehoeker:

1. You keep going on about tractors. Why? I don't use them, you don't use them and there's no mention of them in the OP o.O

Tractors weren't explicitly referenced in the OP, but they affect why Trucks aren't bothered with.

Because the game doesn't sufficiently promote or necessitate the use of Tractors, Trucks are effectively the first wheeled vehicle the player needs to consider.

There would likely be no question of "why bother with Trucks" if Tractors were already in use. They would be an obvious upgrade to the existing system of Truck Stations.

[grapplehoeker]

@Maehlice Ah thanks for that.
That reminds me... there's something you stated that I've been meaning to ask you about as well ;)
Back in post #9...

Originally posted by Maehlice:

Trucks require almost four times the energy per item than trains. I get that trucks should be less efficient, but that disparity is ridiculous.

How on earth do you work that out?
The power consumption of a truck is 75MW and is limited to each truck, meaning that the power is fuelled and not drawn from the grid.
The power consumption of a train is variable and can start from 25MW at rest, rising to 110MW at full load and is cumulative depending on the number of trains. That power drain is drawn from the grid.
A working train can therefore consume 50% more power than a truck. It's only when the train is at rest that the power consumption is less than a truck... however, that 25MW drain is continuous!

In conclusion, if the amount of power is not a factor, then it is the source of power that truly differentiates the truck from the train.
And in that respect, the train clearly wins over longer distances because it receives power continuously.
Meanwhile, the truck's working distance is limited by the fuel it carries, but is more efficient in terms of power consumption.
So... for shorter (fuellable) distances, trucks are viable and for longer distances than trucks can work with, trains are the only vehicular option.

[Bobucles]

Trucks consume 20MW when parked at a truck stop and always burn fuel on the move. They also can't stack up inventory space like a train. The maximum train demand is rarely seen and only matters when going uphill. They can cruise at minimal cost no problem.

[lPaladinl]

Trucks are good for exploring, they offer higher movement speed and some extra cargo. The downside is of course that they use fuel (but you can gather fuels in the field, especially if you know where to find coal.)

I haven't used Trains though, my question would be if they offer higher capacity and speed over conveyors, meaning they would be faster or provide greater volume transfer.

[Kraft51]

Originally posted by lPaladinl:

Trucks are good for exploring, they offer higher movement speed and some extra cargo. The downside is of course that they use fuel (but you can gather fuels in the field, especially if you know where to find coal.)

I haven't used Trains though, my question would be if they offer higher capacity and speed over conveyors, meaning they would be faster or provide greater volume transfer.

essentially they are most effective when used for long range logistics, if you are tapping a resource half way across the map its far more effective, and efficient, to use a train versus using a few tractors/trucks