[spoilers]Can’t understand the plot

[Eclipse]

Hi everyone. It seems strange for me why moon high command wants eternal war with machines if in any case they are interested in win?To the point that they even want to dispose YORHA then they have an upper hand.Well may be they can’t tell androids that humans are gone,but in fact they still can be recreated from DNA samples (and nowhere in game data said that it is impossible).But even if it is impossible to recreate humans,better to destroy alien machines,tell androids another lie (that humans can be saved/recreated) and live in less dangerous world.Well may be androids just want to fight because they are stupid or programmed to fight,though if this is the case plot seems kinda meaningless..

[Eclipse]

Originally posted by lessthanoff:

As Exarch says, command did not have extensive knowledge of Project YoRHa. They knew that humanity was extinct, but not that they were going to one day be sacrificed at the hands of the machine network after being deemed "obsolete." That was something only known by the machine network/N2.

So YoRHa were created by machine network?If this is the case why Adam and Eve had no knowledge of humanity extinction and wanted to lure it to the Earth,but even bunker commander had?In my opinion they were created by moon base androids,but between the endings b and c (eve fight) machine network somehow hacked bunker backdoor (or even moon base) got all s and ss-class documents and used logic virus. At least this makes sense.

[lessthanoff]

Originally posted by Eclipse:

Originally posted by lessthanoff:

As Exarch says, command did not have extensive knowledge of Project YoRHa. They knew that humanity was extinct, but not that they were going to one day be sacrificed at the hands of the machine network after being deemed "obsolete." That was something only known by the machine network/N2.

So YoRHa were created by machine network?If this is the case why Adam and Eve had no knowledge of humanity extinction and wanted to lure it to the Earth,but even bunker commander had?In my opinion they were created by moon base androids,but between the endings b and c (eve fight) machine network somehow hacked bunker backdoor (or even moon base) got all s and ss-class documents and used logic virus. At least this makes sense.

YoRHa was apparently created by earlier androids left by the extinct humans, headed by an android called Zinnia, as was the plan to fabricate humanity's escape and survival on the moon in order to bolster morale. But it's heavily implied that one of the original YoRHa units, no.9 (probably the original scanner type model that would become 9S), was infected by the machine network and created the backdoor into the 13th bunker (the only one we ever see, and also the one apparently linking all other YoRHa satellites to the android network, which is how it spread to all units). The concert readings that go over this don't go into too much detail, but I'm assuming the machine network infiltrated no.9 and prompted him to "alter" Project YoRHa, unbenownst to command, so that once the network gathered enough data from YoRHa to create Adam and Eve, they would send the logic virus through the backdoor and terminate them all. As far as whether the machines ever knew the fate of humanity, I'm not entirely sure. If I had to guess, I would say that Adam and Eve did know, and didn't want to tell the androids, so that they (Adam in particular) could test the androids' human-like 'hatred' and combat prowess without having to worry about them losing their morale to fight should they find out the truth. Adam specifically uses humanity often to anger 9S and 2B into combat, which he clearly revels in. That's my take on it anyways.

[mnb]

Originally posted by lessthanoff:

Originally posted by Eclipse:

So YoRHa were created by machine network?If this is the case why Adam and Eve had no knowledge of humanity extinction and wanted to lure it to the Earth,but even bunker commander had?In my opinion they were created by moon base androids,but between the endings b and c (eve fight) machine network somehow hacked bunker backdoor (or even moon base) got all s and ss-class documents and used logic virus. At least this makes sense.

