Goals and challenges.

[Reianor]

The videos on the store page are transmitting excessively “sandboxish” vibes.
Especially the part where they said something along the lines of “optimizing is a whole other matter but that's up to you” sounded a lot like “but that's up to you if you want to bother”.
There's also an all around lack of mention of any goals and/or challenges.

So I thought I'd ask outright.

How is this game in that department?

Is there a good reason WHY we're building what we're building?
Or better yet is there a good reason to think about HOW we want it built?

Because if this is yet another “build your own sandcastles till you get bored” game then I'll just keep walking.

Too many building games out there focus a lot on various options and functions but seem to entirely forget about making an actual game with them.

Factorio is largely stuck in the same sinkhole.

There's pretty much NO reason to optimize your production in there and the closest thing to challenge it throws at you is keeping your towers fed.
Plus the only thing it has for a “driving force” is “Here, have a pickaxe. Now go build a spaceship.” and that's the full extent of the story.
It's an OK setting for a run or two, but then it becomes exceedingly difficult to keep yourself entertained in such a game.

Compare factorio to something like frostpunk and you'll see what I'm talking about. That one gives you clear goals and clear challenges, and both of theses are actually well made as opposed to factorio's afterthought-of-goal and afterthought-of-a-challenge.

So is this one actually a game or is it nothing more than a virtual toolset?

[DaTank]

Factorio and Frostpunk are completely different games. Frostpunk limits you in every way possible, it's survival with resource management while Factorio does no restricting. Factorio is more for creative/problem solving.

If you don't like problem solving games with freedom but instead have to literally be given a goal instead of setting your own, then you won't have fun in this game.

[jamesc70]

I liked Frostpunk, until I lost 8 hours of saves multiple times, then I never touched it again. Shame they can't even figure out why that happens to many people years after the game was released.

Factorio's challenge is keeping your factory fed and free of enemies, but your profile is hidden so I can't see that you only played 20 hours, because honestly that is the only way you could say something like that. Once you deplete resources near you, it can be a challenge to make efficient train routes to feed production and keep it safe from biters when the entire map outside your factory is red.

Satsifactory is pretty much a building sim, and the only challenge seems to be efficiency and design, but it is growing on me. I'd call it a virtual toolset with light gaming aspects.

[SternLX]

Keep in mind not all Building Tiers are in the game yet. Your Goal is to make parts for "The Project". Parts are sent up the Space Elevator for the "The Project". I put that in quotes because the Devs have yet to reveal what the Project is. It ties into the Story Line that has yet to be revealed as well. They have already said your progression through the goals is not Story Line driven, so there is a Sand Boxiness to the game, yet if you want to complete Story Line you have to meet the The Project goals and resource demands. Which in turn feeds off the being efficient catch phrase.
As far as I've seen over the last year of playing and watching Dev Vlogs they have specifically said that the Story runs parallel to your progression through the tiers but the Story is completely optional. They've also said there's no set time limit to complete the Story line... what ever that may be.

[Reianor]

Originally posted by jamesc70:

Factorio's challenge is keeping your factory fed and free of enemies, but your profile is hidden so I can't see that you only played 20 hours, because honestly that is the only way you could say something like that.

Made me look...
And steam said it's 200.
Around half of that was in MP coop.
Also around half of that was with mods (mostly production content expanding ones, but including some alien difficulty increasing ones).

Never found building resource bases to be challenging. Just expand early enough and it's in the bag.
But then again, I've never actually played with a particularly low material supply either. Default is about as low as I ever went on that front, and on that setting you have more than enough mats to get to tanks before “the outside” gets unclearable without 'em.

But either way that is not really a base design challenge is it?

Anyway, thank the two of you for your replies.
From the looks of it this is not the kind of game I'm looking for.

[Xilo The Odd]

Originally posted by Reianor:

Originally posted by jamesc70:

Factorio's challenge is keeping your factory fed and free of enemies, but your profile is hidden so I can't see that you only played 20 hours, because honestly that is the only way you could say something like that.

Made me look...
And steam said it's 200.
Around half of that was in MP coop.
Also around half of that was with mods (mostly production content expanding ones, but including some alien difficulty increasing ones).

Never found building resource bases to be challenging. Just expand early enough and it's in the bag.
But then again, I've never actually played with a particularly low material supply either. Default is about as low as I ever went on that front, and on that setting you have more than enough mats to get to tanks before “the outside” gets unclearable without 'em.

But either way that is not really a base design challenge is it?

Anyway, thank the two of you for your replies.
From the looks of it this is not the kind of game I'm looking for.

i mean, there is always Bob's mods for factorio if you want a goal or challenge change of pace.

nother thing to keep in mind, Satisfactory is still "Early Access". how i could not tell you other than EGS did them no favors in terms of development. from the very first build i played to now, game performance and features has definently expanded, but its not a good sign when you got WIP resources in the game still after so long... but the game looks far prettier than it did from way back AND runs a heck of a lot better.

if your worried about getting bored playing alone, then wait. no one is making you buy it now, there is 0 pressure, wait till they say "we're goin 1.0 buddy!" then aks the community if its changed much since 2020. if there is still a planet by then. (not GW speech more or less people insanity reference from the riots.)

[SoldadØ]

We are living in an era of freedom of choice and this ends up being reflected also in games. Satisfactory, at least in that moment, gives you the freedom of creation and imagination. Do you want to imagine that you are part of a large exploration corporation? Ok. Are you part of a kind of intergalactic engineers that sucks the resources of the discovered planets to the maximum? Nice. The idea here is freedom.

[jamesc70]

Originally posted by Voodoo:

We are living in an era of freedom of choice and this ends up being reflected also in games. Satisfactory, at least in that moment, gives you the freedom of creation and imagination. Do you want to imagine that you are part of a large exploration corporation? Ok. Are you part of a kind of intergalactic engineers that sucks the resources of the discovered planets to the maximum? Nice. The idea here is freedom.

I totally get that, but I still stand by my thought that it needs something else to be great. It is good; I spent a while today figuring out power vs supply and upgrades, like I can run two Iron Rod constructors off one smelter. Things I just winged before, I'm now looking at more closely.

I guess it is just one of those cases where I wish it was more. *shrug*

[Reianor]

Originally posted by Xilo The Odd:

nother thing to keep in mind, Satisfactory is still "Early Access"...

... wait till they say "we're goin 1.0 buddy!" then aks the community if its changed much since 2020...

Haven't seen a single game that deviated from it's concept over the course of EA.

I did see a few where devs said “oh we will have [this and that] we just haven't gotten around to it yet”. And almost without exception (at least not with an exception I can recall) all of those never ended up having a [this and that] worthy of a name. There's a good reason why 'afterthought' is not a word used in praise.

If they aren't already putting forward an effort towards developing goals and challenges now you can bet on them not having those done decently by release either. Even if they DO start making those half-way between now and then.