Tower defense update?

[ryu19091]

At this point in the game development, I'm not sure what I'm building toward or why I should continue playing. The PvE is, at best, a dull 3 dimensional game. The enemies aren't threatening my structures and the "toughest" enemies are a nuisance, but that is all. I would even argue that radioactive material is the "toughest boss" in the game at this time.

I'm not sure why I'm building all of these devices or products, besides thinking, "Oh, look at the pretty conveyor belts. They move so fast!" Some of the best features are coming from the mod community. Wind power, solar power, hydro power, elevators, massive storage units and greenhouses are some additions that should have been obvious to include from the developers, but they weren't. The mod community even came out with rockets for crying out loud.

You (developers) have a game that has great potential. I would like the PvE to become more interesting. Whether that is new enemies, new enemy tactics, or even them attacking my structures.

As the subject suggests, I would like tower defense to be included in the game, whether it is a separate game mode or included in the overall gameplay. Either is fine with me. You could make worms spring up from the ground and destroy my structures; you could force people to build their facilities upward or make them build using a fortified platforms (could be a middle/late game item) to prevent said worm from infiltrating the facility. You could make the night time a creature invade time that forces you to build defense towers along supply lines and around your base.

Before I get the inevitable condemning comment about what I've said above let me say, "I know this is early access. That is why I'm suggesting some of these things in the first place." I like the game, but I just think there could be more done in an open world/sandbox game especially with the groundwork they have placed. But in its current state, I feel like I've bought/played an expensive clone of Alchemy.

[udo]

my thoughts exactly , just building for the sake of building more ..... no real goals

[Evilsod]

Oh look, another idiot who bought a game then immediately started complaining it isn't another game...

Edit: Inb4 the 'but I said optional!' response, frequently used by people who don't seem to understand the concept of development taking time.

[Dark Phoenix]

So,

No.

But lets expand on why not shall we.

Games are a series of gameloops. The best games focus their efforts to do one thing really well, and that one thing is backed up by several smaller things that add to that one big thing.

So right now, we have a factory builder at its core. The smaller aspects would be combat, the ability to eat to regain health, exploration to find hard drives and new resources and the research tree to tie it all together with the core mechanic.

Now, you want to slot a tower defence system in there (optional they yell), but all those small things need to be considered as you fit in your new module. Not only that, but major work needs to be done on the core mechanic to add in the features you need.

So, you would need a health mechanic added to every building. You would need mobs ability to attack buildings and the work that goes into that. You would also need to add at minimum, 2 building states for damaged and destroyed, so that would be 2 new models per prefab, all the code to tie that into the system, as well as lighting, vfx and audio to support that.

Not to mention the pathfinding and attack systems to allow the mobs to attack buildings.

Then there are the turrets, and the targetting systems that go into them. That then needs to be put into the research tree.

Then the whole lot needs to be re-balenced, as if you jsut push that into a survival-lite without rebalence, then its not gonna work.

But now the balence has knocked non turret survival trampoline simulator out of whack, so either you are now supporting multiple gamemodes, or you support one and leave the other to burn.

Big issue with suggestions....99% of them are not thought out for dev time and effort, and if its even worth it at the end of the day. Look at what i just wrote, i dont even go into netcode and theres probably a lot more considerations. Is that worth adding turrets?

[Fulgrim]

Whats the game loop for Satisfactory?

[Evilsod]

Originally posted by Dark Phoenix:

Is that worth adding turrets?

"Yes, because the game is EA and is meant to evolve to player suggestions.
Also because I can't be wrong."

[Rexton]

il qeus this is a troll tread ???

or are u for real ?

[Dark Phoenix]

Originally posted by Orolyn:

Whats the game loop for Satisfactory?

Building factories...i said that in my wall of text...the core mechanic is building factories.

[Fulgrim]

Its not enough. There needs to be a resource sink which is directly related to the running of your factory. Remember games like Anno:

Population => Taxes => Factory upkeep => Resources for population => More population => More Taxes => More factories.

In Satisfactory, we just have: Factories => More factories.

