ENTITLEMENT...

[dragonsphotoworks]

Ok here goes.. I am not a fan of epic at all. But in response to all the hate i see...

They have a product that MAYBE 5% of people MIGHT buy. And probably lot less.. This is a very niche game that will NOT appeal to every one or a huge player base.

They have a game that is going to cost millions to design and program.

They have people that rely on the sales of this game to pay their bills and feed their families.

All the above and more is so hard for people to understand??

The fact is this regardless what YOU think or demand. their focus has to be and is on their own employees. They need to have a home to live in and food to eat regardless of what your believed entitlement demands. Pure and simple YES THEY ARE IN IT FOR MONEY!!

Do you go to work for free or do you expect your boss to pay you? If boss cant pay you are you going to just keep working for years for free? You all seem to expect game designers to do just that.

They had no gaerenty that game would make X amount of sales. And they had limited funds. They wanted to publish on steam due to amount of users which makes sense.

But would make $20 per sale here. And $26 per sale on EPIC.
But on steam would get ZERO bonus funds. And would get Millions from epic.

If epic gives them just $1,000,000 for development. To get same from steam would need to sell 50,000 games JUST to match what epic could give them. I dont know sales numbers offhand. But i dont see 50,000 people on steam saying would buy the game.....

Hell if 50k people actually bought game id be surprised due to how niche game is.
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So point is simply this... They took the best way to get game funded that would ENSURE all you entitled people would get best product possible. And ensure they didnt loose their homes incase game didnt sell.

Im sure they have used 10,000,000$ in funds to get game going to point it is. That would mean if they published ONLY on steam, they would of needed to sell 500,000 copies just to break even. Seems Factorio sold 1.8 Million copies on BOTH their website and steam over 8 YEARS. That is not a lot compared to some other games. IF Factorio sold every copy for 20$ profit..thats just $36 million total. BUT took 8 years to reach. So divide $36m by 8... $4.5mil per year. You want satisfactory to take 8+ years to finish? Since far as i see those factorio sales are for FINISHED product.

Im surprised how many people think having to wait ONE year on a game that is going through extra development entitles them to free copies? What if they hadnt sold it at all and waited an extra year... forcing you to wait. How many would be crying over it?

Do i like the fact had to buy on EPIC Not in the slightest as i dont like the launcher. Id prefer it on steam. Do i think devs greedy for trying to ensure game didnt crash and burn? of course not! Do they own you anything? Not in the slightest.
Did you pay for ANY of their development?
Did you pay their food bills?
Did you pay their rental fees?
Did you pay their morgages?
Did you pay anything????

Then since have zero funds or time invested in this, what gives you the entitlement to demand anything? They have put in 100% of the effort and you did ZERO. All you had to do was wait one year. Which if a AAA game is delayed o you expect them to give you free keys? Is sony puts a game out late on PS4 does that mean they owe you a xbox key for free?

Before you demand anything or call anyone greedy look in mirror. Your one demanding stuff for free with out having put in any effort to create product.

[Ganger]

Its not the game itself, what steam users are mad about is because the game isn't available on steam yet and has been available on another store for a year now. Too many games are being lost to epic and steam users are angry about this. All it comes down too, nothing else, nothing more. What these users need to do is get onto valve and get valve to get games back onto steam.

[Atomizer]

Originally posted by dragonsphotoworks:

Hell if 50k people actually bought game id be surprised due to how niche game is.

According to the devs, the game sold over 500k on Epic, I think it easily could have done 1 million sales on Steam.
You underestimate how many people are actually on Steam, and this is not that niche of a game, I mean, sure, it is no mainstream game, but the audience isn't that small.
You might have heard numbers like over 90 million monthly active users on Steam(from 2018), heck, even using that metric, 50k is 0.56%, and there is way more than that.

Originally posted by dragonsphotoworks:

Im sure they have used 10,000,000$ in funds to get game going to point it is. That would mean if they published ONLY on steam, they would of needed to sell 500,000 copies just to break even. Seems Factorio sold 1.8 Million copies on BOTH their website and steam over 8 YEARS. That is not a lot compared to some other games. IF Factorio sold every copy for 20$ profit..thats just $36 million total. BUT took 8 years to reach. So divide $36m by 8... $4.5mil per year. You want satisfactory to take 8+ years to finish? Since far as i see those factorio sales are for FINISHED product.