YoRHa was apparently created by earlier androids left by the extinct humans, headed by an android called Zinnia, as was the plan to fabricate humanity's escape and survival on the moon in order to bolster morale. But it's heavily implied that one of the original YoRHa units, no.9 (probably the original scanner type model that would become 9S), was infected by the machine network and created the backdoor into the 13th bunker (the only one we ever see, and also the one apparently linking all other YoRHa satellites to the android network, which is how it spread to all units). The concert readings that go over this don't go into too much detail, but I'm assuming the machine network infiltrated no.9 and prompted him to "alter" Project YoRHa, unbenownst to command, so that once the network gathered enough data from YoRHa to create Adam and Eve, they would send the logic virus through the backdoor and terminate them all. As far as whether the machines ever knew the fate of humanity, I'm not entirely sure. If I had to guess, I would say that Adam and Eve did know, and didn't want to tell the androids, so that they (Adam in particular) could test the androids' human-like 'hatred' and combat prowess without having to worry about them losing their morale to fight should they find out the truth. Adam specifically uses humanity often to anger 9S and 2B into combat, which he clearly revels in. That's my take on it anyways.

No.9 wasn't infected by anyone - he just got mad when he discovered that YoRHa units were made to be disposable, and that they were "lesser" than normal androids. Also, android network data wasn't used to create Adam and Eve.

Also, there is no one in the moonbase (it's all automated), and any android command, if it ever existed, is gone.

The other "bunkers" are unrelated to the project.

As about if machines knew about the fate of humanity:

- N2 ("Red Girls") knew
- Adam knew (according to the game novellization, he realizes it some time after fighting 2B and 9S near the aliens mothership and before Copied City)
- other machines knew nothing

[Neriah]

I'm afraid that expounding too much on why things have wound up the way they have would give away a ton of the Part C storyline. What you need to do is go through and be sure to read the archives as you collect them, particularly the ones after the C ending.

Both the machines and the androids were programmed with the specific objective to "Defeat the enemy." But in order to maintain this objective, the machines realized that they couldn't defeat their enemy completely. Or else they would no longer have any reason to exist. This is why you have the oddball machine life forms like Pascal and the Forest King.

What happened after Project Gestalt failed is kind of touched on in the archives as well but you might have better luck piecing that together by reading the Wiki pages.

[mnb]

Only machines had that directive, androids didn't :P

(and he already went through route C, look at his achievements)

[Neriah]

Originally posted by mnb:

Only machines had that directive, androids didn't :P

(and he already went through route C, look at his achievements)

Aw. You're right.

[lessthanoff]

Originally posted by mnb:

Originally posted by lessthanoff:

YoRHa was apparently created by earlier androids left by the extinct humans, headed by an android called Zinnia, as was the plan to fabricate humanity's escape and survival on the moon in order to bolster morale. But it's heavily implied that one of the original YoRHa units, no.9 (probably the original scanner type model that would become 9S), was infected by the machine network and created the backdoor into the 13th bunker (the only one we ever see, and also the one apparently linking all other YoRHa satellites to the android network, which is how it spread to all units). The concert readings that go over this don't go into too much detail, but I'm assuming the machine network infiltrated no.9 and prompted him to "alter" Project YoRHa, unbenownst to command, so that once the network gathered enough data from YoRHa to create Adam and Eve, they would send the logic virus through the backdoor and terminate them all. As far as whether the machines ever knew the fate of humanity, I'm not entirely sure. If I had to guess, I would say that Adam and Eve did know, and didn't want to tell the androids, so that they (Adam in particular) could test the androids' human-like 'hatred' and combat prowess without having to worry about them losing their morale to fight should they find out the truth. Adam specifically uses humanity often to anger 9S and 2B into combat, which he clearly revels in. That's my take on it anyways.

No.9 wasn't infected by anyone - he just got mad when he discovered that YoRHa units were made to be disposable, and that they were "lesser" than normal androids. Also, android network data wasn't used to create Adam and Eve.

Also, there is no one in the moonbase (it's all automated), and any android command, if it ever existed, is gone.

The other "bunkers" are unrelated to the project.

