What the hell ??!! Is this really a good game ?

[Fuinril]

The title is only an half troll.... I saw excellent reviews about NIER so I decided to buy it. But now I need some hopes to continue playing....

First launch, selcted hard difficulty... the introduction made me nuts until I read about how you should NOT play it on hard because it's a near impossible challenge for a new player to NIER, especially since dodge moves are not explained.... Well, thank you game for explaining to me how to move but not how to dodge....

After some wasted hours of frustration I just read a forum, learn that dodge has no cooldown, downgrade the difficulty to normal and this part was not that hard...

I then switch the difficulty to hard again. And every robot, even the tiniest one, nearly OS me without me seeing anything.... Forum again and I installed FAR. WAYYYYYY better ! Robots still hit very hard but at least I see them so I can dodge. A pure shame you NEED an unofficial fix just to be able to play normally....

I then began to enjoy the game. The first boss was interesting and pretty simple once you understand the patterns, soundtrack is awesome as well as the artistic direction. Combat seems pretty simple but enjoyable. Story seems interesting.

And now I'm at the theme park boss... And frustration again ! Not only did he OS me with every attack (I read forums, seems like I need some chips to be able to play.... Could have been a good thing to explain this to me instead of a cutscene to adjust brightness...), but after a time the camera locks itself and the boss throw waves of balls at me I can absolutely not see, so I spam the dodge button like a ♥♥♥♥♥♥ hoping not to be hit (because, you know, each one OS...)... which was never the case on more than 10 attempts.

Pretty tired I decided to switch the difficulty to normal again. First : the lock make a HUGE difference ! Too much of a difference ! No auto targetting in hard is fine, no lock on a game with a camera so lazy is not ! This + the (huge !) damage reduction was enough to allow me to push the boss a little until corpses fall and then.... camera lock again ! Forced to chain cheap mini games as their "hack" attacks are not visible cause of the locked camera..

I eventually died a short while later and stopped. I certainly can down it with one or two more tries but I'm not at all incline to retry for now. I'm frustrated as hell and can not understand all the good reviews I read....



So please, tell me this is not the way all bosses are gonna be, that my camera will not be locked at critical times just so I can randomly die again and again anymore, that I will be able to survive one hit on hard without completly ruining game difficulty playing on normal with some chips and that the story is a masterpiece.... because right now I think this game makes me more frustrated in 5 hours than all the "difficult" games I played theses last years together

[hijarian]

This game exists only for its lore. Its normal setting is for people who accept it and follow the story. Hard mode is clearly added for people who want challenge at all costs. It's not for playing NieR, it's for challenging yourself. This is literally written right in the difficulty selection screen. I completely don't understand the OP here. Designer made this game in such a way that you feel yourself the champion but still have ways to die if you are not careful and make mistakes. On normal.
I completed DOOM(2016) on Ultra-Violence on the first playthrough, and I usually play on the hardest difficulty by default, so I know what I'm talking about. But NieR is not that kind of a game, designer have thought about players like me (and most possibly, you) and clearly wrote everyting right in the difficulty selection screen. There are games which has to be played on normal.

[Brigadeos]

Please dont judge this game for the hard difficulty. Just play it in normal, thats the real experience. Hard is freaking frustrating and not all that fun (except for masochist that like nioh and other crap). This game is a masterpiece but not because of the challenge or the deep battle mechanics, is because the story, the music and the endings are really good, making it an awesome experience. Of course if you dont like games for the story or the ''journey'' and just want to be awesome killing crap maybe this is not your style of game.

[Spacehamster]

I have the same feeling as you OP, introduction is confusing and a disappointment and for me it makes me not want to increase difficulty again.

If you ever buy Nioh: Complete Edition, expect a similar confusing introduction, except less hard. I very recommend that game even with it's intro/tutorial flaws. If you're having a bad day and feel like losing some frustration, this is the fast flesh ripping Dark Souls inspired game for you. Believe me it's great to rip an enemy apart superfast with a fleshhook on a chain. It's a Zen feeling.