Im surprised how many people think having to wait ONE year on a game that is going through extra development entitles them to free copies? What if they hadnt sold it at all and waited an extra year... forcing you to wait. How many would be crying over it?

You do know the only people who asked for free copies were people who bought it on Epic right? I didn't see anyone else asking for it, some people who waited have said they want a larger discount, but none asking for a free key.

Originally posted by dragonsphotoworks:

Do i like the fact had to buy on EPIC Not in the slightest as i dont like the launcher. Id prefer it on steam. Do i think devs greedy for trying to ensure game didnt crash and burn? of course not! Do they own you anything? Not in the slightest.
Did you pay for ANY of their development?
Did you pay their food bills?
Did you pay their rental fees?
Did you pay their morgages?
Did you pay anything????

Then since have zero funds or time invested in this, what gives you the entitlement to demand anything? They have put in 100% of the effort and you did ZERO. All you had to do was wait one year. Which if a AAA game is delayed o you expect them to give you free keys? Is sony puts a game out late on PS4 does that mean they owe you a xbox key for free?

I have $50, it is yours right now, what will you do for it?
It is the same concept, we have all this money, what will the Satisfactory devs do in order to get it? Just because we have not yet handed over the money, doesn't mean we have no rights, this kind of thinking of just SUCK IT UP when it comes to games, is why the industry is the way it is.
Microsoft got away with charging a subscription to unlock the ability to use your internet on Xbox(multiplayer), they accepted it, Sony followed suit, and finally Nintendo did as well, now to play multiplayer on console you have to pay a subscription fee, I don't care what other BS "freebies" they throw into the deal, or how cheap the service is.
This is how I view the Epic Game Store exclusivity deals, as the "next step", and if I don't want what comes after, it needs to stop here.

[Ganger]

Originally posted by Atomizer:

Originally posted by dragonsphotoworks:

Hell if 50k people actually bought game id be surprised due to how niche game is.

According to the devs, the game sold over 500k on Epic, I think it easily could have done 1 million sales on Steam.
You underestimate how many people are actually on Steam, and this is not that niche of a game, I mean, sure, it is no mainstream game, but the audience isn't that small.
You might have heard numbers like over 90 million monthly active users on Steam(from 2018), heck, even using that metric, 50k is 0.56%, and there is way more than that.

The thing is... the gamers waiting for the steam release will still buy the game once released on steam. So the developers will always be the winners reguardless, infact some players will re-buy the game twice, its a win win for developers and we will see more and more of this happening over the years unless valve changes something.

But we will never know for sure how many units would of sold on steam, could of been one million, could of been 600k, we never know for sure.

[Landshark]

Originally posted by Ganger:

Its not the game itself, what steam users are mad about is because the game isn't available on steam yet and has been available on another store for a year now. Too many games are being lost to epic and steam users are angry about this. All it comes down too, nothing else, nothing more. What these users need to do is get onto valve and get valve to get games back onto steam.

Which is insanity. The entitled a**hats are coming out of the woodwork here. It's like they are married to Steam or something.

Hey people, just so you know, every single one of you has bought things at stores because they are only available their exclusively, cars, food, even other games.

In my 30 years of gaming, this is one of the most crybaby events I've ever seen.

[Dinger]

Originally posted by dragonsphotoworks:

Ok here goes.. I am not a fan of epic at all. But the entitlement i see on steam and pure idiocy explains why the devs would respond to this fan base in way have.

entitlement and pure idiocy? I think I can see where this is going but what the hell, let's play.

They have a game that is going to cost millions to design and program.

Citation needed

They have people that rely on the sales of this game to pay their bills and feed their families.

All the above and more is so hard for people to understand??

The fact is this regardless what YOU think or demand. their focus has to be and is on their own employees. They need to have a home to live in and food to eat regardless of what your believed entitlement demands. Pure and simple YES THEY ARE IN IT FOR MONEY!!

I'll lump this lot together because it's all the same, It's not hard to understand at all, every business relies on revenue to pay their employees, what seems to be hard to understand is you lot thinking that pissing off a niche customer base by forcing them to wait over 15 months if they didn't want to buy the game on an objectively inferior platform is a recipe for long term commercial success and viability.

Do you go to work for free or do you expect your boss to pay you? If boss cant pay you are you going to just keep working for years for free? You all seem to expect game designers to do just that.