As about if machines knew about the fate of humanity:

- N2 ("Red Girls") knew
- Adam knew (according to the game novellization, he realizes it some time after fighting 2B and 9S near the aliens mothership and before Copied City)
- other machines knew nothing

So, I'm confused then. If the machines had no part in influencing no.9 to open up the backdoor into the bunker, then...how did they know to attack through the backdoor when a "specific time/certain conditions" were met? How did no.9 know that the machines would send a virus through the backdoor to infectYoRHa? Just because he created a backdoor, and declared that the machines will use it under specific conditions, doesn't mean that they will. They'd have to actually know about it first, and they'd have to (for some reason) want to follow his plan to the letter and only unleash the virus at the exact moment he wanted them to. Did he...trick them into doing it somehow? Or did he have some kind of deal with them? I kind of feel like him being infiltrated is the only thing that makes any sense. Unless I missed something huge.

[lessthanoff]

Further on that point, no.9 didn't know anything about the machine network, or what it planned/would plan to do with YoRHa. The only thing he figured out was that the YoRHa androids were created using machine cores and that humanity's existence was fabricated to give androids a reason to fight.

So, on its own (without any machine network influence) his plan is complete nonsense. He got mad and created a backdoor inside the bunker and just hoped that the machines would find it? (Why?) He also made it so the machines would do it under "certain conditions/specific time" (Again, why?) -- and these were apparently conditions that just so happened to align with the machine network's plans, despite him knowing nothing about them -- and he just hoped that the machines would be like "yeah, I don't know who did this, or why, but let's totally just go along with this plan for some reason."

Again, I feel like I'm probably missing something here, but doesn't it make a lot more sense to say the machine network infiltrated one of the newer android models, which had access to the bunker's server and moon server, in order to initiate a plan that would be completely in its benefit vs. saying that an android got really mad and came up with a nonsensical plan that, by pure coincidence, just so happened to fit perfectly into the plan of the machine network?

[mnb]

Originally posted by lessthanoff:

Further on that point, no.9 didn't know anything about the machine network, or what it planned/would plan to do with YoRHa. The only thing he figured out was that the YoRHa androids were created using machine cores and that humanity's existence was fabricated to give androids a reason to fight.

So, on its own (without any machine network influence) his plan is complete nonsense. He got mad and created a backdoor inside the bunker and just hoped that the machines would find it? (Why?) He also made it so the machines would do it under "certain conditions/specific time" (Again, why?) -- and these were apparently conditions that just so happened to align with the machine network's plans, despite him knowing nothing about them -- and he just hoped that the machines would be like "yeah, I don't know who did this, or why, but let's totally just go along with this plan for some reason."

Again, I feel like I'm probably missing something here, but doesn't it make a lot more sense to say the machine network infiltrated one of the newer android models, which had access to the bunker's server and moon server, in order to initiate a plan that would be completely in its benefit vs. saying that an android got really mad and came up with a nonsensical plan that, by pure coincidence, just so happened to fit perfectly into the plan of the machine network?

Thing is - machine network didn't knew about YoRHa yet. In the YoRHa stage play (which Automata is a direct sequel to) N2 (aka machine network) tells A2 that they recently learned YoRHa secret when they broke into their servers. They couldn't influence No. 9 - they simply hadn't had the access yet.

In the story about YoRHa creation, No. 9 doesn't say when the backdoor opens - he just says that he made a timed backdoor for machines to find (which they did - and they would almost 100% do so at some point, during the 9000+ years long war they most likely broke into androids servers quite often). We don't know if the backdoor opened ideally during androids all-out assault - that's only when machines used the logic virus, but seeing how you can already see N2 in the bunker during B, and they also appear in the bunker during the stage play, which is the first time when switch to a newer generation of models happen, it was most likely open long before the virus attacked.

[lessthanoff]

Originally posted by mnb:

Originally posted by lessthanoff:

Further on that point, no.9 didn't know anything about the machine network, or what it planned/would plan to do with YoRHa. The only thing he figured out was that the YoRHa androids were created using machine cores and that humanity's existence was fabricated to give androids a reason to fight.

So, on its own (without any machine network influence) his plan is complete nonsense. He got mad and created a backdoor inside the bunker and just hoped that the machines would find it? (Why?) He also made it so the machines would do it under "certain conditions/specific time" (Again, why?) -- and these were apparently conditions that just so happened to align with the machine network's plans, despite him knowing nothing about them -- and he just hoped that the machines would be like "yeah, I don't know who did this, or why, but let's totally just go along with this plan for some reason."

