Satisfactory sales : Huge success

[Hooch]

Huh, who'd have thunk...

"Epic Games store exclusive Satisfactory is a big sales success. Over 500,000 sold."

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2019-06-08-epic-games-store-exclusive-satisfactory-is-a-big-sales-success

https://youtu.be/RvKmQs6m_iY

[Hooch]

Originally posted by Drunken:

And how many of those sales were the initial EGS purchase to get the exclusive deal in the first place ?
Samurai shodown was offered a pre order of hundreds of thousands but turned it down. So I would be willing to bet that any Epic pre order bungs would get counted into the sales to inflate the numbers.

That's quite possible. But it's also irrelevant. Those units STILL have to be purchased by consumers. The store will offer the studio a guaranteed revenue or guaranteed sales unit amount to secure the exclusivity. If the latter, those units STILL are sold to consumers. It's not like there are a couple hundred thousand unused keys lying in a cyber vault somewhere. Those units are the first to be sold.

[MinionJoe]

Originally posted by Aionion:

If that's the case, then you wouldn't have made such an patently incorrect response.

Believe what you like, Mr. Logic. You've clearly never attended a shareholders' meeting.

Which isn't surprising. Neither Epic nor Coffee Stain, being private corporations, do not hold them. So they'd have no reason to invite you to one.

I would recommend expanding your experience with the business world.

[Hooch]

Originally posted by MinionJoe:

Originally posted by Aionion:

If that's the case, then you wouldn't have made such an patently incorrect response.

Believe what you like, Mr. Logic. You've clearly never attended a shareholders' meeting.

Which isn't surprising. Neither Epic nor Coffee Stain, being private corporations, do not hold them. So they'd have no reason to invite you to one.

I would recommend expanding your experience with the business world.

Told you. You are so predictable.

Once again, you utterly failed to support anything you claim.

So easy.

[MinionJoe]

Originally posted by Aionion:

Told you. You are so predictable.

Once again, you utterly failed to support anything you claim.

So easy.

Project much?

You posted a YouTube video where a Coffee Stain rep states a sales figure and you've completely failed to explain why they did this.

You flat out disavow that it's to appeal to potential customers. So it's not marketing.

CS isn't a publicly traded company. So it's not to attract investors with their recent success.

All you've said is the video is important "to them". So it's nothing but a pointless blog.

Whoop de frickin do.

I've got an old online diary I used to keep over on Live Journal. You want to read it? Seems to be right up your alley.

[Drunken]

Originally posted by Aionion:

Originally posted by Drunken:

And how many of those sales were the initial EGS purchase to get the exclusive deal in the first place ?
Samurai shodown was offered a pre order of hundreds of thousands but turned it down. So I would be willing to bet that any Epic pre order bungs would get counted into the sales to inflate the numbers.

That's quite possible. But it's also irrelevant. Those units STILL have to be purchased by consumers. The store will offer the studio a guaranteed revenue or guaranteed sales unit amount to secure the exclusivity. If the latter, those units STILL are sold to consumers. It's not like there are a couple hundred thousand unused keys lying in a cyber vault somewhere. Those units are the first to be sold.

Hardly irrelevant if they are trying to fluff the figures to make the sales seem good. To the publisher it wouldn't matter if the key was sold to Epic or a consumer. For example what if Epic has pre bought 500,000 copies of the game and the extra 7000 or so are from consumer purchases what is to stop the sales being passed off as 507,000. Who says Epic have to sell their keys first they want their store to look good and if they are wanting to get publishers to put out fantastic sales results it works in Epics favour to not sell from their pool until sales figures are out and no one cares about any further sales.

[Hooch]

Originally posted by MinionJoe:

Originally posted by Aionion:

Told you. You are so predictable.

Once again, you utterly failed to support anything you claim.

So easy.

Project much?

Don't use words you don't know the meaning of.

You posted a YouTube video where a Coffee Stain rep states a sales figure and you've completely failed to explain why they did this.

That's already been explained. It's a statement about the game's sales figures and how it's the best launch for any game from CoffeeStain. So far they have released about 11 games. Satisfactory is the most successful of all the games they have released so far. Studios announce sales figures all the time. This is nothing new. This is doing what studios do. Not sure why you are confused about this.

You flat out disavow that it's to appeal to potential customers. So it's not marketing.

Nope. You made a claim that this announcement is unlike any other studio in that it is pleading for customers. I asked you how or where in the video they are doing such a thing. I also pointed out this is the same thing as what all studios do. You want to take this very normal announcement and play make believe that it is unique and has never been done before. It's utter nonsense.

You also claimed "OTHER studios use verifiable sales figures to attract customers[ and investors."

That is a FALSE statement. One that you have been challenged to support a few times. Yet you can't. We both know why.

[Hooch]

Originally posted by Drunken:

Originally posted by Aionion:

That's quite possible. But it's also irrelevant. Those units STILL have to be purchased by consumers. The store will offer the studio a guaranteed revenue or guaranteed sales unit amount to secure the exclusivity. If the latter, those units STILL are sold to consumers. It's not like there are a couple hundred thousand unused keys lying in a cyber vault somewhere. Those units are the first to be sold.