I do not expect game designers to work for free, I expect them to produce a product I want and sell it to me at a price I will pay through a platform I will use, I will not accept Denuvo in any form and any association with epic paid exclusivity is an instant disqualifier which will result in a publisher block, meet those criteria and I buy, fail one of them and I won't, simple.

They had no gaerenty that game would make X amount of sales. And they had limited funds. They wanted to publish on steam due to amount of users which makes sense.

But would make $20 per sale here. And $26 per sale on EPIC.
But on steam would get ZERO bonus funds. And would get Millions from epic.

If you need sales guarantees you are obviously not confident in the quality of your product, indeed having such a guarantee actively discourages a quality focus since you're getting paid anyway.

I hope those "millions" from epic are enough to make up for however many $20 per sale they're now going to lose as a result of that decision, and however many $X per sale they're also going to lose on all their future releases.

If epic gives them just $1,000,000 for development. To get same from steam would need to sell 50,000 games JUST to match what epic could give them. I dont know sales numbers offhand. But i dont see 50,000 people on steam saying would buy the game.....

Hell if 50k people actually bought game id be surprised due to how niche game is.
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Fine, then epic is their customer, they don't need me or my money.

So point is simply this... They took the best way to get game funded that would ENSURE all you entitled people would get best product possible. And ensure they didnt loose their homes incase game didnt sell.

Who is the more entitled, a customer wanting to buy the product on the best platform or the publisher expecting customers to either use an inferior platform or wait 15+ months to pay full price?

Im sure they have used 10,000,000$ in funds to get game going to point it is. That would mean if they published ONLY on steam, they would of needed to sell 500,000 copies just to break even.

Again citation needed, also why would they spend so much on development of what you claim is such a niche product it would need to sell 10 times what you would be surprised if they actually sold?

Seems Factorio sold 1.8 Million copies on BOTH their website and steam over 8 YEARS. That is not a lot compared to some other games. IF Factorio sold every copy for 20$ profit..thats just $36 million total. BUT took 8 years to reach. So divide $36m by 8... $4.5mil per year. You want satisfactory to take 8+ years to finish? Since far as i see those factorio sales are for FINISHED product.

2 million as of 27-12-19, with 90+% of sales and 96.7% of all owners on Steam, game was released on Steam EA 25-2-16 at £15, first million sales were achieved 26-5-17 with the price rising to £21 16-4-18, obviously we don't have the exact breakdown of when that second million sales were made but if we split it evenly across the 2.5 years we arrive at a figure of ~£33.6m in revenue less Steam's cut in 4 years.

https://factorio.com/blog/post/fff-327
https://www.factorio.com/blog/post/fff-192
https://steamdb.info/app/427520/

Im surprised how many people think having to wait ONE year on a game that is going through extra development entitles them to free copies? What if they hadnt sold it at all and waited an extra year... forcing you to wait. How many would be crying over it?

Having to wait is not the issue, anyone who has a problem with waiting for any product to be actually produced has bigger issues than I can help with.

The issue is that once the product is ready and released to the market, the publishers are taking money from epic in the form of their anti-competition anti-customer paid exclusivity deals and artifically restricting access to their products to an objectively inferior platform, forcing customers to either use said objectively inferior platform or wait until the exclusivity period ends. A year not on sale followed by a general release would have been far preferable and generated a hell of a lot less of a backlash.

Do i like the fact had to buy on EPIC Not in the slightest as i dont like the launcher. Id prefer it on steam. Do i think devs greedy for trying to ensure game didnt crash and burn? of course not! Do they own you anything? Not in the slightest.
Did you pay for ANY of their development?
Did you pay their food bills?
Did you pay their rental fees?
Did you pay their morgages?
Did you pay anything????

Whether you like it or not is irrelevant, you bought, therefore you supported both epic's anti-competition and anti-customer practices and the publishers who sold out to them.

You are correct that the devs owe me nothing, but by the same argument I don't owe them a damned thing either.

Then since have zero funds or time invested in this, what gives you the entitlement to demand anything? They have put in 100% of the effort and you did ZERO. All you had to do was wait one year. Which if a AAA game is delayed o you expect them to give you free keys? Is sony puts a game out late on PS4 does that mean they owe you a xbox key for free?

Before you demand anything or call anyone greedy look in mirror. Your one demanding stuff for free with out having put in any effort to create product.