Again, I feel like I'm probably missing something here, but doesn't it make a lot more sense to say the machine network infiltrated one of the newer android models, which had access to the bunker's server and moon server, in order to initiate a plan that would be completely in its benefit vs. saying that an android got really mad and came up with a nonsensical plan that, by pure coincidence, just so happened to fit perfectly into the plan of the machine network?

Thing is - machine network didn't knew about YoRHa yet. In the YoRHa stage play (which Automata is a sequel to) N2 (aka machine network) tells A2 that they recently learned YoRHa secret when they broke into their servers. They couldn't influence No. 9 - they simply hadn't had the access yet.

In the story about YoRHa creation, No. 9 doesn't say when the backdoor opens - he just says that he made a timed backdoor for machines to find (which they did). We don't know if the backdoor opened ideally during androids all-out assault - that's only when machines used the logic virus, but seeing how you can already see N2 in the bunker during B (and they also appear in the bunker during the stage play, which is the first time when switch to a newer generation of models happen), it was most likely open long before the virus attacked.

I guess it's also possible that the machine network found the backdoor a while ago and only wanted to infiltrate with the logic virus when they were done using YoRHa (and when they thought YoRHa was becoming too great a threat, seeing as how they destroyed Adam and Eve and were commencing an all-out invasion). I think I originally thought that their plan and no.9's plan were one in the same, but I hadn't considered that it's also likely that no.9 had some crazy whacked out plan of "creating god on the face of the moon" and N2 just decided to use the backdoor for their own purposes.

[Eclipse]

So machine network used a backdoor created by a traitor (no.9)?This makes sense at least.In this case android command expected to get rid of YORHA after all out attack,but with the traitors help machine network made its move first.

[mnb]

Originally posted by Eclipse:

So machine network used a backdoor created by a traitor (no.9)?This makes sense at least.In this case android command expected to get rid of YORHA after all out attack,but with the traitors help machine network made its move first.

Kind of. Two things:

First off, I wouldn't really call No. 9 a traitor - he didn't want machines to win the war or anything (he didn't really care about the war - just wanted to create a "god worth fighting for for androids). It was just his twisted way of perfecting the YoRHa project - Zinnia had a problem with thinking of a way to dispose of YoRHa after the project is done.

Second - "command on the moon" didn't want to get rid of YoRHa after the all-out attack. That's because there is no android command on the moon. It doesn't exist, and people responsible for YoRHa creation died (most likely when No. 9 set fire to the base where tests were taking place). The whole project gets executed automatically, with pods being the supervisors (fun fact: Pod 042 personality data was based on Zinnia, YoRHa creator).

[Eclipse]

Originally posted by mnb:

Originally posted by Eclipse:

So machine network used a backdoor created by a traitor (no.9)?This makes sense at least.In this case android command expected to get rid of YORHA after all out attack,but with the traitors help machine network made its move first.

Kind of. Two things:

First off, I wouldn't really call No. 9 a traitor - he didn't want machines to win the war or anything (he didn't really care about the war - just wanted to create a "god worth fighting for for androids). It was just his twisted way of perfecting the YoRHa project - Zinnia had a problem with thinking of a way to dispose of YoRHa after the project is done.

Second - "command on the moon" didn't want to get rid of YoRHa after the all-out attack. That's because there is no android command on the moon. It doesn't exist, and people responsible for YoRHa creation died (most likely when No. 9 set fire to the base where tests were taking place). The whole project gets executed automatically, with pods being the supervisors (fun fact: Pod 042 personality data was based on Zinnia, YoRHa creator).

But if this is the case,then after ending E no one will hunt down 2B,2A and 9S?Because no real command exist and no one cares about YORHA destruction?So it is only due to machine network actions and bad luck almost all YORHA were destroyed,and no one would even try to destroy them?

[mnb]

Yeah, they most likely won't be hunted by no one.