Hardly irrelevant if they are trying to fluff the figures to make the sales seem good. To the publisher it wouldn't matter if the key was sold to Epic or a consumer. For example what if Epic has pre bought 500,000 copies of the game and the extra 7000 or so are from consumer purchases what is to stop the sales being passed off as 507,000. Who says Epic have to sell their keys first they want their store to look good and if they are wanting to get publishers to put out fantastic sales results it works in Epics favour to not sell from their pool until sales figures are out and no one cares about any further sales.

Great! Now all you have to do is prove that's the case. Looking forward to the data.


But more importantly, EGS didn't buy copies of the game. That wasn't a part of the exclusivity deal. Each deal is different with each studio. There are many factors involved, several of which have been explained both by EGS and various studios who do business with EGS. For this particular deal, EGS paid an exclusivity fee/bonus, as per CoffeeStain, several months ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7V4UPiBOshY

[MinionJoe]

Originally posted by Aionion:

Originally posted by MinionJoe:

Project much?

Don't use words you don't know the meaning of.

Sorry if I'm using words you don't understand.

You posted a YouTube video where a Coffee Stain rep states a sales figure and you've completely failed to explain why they did this.

That's already been explained. It's a statement about the game's sales figures and how it's the best launch for any game from CoffeeStain. So far they have released about 11 games. Satisfactory is the most successful of all the games they have released so far. Studios announce sales figures all the time. This is nothing new. This is doing what studios do. Not sure why you are confused about this.

And, once again, you simply reiterate what has been done and not why it was done.

You flat out disavow that it's to appeal to potential customers. So it's not marketing.

Nope. You made a claim that this announcement is unlike any other studio in that it is pleading for customers.

Nope. I've maintained that it's exactly like announcements done by other companies with the purpose of attracting customers and/or investors. Except CS hasn't substantiated their claims.

You're the one denying that the video was posted to appeal to customers.

Do you need the time/date stamp of where you claimed this? Because you seem to have problems understanding what you've said and posted.

[Drunken]

Originally posted by Aionion:

Originally posted by Drunken:

Hardly irrelevant if they are trying to fluff the figures to make the sales seem good. To the publisher it wouldn't matter if the key was sold to Epic or a consumer. For example what if Epic has pre bought 500,000 copies of the game and the extra 7000 or so are from consumer purchases what is to stop the sales being passed off as 507,000. Who says Epic have to sell their keys first they want their store to look good and if they are wanting to get publishers to put out fantastic sales results it works in Epics favour to not sell from their pool until sales figures are out and no one cares about any further sales.

Great! Now all you have to do is prove that's the case. Looking forward to the data.


But more importantly, EGS didn't buy copies of the game. That wasn't a part of the exclusivity deal. Each deal is different with each studio. There are many factors involved, several of which have been explained both by EGS and various studios who do business with EGS. For this particular deal, EGS paid an exclusivity fee/bonus, as per CoffeeStain, several months ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7V4UPiBOshY

Sorry I don't need to prove anything I am trying to provide an example that companies use to massage sales figures to suit reports.
Companies may not outright lie but they twist the truth to extremes all the time especially if future business is dependant on it.
How would it look to future publishers/devs saw an exclusive title report 7374 units sold for example ?

You seem to have in depth of the exclusivity deal so can you provide evidence that the fee/bonus was not a pre order, no you cant unless you are an employee who is privy to the information.
Most of the exclusivity deal details that have come out are based around paying for x number of units so it is more likely that was the case here as well.

Live venues do this sort of thing all the time they sell tickets to their own resellers so that they can claim every event is sold out on the first day of ticket sales.

As it is doubtful we will ever get to see how many are playing a game on the EGS like we can with steam we are never likely to know if the game was a success or not.

[MinionJoe]

Originally posted by Drunken:

Companies may not outright lie but they twist the truth to extremes all the time especially if future business is dependant on it.

A perfect example is when a few of us caught Electronic Arts/Maxis doing this with the user count for Spore back in 2008-9.

By crunching their self-published metrics, we pointed out that the average player was only spending 10 minutes in game and creating just 5 creations (including auto-saved progression edits) before quitting the game entirely.

Turns out, they were counting every account, across all platforms, including accounts created for the free Creature Creator (available two weeks before Spore was released and not transferable to the main game) and the five sub-accounts created per main account (whether or not they were actually used).

The removed all public metrics the very next week.

Of course, the reason EA did this was because of their shareholder's meeting and they needed some (inflated) numbers to throw at investors.

EA lost $1 billion in their FY2010.

Probably not related.

[Hooch]

Originally posted by MinionJoe:

Originally posted by Aionion:

Don't use words you don't know the meaning of.

Sorry if I'm using words you don't understand.

You using words that you don't know the meaning of does not equate to you using words I don't understand. That was one of the worst takes on Steam history. Grats!

That's already been explained. It's a statement about the game's sales figures and how it's the best launch for any game from CoffeeStain. So far they have released about 11 games. Satisfactory is the most successful of all the games they have released so far. Studios announce sales figures all the time. This is nothing new. This is doing what studios do. Not sure why you are confused about this.