I for one am not demanding anything, we're way past that point. It's Coffee Stain who are coming crawling back going "hey guys, we know we made you wait 15 months and we know we took the piss repeatedly over that time but we're finally ready to let you buy the game on Steam now" I'm just waiting for the day this game hits a Humble bundle with my choice of platform and the option to set the publisher split to 0, then I will buy it.

[dragonsphotoworks]

Originally posted by Atomizer:

It is the same concept, we have all this money, what will the Satisfactory devs do in order to get it? Just because we have not yet handed over the money, doesn't mean we have no rights, this kind of thinking of just SUCK IT UP when it comes to games, is why the industry is the way it is.
Microsoft got away with charging a subscription to unlock the ability to use your internet on Xbox(multiplayer), they accepted it, Sony followed suit, and finally Nintendo did as well, now to play multiplayer on console you have to pay a subscription fee, I don't care what other BS "freebies" they throw into the deal, or how cheap the service is.
This is how I view the Epic Game Store exclusivity deals, as the "next step", and if I don't want what comes after, it needs to stop here.

Didnt say have no rights. I said dont have room for demands. But... then again you do. you have right to buy or not buy depending on your choice.

And its nothing like suck it up. People are going nuts over fact it was on epic first and removed from steam due to accepting contract with epic. "not all games release on PS and Xbox but people dont go off handle like here".

You have right to decide since dont like epic to buy game. But you DONT have right to demand free copy or discounted copies. You CAN ask or hope for one. AND if choose wait for them. But just because it was on epic and not steam does in no way require a discount.

I also said i dont care for epic. I never said support them or suck it up.... I dont like how epic tries steal games. But if devs decide their most profitable or safe manor is to go with EPIC for a year who are we to demand otherwise? As for subscriptions i was against it from start and still am. And dont buy games that require them. And after PS4 i would be buying anymore playstations due to subscription crap. Thats my choice. People forget difference between choice and demand.

If dont like some thing then simply dont purchase it. Always welcome to discuss issue with others. And if others agree to work together to try make changes. But simply going "i dont like some thing so i demand you change it now!!" is BS. They made it subscription to make money. You go to work to make money. So you can do things to increase your capital but companies are not allowed to? I dont like suscriptions and i choose to show it by not getting them. When asked my option i state im against it and why. I dont go flaming posts screaming about demanding change or my hate for some thing. "Not saying you did."

My point remains... People are not entitled to anything. If they choose not to discount on release thats their choice. Simply wait for discount. They went route that for them was safest way to ensure would break even and be able to produce best product they could. Seems people want games released the second they are in conception.... then cry about it taking any time to develope. And write horrible reviews due to it.... then wonder why game is never finished when people read reviews and dont buy game... There are tons of games that would fit that discription on steam. Also for years all you see is people complaining about steam in one way or other.... Green light feasco... And many others. So if steam has so many issues then why those SAME people cry when a game chooses a different route for release?

[Atomizer]

Originally posted by Ganger:

Originally posted by Atomizer:

According to the devs, the game sold over 500k on Epic, I think it easily could have done 1 million sales on Steam.
You underestimate how many people are actually on Steam, and this is not that niche of a game, I mean, sure, it is no mainstream game, but the audience isn't that small.
You might have heard numbers like over 90 million monthly active users on Steam(from 2018), heck, even using that metric, 50k is 0.56%, and there is way more than that.

The thing is... the gamers waiting for the steam release will still buy the game once released on steam. So the developers will always be the winners reguardless, infact some players will re-buy the game twice, its a win win for developers and we will see more and more of this happening over the years unless valve changes something.

But we will never know for sure how many units would of sold on steam, could of been one million, could of been 600k, we never know for sure.

The fact people are buying these exclusives in droves on Epic, means they "win", doesn't mean I am going to start supporting the practice, it is part of why I am even voicing my opinion publicly, because I know where this goes.

The issue of buying this game on Steam is also in a gray area, do I support the devs on Steam to say "hey, the Epic exclusivity was a poor choice", or do I not support the devs on Steam and say "I am punishing you for your poor choice", the first could end up "We made so much more than we thought, we should keep taking the deals", or the second one "Well, we didn't make as much on Steam, we should keep taking the deals", win/win for the devs, isn't always a win for consumers.

Originally posted by Landshark:

Originally posted by Ganger:

Its not the game itself, what steam users are mad about is because the game isn't available on steam yet and has been available on another store for a year now. Too many games are being lost to epic and steam users are angry about this. All it comes down too, nothing else, nothing more. What these users need to do is get onto valve and get valve to get games back onto steam.