I'll start NieR again this weekend, forget about my disappointment and twice wasted time in the intro. My only question to devs is why make the intro so confusing and hard. An introduction should be motivating to go on, not to encoursge playing easy/refund.

Some of other posts of DS comparisons are ridiculous. At least DS doesn't have an intro where you can get your 1st saving opportunity after 40 minutes of playtime.

Anyway weekend is near, time to try again.

[myhr2]

Originally posted by Spacehamster:

I'll start NieR again this weekend, forget about my disappointment and twice wasted time in the intro. My only question to devs is why make the intro so confusing and hard. An introduction should be motivating to go on, not to encoursge playing easy/refund.

My advice : do not consider that you wasted your time, instead, keep that feeling in the back of your head, and try to apply it to the story of the game. Consider the first monologue of 2B, right at the start. It gains so much meaning after having to experience the intro again and again.

As for the fact that an intro should be motivating, the thing is, we are all motivated by different things. Most games go the easy, safe way, the place the player's comfort above everything, they try to be interesting and comfortable, and it is a valid way, probably the most effective to touch the most players.

In the case of games like NieR : Automata, they have things to say, and the trick is that some of those things might be at the cost of the player's comfort. They will be frustrating, or shocking, or not conform to your expectations...because they don't place you, the player, above everything else. Paradoxically, I think those games are more respectful, in a way, because they assume that you will make the effort to listen to what they have to say, even if it's not always comfortable.

This, I feel, is the difference between a video game that is pure entertainment, and a video game that is a piece of art. It's like movies, in that regard, they both have their pros and cons. NieR : Automata has a lot to say...really, a LOT. But it also expects some efforts on your part.

[thearkive]

I remember back in the days when all games threw you to the wolves from the very beginning. Granted, they were made that way so you could stick more quarters in the machine. That only meant you had to learn as you went so you'd get the most out of your money.

[Malagon]

Hard is easy. Learn how to time your dodges and just don't get hit. Break projectiles before they reach you and dodge if they do. It's all about timing and evasion, taking openings when you get them, and not crying like a pansy when you can't handle the difficulty. OP needs to get gud and stop being a whiny noob.

[Method4DMad]

Originally posted by Fuinril:

Originally posted by k1ng r4t:

Sounds to me like OP was raging hard after so many deaths but had to find someone else to blame for his lack of experience

Hmmm was I raging ? Clearly ! I think the post title is clear enough...

The question is "why". You're speaking to someone who has more than 500 hours on dark souls series, which finished salt and sanctuary, which has more than 350 hours on valdis story, etc, etc.... I'm playing video games for more than 30 years now, pretty intensively, and I like challenges especially very hard ones. Sometimes I succeded in it, sometimes no but I like them.

Yes I sometimes rage hard (Ornstein & Smough...), but I never ever made a forum post. Here I did, and, after several days to calm myself, I'm pretty sure this game justify it. As for the reason... just read. You can agree or disagree but just discarding what I'm saying with a "he just rage like crazy lolz" is a bit easy IMHO

Oh I read. Based on your 2000 word dissertation explaining how you couldn't beat a boss others beat just fine...that is the impression I got yes.

On hard it's pretty hard, but not impossible. But on normal I found everything quite easy. Too easy. I NEVER used lock on (you can actually be more accurate w/o it), probably died about 5 times my entire playthrough.

I also never felt blinded or limited by the camera, so....

What I've noticed browsing these forums is, how can I put this, and I don't mean this in a bad way, just....different....I think many of you DS zealots like your "difficulty" to be handed to you on a platter, as is the case with DS, and so struggle to adapt to up/down games like NieR. You're an all or nothing kind of guy, and NieR really isn't an all or nothing kind of game.

I LOVE myhr's summary of it:

"Ultimately, Nier Automata is not a technical game, it's not an easy or a hard game, it just gives you choices to make and let you do with all the tools it offers you, it's not, and I repeat, it's not a simple "choose a difficulty and forget about it". Its forte is its narration, and everything, everything is at the service of said narration."