And, once again, you simply reiterate what has been done and not why it was done.

It's done for precisely the SAME reason that ALL studios do this exact same thing. To hail the success (or failure) of their project. What CS has done is no different than what any other studio does, despite your unsupported assertions otherwise.

Nope. You made a claim that this announcement is unlike any other studio in that it is pleading for customers.

Nope. I've maintained that it's exactly like announcements done by other companies with the purpose of attracting customers and/or investors. Except CS hasn't substantiated their claims.

Nope. You claimed that CS was UNIQUE in that they did not provide verifiable sales figures to players. And that was either a blatant lie on your part or you just not knowing anything about the gaming industry. No studio has ever released verifiable sales data to gamers.

You're the one denying that the video was posted to appeal to customers.

Never once have I done so. You are lying yet again.

Do you need the time/date stamp of where you claimed this? Because you seem to have problems understanding what you've said and posted.

Sure. Post it.

Also...

Nope. You made a claim that this announcement is unlike any other studio in that it is pleading for customers. I asked you how or where in the video they are doing such a thing. I also pointed out this is the same thing as what all studios do. You want to take this very normal announcement and play make believe that it is unique and has never been done before. It's utter nonsense.

To wit...

Originally posted by MinionJoe:

Originally posted by Aionion:

Yes, must like 100% of all other studios who announce their sales figures.

OTHER studios use verifiable sales figures to attract customers and investors.

Me: CS is doing exactly what other studios do.

You: No, OTHER studios provide verifiable sales figures in their announcements to customers.

Entire gaming industry: WTF?!

You are also confused about the DISTINCT DIFFERENCES in data given to the general public and that of actual investors. The data is NOT the same. Yet you believe they are identical data sets and used for the same purpose. That's ridiculous. How could you not know this?

[Hooch]

Originally posted by Drunken:

Originally posted by Aionion:

Great! Now all you have to do is prove that's the case. Looking forward to the data.


But more importantly, EGS didn't buy copies of the game. That wasn't a part of the exclusivity deal. Each deal is different with each studio. There are many factors involved, several of which have been explained both by EGS and various studios who do business with EGS. For this particular deal, EGS paid an exclusivity fee/bonus, as per CoffeeStain, several months ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7V4UPiBOshY

Sorry I don't need to prove anything I am trying to provide an example that companies use to massage sales figures to suit reports.

If you are going to claim that X company did Y thing, then yes, you need to prove that.

Since you are not making any further claims about CoffeeStain here, we can consider the issue closed.

You seem to have in depth of the exclusivity deal so can you provide evidence that the fee/bonus was not a pre order,

Until there is reason to believe that CS was lying about what their deal is, there exists no reason to believe they were. This ought to self-evident, but I realize that for those whose narrative it does not fit, it's very difficult to accept.

In short, unless you have evidence of something being the case, then there is no logical reason to believe it is actually the case.

All you are doing is arguing from ignorance. No different than a flat earther or conspiracy theorist. FACTS really do matter. Having contempt for facts doesn't help a position, it exposes its flaw.

[Hooch]

Originally posted by MinionJoe:

Originally posted by Drunken:

Companies may not outright lie but they twist the truth to extremes all the time especially if future business is dependant on it.

A perfect example is when a few of us caught Electronic Arts/Maxis doing this with the user count for Spore back in 2008-9.

By crunching their self-published metrics, we pointed out that the average player was only spending 10 minutes in game and creating just 5 creations (including auto-saved progression edits) before quitting the game entirely.

Turns out, they were counting every account, across all platforms, including accounts created for the free Creature Creator (available two weeks before Spore was released and not transferable to the main game) and the five sub-accounts created per main account (whether or not they were actually used).

The removed all public metrics the very next week.

Of course, the reason EA did this was because of their shareholder's meeting and they needed some (inflated) numbers to throw at investors.

EA lost $1 billion in their FY2010.

Probably not related.

The earth is not flat. Elvis really is dead. The moon landing was not a Hollywood Hoax. Believing in silly conspiracy theories is not rational, nor is it healthy.

[MinionJoe]

Originally posted by Aionion:

Originally posted by MinionJoe:

Sorry if I'm using words you don't understand.

You using words that you don't know the meaning of does not equate to you using words I don't understand. That was one of the worst takes on Steam history. Grats!

Believe what you like, mate. Ignorance must be bliss.

I cut the rest of your pointless ramble. See above for my response.

(And by "above", I mean the line higher in this reply. I wasn't sure you'd know what "above" meant.)

[Hooch]

Originally posted by MinionJoe:

Originally posted by Aionion:

You using words that you don't know the meaning of does not equate to you using words I don't understand. That was one of the worst takes on Steam history. Grats!

Believe what you like, mate. Ignorance must be bliss. :KentHappy:

I cut the rest of your pointless ramble. See above for my response.

(And by "above", I mean the line higher in this reply. I wasn't sure you'd know what "above" meant.)

Already refuted.

That was easy.


And I believe this is what, the 5th time now you have been able to support your claim that other studios provide verifiable sales figures to the public and CS was different in that they didn't?

Not mature enough to admit the error, eh?