Which is insanity. The entitled a**hats are coming out of the woodwork here. It's like they are married to Steam or something.

Hey people, just so you know, every single one of you has bought things at stores because they are only available their exclusively, cars, food, even other games.

In my 30 years of gaming, this is one of the most crybaby events I've ever seen.

All cars/food products etc are more or less the same, unlike games, if you talk about car dealerships, they deal with their own products, same with supermarkets and restaurants, the main difference with supermarkets, is they make a lot of deals for products which they repackage under their own label, but other supermarkets still carry the same goods.

[dragonsphotoworks]

Originally posted by Dinger:

..

You make some points i understand and agree with.
They make a product... yes want to get most people can to buy it so SHOULD focus part of develpoment on that you are correct. But they dont need to, it just helps make sales. They want your money yes... But if that was all they wanted they would of made a different game that was more appealing to larger audience.

I did not want a flame post if thats what you thought by your "play along" comment. Im just annoyed and probably bled into my wording. Im just tired of the demands i see on here. No not all are doing it but lot are. Also some games are not going with steam due simply to reviews. People expect to get full value of some thing when buy a EA game. And when some thing isnt exactly what they want they write bad review. Which decreases income since some will wait to buy or simply not buy. Which is fair...

I dont know exact numbers. But that doesnt really matter too much. The devs looked at potential sales and income on steam. And saw a better route with EPIC. I think personally if they had released on steam it wouldnt be as polished a game as is now. But thats opinion.

Quote - Who is the more entitled, a customer wanting to buy the product on the best platform or the publisher expecting customers to either use an inferior platform or wait 15+ months to pay full price?

Answer - Best platform... Look at all the complaints steam gets alone. But anyway.. Niether is actually. Customer whats best possible thats normal. But see your missing a lot in second half of your comment... You make it seem as if they did it just to spite. They did it to advance game development. So should say.. "Or the publisher trying to produce best product for customers while either giving choice to use an inferior platform and help give feedback or wait 15+ months to pay full price for a large more developed game?".

Yes i bought it and its one of very few i have bought. maybe 5 on epic hundreds on steam....

But what about this.. Game comes out on XBOX only as exclusive. But then releases down road on PS4. Should XBOX owners get free copy? Should PS4 buyers get discount? Doesnt happen. So why people demand that on PC?

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What im trying to say and seem to be failing is... DEVs took route they thought would be most profitable to ensure games development to all it can be. They went route many dont like but it was their choice.

People seem to believe since devs made choice they dont like that they now deserve free stuff or discounted. And that that declares the devs are horrible. If people do not like route they took then fine dont buy game. You have right to choose. But i dont see where people get off on attacking them and demanding stuff. And spreading hate. Yes EPIC sucks but if Value simply offered same thing im willing to bet Devs would of stayed with steam.

Money upfront or MAYBE money later... thats what it broke down to as a choice for the devs. I wish they had stayed with steam i was willing to buy it here during EA. But they chose epic.

If wish to boycott EPIC by all means do it. If want to post reason hate epic and think more should boycott then do it. What im talking about is the agresivness that does no good. Discuss things as adults. Post view and discuss things. Fighting each other accomplishes nothing.

If you and i sit down for couple hours over coffee and discuss some thing we likely to come to agreement. We run into a allay and simply start hitting each other with bats would do nothing to change others view. Which would in turn accomplish nothing. Thats part of what im trying to get across.

EDIT_ due to your response i edited opening part. Hope it alieves some of the issue

[dragonsphotoworks]

Originally posted by Atomizer:

The fact people are buying these exclusives in droves on Epic, means they "win", doesn't mean I am going to start supporting the practice, it is part of why I am even voicing my opinion publicly, because I know where this goes.

The issue of buying this game on Steam is also in a gray area, do I support the devs on Steam to say "hey, the Epic exclusivity was a poor choice", or do I not support the devs on Steam and say "I am punishing you for your poor choice", the first could end up "We made so much more than we thought, we should keep taking the deals", or the second one "Well, we didn't make as much on Steam, we should keep taking the deals", win/win for the devs, isn't always a win for consumers.

Good point. But if see on steam tons of sales and EPIC dies off on sales. Then also could be said it shows steam would of been best platform to start on as well. It all depends on who you look at it.