Not sure why you assumed dodge had a cool down, or why you didn't look at the controls just once to see there is a lock on...For someone with so much gaming experience you should know it's always worth it to look at the control scheme before starting a game. Lock on is pretty clearly listed, and it IS mentioned in the intro...I dunno, just an observation...

We agree on some stuff though...While dodge was touched on, it could have been MUCH better explained, same with counter attack. And it is unfortunate we need the FAR patch to make the game a proper port, though that's really more technical fixes than mechanics, so I can't fault NieR so much as lazy devs who half assed the port to make a quick $$ off the game's critical acclaim. I also agree you can simply spam dodge w/ no real strategy and you're basically invincible. Being able to do this took away pretty much any challenge for me, which is why I don't get these difficulty threads.

THIS is what differentiates the difficulty of NieR vs DS. There is no spamming in DS. There is spamming here. Not in a bad way (imo), just in a "that's how you do it in this game" way...

Like I said, it sounds to me like many of these posters heard this game was hard and so were looking for another DS hack and slash but instead got this and were unable to move away from the methodical approach they use in DS into the track run pace of NieR, making NieR seem a lot harder than it is. You need a why? It's pretty simply really, because this isn't DS, that's why. I wouldn't be surprised if SE purposely built the game to NOT be like DS.

I can see how if you went into this expecting it to work more like DS why you'd be disappointed. But I guess I don't see why anyone would do that in the first place? And if you're going to say you didn't, you sure do like comparing the two....apples and oranges my friend.

[Smithy]

People need to realise this this game is an RPG at its core. Your level and your chips matter a lot. If you do all the side quests and explore everything you will be easily ahead of the curve. Actually the game was far too easy for me because I really outscaled all the enemies from about a third of the way through the game.

The combat IS fun if you actually engage in it rather than running in circles shooting your drone for hours and just dodging. It takes some getting used to the double tap evade (really dumb design choice there) but once you're used to the timing on things it's really not an issue. It's also important to learn the distance of your attacks because generally you have more range on your attacks than enemies do. This lets you attack an enemy who is already mid-attack and stun-lock them out of it.

[myhr2]

Mmmh, we don't have the same definition of RPG, but I have more and more the impression that mine is a relic of the time where RPGs were defined as much by their mechanics than by their story. Ho well, I suppose..."we are trapped in a neverending cycle of debate and arguments"

[Beato_dim]

Originally posted by Smithy:

It takes some getting used to the double tap evade (really dumb design choice there) but once you're used to the timing on things it's really not an issue.

I recall there's a fix for that. I mean, the evade is just one button press on a gamepad, why should it be different on a keyboard?

[Tam]

Originally posted by Beato_dim:

why should it be different on a keyboard?

Because PC port is mentally challenged.
I can not explain default double tap and mouse controll wich makes hacking game a nightmare.

[Pnume]

Overated IMO.

I've just finished a first playthough in hard.

Game mechanics are broken. You can abuse the evade button and use super cheap recovery items ad infinitum to steamroll through everything the game throws at you. I lost quite a bit to the 1st 2 bosses post prologue (the naked guy and the singer) but after that I beat every bosses on the 1st try except for the last phase of Eve (took me 2). No chalenge there, this is no Dark Souls. Of course the last difficulty level should be ridiculously hard but seing how the game and the bosses are designed it's not really a fair game anyway and it would be a shore more than anything else.

The story is super simplistic. Very forgetable even if the art is quite interesting and I quite a liked the ghost is the shellish musics.

The world looks like a lazy MMORPG.

[mnb]

Originally posted by Pnume:

The story is super simplistic

Originally posted by Pnume:

I've just finished a first playthough

eh

[娜贝拉尔·伽玛]

I finished the game in the hardest mod yesterday and the story is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ insane. I had to check the first nier story and after check nier automata for understand everything.

[Smithy]

Originally posted by mnb:

Originally posted by Pnume:

The story is super simplistic

Originally posted by Pnume:

I've just finished a first playthough

eh

same