The key difference is that city builders have a far greater scope for creativity. You have population needs to consider, city beautification, etc.

Satisfactory doesn't need to be turned into a city builder, but it needs something that drives the NEED for resources, and a constant pressure that ensures you are ALWAYS one step behind.

Oxygen Not Included does this very well by ensuring that nothing you build lasts forever (at least not until much much later), this drives a player to constantly find solutions merely to keep things running, let alone expand.

[Dark Phoenix]

Originally posted by Orolyn:

Its not enough. There needs to be a resource sink which is directly related to the running of your factory. Remember games like Anno:

Population => Taxes => Factory upkeep => Resources for population => More population => More Taxes => More factories.

In Satisfactory, we just have: Factories => More factories.

The key difference is that city builders have a far greater scope for creativity. You have population needs to consider, city beautification, etc.

Satisfactory doesn't need to be turned into a city builder, but it needs something that drives the NEED for resources, and a constant pressure that ensures you are ALWAYS one step behind.

Oxygen Not Included does this very well by ensuring that nothing you build lasts forever (at least not until much much later), this drives a player to constantly find solutions merely to keep things running, let alone expand.

There is a resource sink though. It's called the sink, and you invest materials into it to get coupons for buying things with.

[Fulgrim]

Thats a fake resource sink. Its just a shop, once you have everything in the shop, theres no carrying on.

[Scarsick]

Maybe pure sandbox games are not for you.

Originally posted by ryu19091:

Before I get the inevitable condemning comment about what I've said above let me say, "I know this is early access.

This is not about being early access, this is about you're not understanding what Satisfactory is. You're making a suggestion that is completely out of the scope of this game.

[Mod Sloth]

Originally posted by Orolyn:

Its not enough. There needs to be a resource sink which is directly related to the running of your factory. Remember games like Anno:

Population => Taxes => Factory upkeep => Resources for population => More population => More Taxes => More factories.

In Satisfactory, we just have: Factories => More factories.

The key difference is that city builders have a far greater scope for creativity. You have population needs to consider, city beautification, etc.

Satisfactory doesn't need to be turned into a city builder, but it needs something that drives the NEED for resources, and a constant pressure that ensures you are ALWAYS one step behind.

Oxygen Not Included does this very well by ensuring that nothing you build lasts forever (at least not until much much later), this drives a player to constantly find solutions merely to keep things running, let alone expand.

The problem with this argument is that Satisfactory is EA. Until we get to 1.0, there are going to be elements missing. The devs have hinted at some sort of point to building factories beyond just building for its own sake.

[Fulgrim]

Tell what would make this game work. The space elevator requires certain resources to gain later tech. But instead of them being one timers, maybe they should be constant supply requirements. I.e. You need to feed X number of Y into the elevator every day, for every. And once the target is met, another target for a different item is created.

Rewards for meeting (and maintaining) these targets will need thinking out as well. Perhaps the rewards could be a type of resource you can't produce yourself.

[Fulgrim]

Originally posted by kmarkopl:

Originally posted by Orolyn:

Thats a fake resource sink. Its just a shop, once you have everything in the shop, theres no carrying on.

You realize this game still is EA, and have at least 2 years of development ?

And in case you still insist for tower defense, here is clear answer and explanation from Devs.

Time 2m : 58s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1E6EWrAsII&t=177s

But you realise that unless we constantly talk about these things, the devs will assume its no longer necessary to implement.

[Fulgrim]

Originally posted by kmarkopl:

Originally posted by Orolyn:

But you realise that unless we constantly talk about these things, the devs will assume its no longer necessary to implement.

They already made up they mind.
Also Dark Phoenix did partially explained, how much work would be needed, and consider this the CSS is team of just 30 people.
https://steamcommunity.com/app/526870/discussions/0/2801754975105688072/?tscn=1596917183#c2801754975105818701

Personally I'm not interested in tower defence, I just see the OP request for it to be a symptom of the lack of longevity of a playthrough. Maybe I should have made a different thread. But the argument against the "EA cop out" is that if we remain silent and hope, then the problem will never be resolved.