Originally posted by Atomizer:

All cars/food products etc are more or less the same, unlike games, if you talk about car dealerships, they deal with their own products, same with supermarkets and restaurants, the main difference with supermarkets, is they make a lot of deals for products which they repackage under their own label, but other supermarkets still carry the same goods.

Foodlion, walmart and others carry store brand only items so not all products avialable in other stores. Now if mean type then ya sure. Foodlion bread sold only at foodlion. But bread sold everywhere. Same games sold everywhere but some PS4 games only on PS4. Also side note Walmart has lot of items that are walmart ecxclusive. Fish tanks for one are NOT the same as bought other places :-) "was opening petstore and found out info from distributors lol"

We can agree on fact devs took route we dont approve of. But in end its their choice. It is NOW our choice to show we buy on steam only and buy only when releases here. Or we dont buy game and they take it as steam not profitable enough. We see it one way, but that doesnt mean next person will see it same way.

But if we can do it in polite manor then we will get far. If breaks down to the troll/hate posts and discussions then we achieve nothing.

[Weaver]

We still have sad kids raging about Epic for vague undefined or simply false reasons, just because they jumped on the bandwagon without questioning and will ride it till they die. Like the Epic blah blah Tencent blah blah cause China bad! kids...except, fun fact, Tencent is not a Chinese majority owned company. The largest share of Tencent is owned by Prosus, a European based company, which is actually owned by Naspers, which is centered in South Africa. Naspers is run by a bunch of white guys.

[dragonsphotoworks]

Originally posted by Weaver:

We still have sad kids raging about Epic for vague undefined or simply false reasons, just because they jumped on the bandwagon without questioning and will ride it till they die. Like the Epic blah blah Tencent blah blah cause China bad! kids...except, fun fact, Tencent is not a Chinese majority owned company. The largest share of Tencent is owned by Prosus, a European based company, which is actually owned by Naspers, which is centered in South Africa. Naspers is run by a bunch of white guys.

I just wish people would discuss things and take others view into account. Instead of i say so, so im right group. Or the i heard it on the internet so must be true...

[Switorik]

I don't want to use epic because of there lack of ... well ... everything? Steam comes fully loaded with support and features. If all they cared about was money, sell directly and on store fronts. I'd buy the game directly before I use steam or epic but that's probably just me. I'm personally sick of the exclusivity. Let the players decide what store front to use instead of greedy business tactics.

[Dark Phoenix]

Originally posted by Switorik:

I don't want to use epic because of there lack of ... well ... everything? Steam comes fully loaded with support and features. If all they cared about was money, sell directly and on store fronts. I'd buy the game directly before I use steam or epic but that's probably just me. I'm personally sick of the exclusivity. Let the players decide what store front to use instead of greedy business tactics.

ANd how many of those features does epic need?

I can think of...maybe two...

Shopping cart.
Better searchability.

Anything else is a nice to have.

[Landshark]

Originally posted by Switorik:

Let the players decide what store front to use instead of greedy business tactics.

When you have a company that is basically a monopoly in the digital PC game space, it's hard to be competitive with them without some kind of edge to get you started. That edge, in this case, is exclusivity.

Think like you own a digital game story business. What would you do to get people to choose your store front instead of Steam? Would you go the GOG.com route by specializing in older games? Would you go the humblebundle route in specializing in passing profits to charity?

If you wanted to compete directly with Steam, selling indies, AAA games, etc...what would you do to get people to buy from your store instead of Steam? What business strategy would be your 'catch' to get gamers to choose you?

If you can think of a business plan that is superior to EPIC, then you should put that into practice, because it would be a money maker. So far, of the millions of gamers out there, nobody has, at least EPIC is trying to create competition in the digital game space for PC's.

Calling EPIC's exclusivity deals greedy business practices is extremely ignorant. It's definitely not greedy to pay developers MORE for their games than the competing store front does. It's definitely not greedy to actually fund the development of game studios (without taking control of them) so they can reach gamers.

But I'd love to hear your business plan to compete with Steam, and then tell me why your plan hasn't already been done.

[dragonsphotoworks]

Compition is good. with out it you will see prices sky rocket.... Just look what has happened over last few years. Games used to be $20 when released. Now i seen some up to $100..... And dont tell me its more costly and harder to make games now. Considering most companies use a premade engine and premade assests "AAA companies" it should be EASIER. Hell look at all the FIFA games and their price and fact most barely different from one prior.