NieR:Automata™

NieR:Automata™

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Brad Apr 6, 2017 @ 10:09am
Story Questions (spoilers obviously)
I loved this game, but I didn't like the way the story went toward the end. I think it became a little nonsensical and left a lot of loose ends. Hopefully you can help me understand a few things.

1. Why was Emil inside a machine's head, and why do all the robots have heads that just happen to be the perfect size for Emil?

2. Why did the machines launch an ark to another planet? They already control Earth (which is perfectly fertile and livable) and have the technology to repopulate it. This mostly bothers me because the machine's ultimate goal of launching the ark seems to have nothing to do with the rest of the plot.

3. Why were Adam and Eve randomly born in the desert when later we learn that their purpose is to be carried on the ark? Why did they say they wanted to dissect the humans on the moon when the machine intelligence knows that humans are extinct? Why are they so evil when we first meet them, but are friendly towards 9S when he finds them in the ark later on?
Last edited by Brad; Apr 6, 2017 @ 10:13am
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Showing 1-14 of 14 comments
John Madden Apr 6, 2017 @ 10:15am 
Its all very ambiguos which i dont mind there isnt really much point to ask "why" in a Taro game

As far as
2. goes i believe they chose Mars because its a formerly unsettled planet, after realizing that all this time they have been emulating humans they might feel like this will help them get out of that since there wont be any human landmarks/relics to remind them. And at the same time they can get out of the eternal war with the androids and evolve in a different manner
Last edited by John Madden; Apr 6, 2017 @ 10:17am
Bombast Apr 6, 2017 @ 10:16am 
Originally posted by Bradalf:
1. Why was Emil inside a machine's head, and why do all the robots have heads that just happen to be the perfect size for Emil?

Why Emil is in there is never clarified. As for why the machines have Emil like heads, it's never outright stated, but there's a hint at why (maybe) post game. What follows is a spoiler for the lvl 99 bonus fights.

Emil took the aliens on by himself and tore them a new ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, seemingly prior to the creation of the machines. While he's ultimately unable to stop them, it's possible that his heavy resistance left a bit of a mark on the aliens, who modeled their army partially after him.

Alternatively, the creator of the games just really likes spherical heads.

2. Why did the machines launch an ark to another planet? They already control Earth (which is perfectly fertile and livable) and have the technology to repopulate it. This mostly bothers me because the machine's ultimate goal of launching the ark seems to have nothing to do with the rest of the plot.

They don't want to fight anymore, and they'd rather risk flying through space then obliterating the Androids and living in the ruins.

3. Why were Adam and Eve randomly born in the desert? Why did they say they wanted to dissect the humans on the moon when the machine intelligence knows that humans are extinct? Why are they so evil when we first meet them, but are friendly towards 9S when he finds them in the ark later on?

They weren't 'randomly' born. Adam and Eve were programs prior to being born as machine/androids. They're spawning when the character is there is either in response to the character, or contrived coincidence, which is a pretty wide spread narrative device and it seems silly to pick on this game for it.

The machine intelligence did not know humanity was dead at the start of the game. They learned it during the events of the game.

They aren't evil, they're just enjoying the fight a bit much. They're nice to you at the end of the game because they're done - They don't want to fight anymore. They've had enough, and they're not interested in blaming anyone for anything.
Last edited by Bombast; Apr 6, 2017 @ 10:17am
Brad Apr 6, 2017 @ 10:33am 
I just don't buy that the Adam/Eve/the machine leader suddenly decide that they are done fighting at this arbitrary point in the story. The machine leader seems to thrive off of gaining knowledge through combat with the androids, and you said yourself that Adam and Eve enjoy the fight. The sudden unprompted change of heart doesn't seem right to me.

As far as them appearing in the desert, yes, it makes sense for the narrative to introduce them, but it doesn't make sense for them to appear in that way. Sure, they may have been programs before their birth, but that still doesn't explain why they would appear in the desert when their purpose is to be launched to another planet. I don't see a reason why they wouldn't just be born and kept in the tower as they seemingly are for their second appearance. Their presence in the first half of the game was inconsequential to their ultimate goal.

Also, I think you may be incorrect about the machines learning of humanity's extinction during the game. The cycle of destroying the androids has been continuing for centuries, and the machines were the ones allowing the androids to return each time. It doesn't make sense for the machines not to know. Can you point me to why you think they learned this mid-game?
Last edited by Brad; Apr 6, 2017 @ 10:41am
Bombast Apr 6, 2017 @ 10:43am 
Originally posted by Bradalf:
I just don't buy that the Adam/Eve/the machine leader suddenly decide that they are done fighting at this arbitrary point in the story. The machine leader seems to thrive off of gaining knowledge through combat with the androids, and you said yourself that Adam and Eve enjoy the fight. The sudden unprompted change of heart doesn't seem right to me.

They reach the end of the fight and they give up. They just don't have it in them to go the distance. There's nothing left to learn and there's nothing left to win - They finally see the fighting for what it is, pointless, and they're just done.

The player characters do the same, in a way - 9S abandons the fight for humanity, and even for 'revenge,' giving way to blind rage. And A2 just accepts that the world isn't the ♥♥♥♥ show she thought it was and accepts death (Until ending E).

As far as them appearing in the desert, yes, it makes sense for the narrative to introduce them, but it doesn't make sense for them to appear in that way. Sure, they may have been programs before their birth, but that still doesn't explain why they would appear in the desert when their purpose is to be launched to another planet. Their presence in the first half of the game was inconsequential to their ultimate goal.

They're goal wasn't to launch to another planet at that point of the game. You need to stop looking at this game like everyone's plans and actions are all to a single goal - Everyone's priorities change at a point in the game, as they learn more.

Also, I think you may be incorrect about the machines learning of humanity's extinction during the game. The cycle of destroying the androids has been continuing for centuries, and the machines were the ones allowing the androids to return each time. It doesn't make sense for the machines not to know. Can you point me to why you think they learned this mid-game?

They learn about it during the game. That's why they go from 'Let's go interrogate some humans' to 'Humans are dead, lol.' If you can't accept that, then yes, the story is nonsensical ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, and no amount of reasoning is going to save it.
Brad Apr 6, 2017 @ 11:02am 
I'm just saying, all you've been able to provide is the assumption that machines MUST have grown tired of the fight, and that they MUST have learned about humanity's extinction during the game. There is nothing to support either of those claims aside from your own conjecture, but there IS evidence to the contrary.

Also, why would their names be Adam and Eve if their plan wasn't always to start a new population? I mean, they built a giant space cannon and an ark to fire out of it. Surely THAT didn't happen during the game's events.

This is a very ambitious and complex game. I think it is fair to suggest that maybe you should be open to the idea of plot holes, as well.
Last edited by Brad; Apr 6, 2017 @ 11:05am
Bombast Apr 6, 2017 @ 11:19am 
Originally posted by Bradalf:
I'm just saying, all you've been able to provide is the assumption that machines MUST have grown tired of the fight, and that they MUST have learned about humanity's extinction during the game.

And all you've done is say 'nu hu, it doesn't make sense.'

If you don't believe that they were being honest throughout the game, and didn't change mid game, there's only one possible other option - They lied throughout the game and what happened at the end was their plan. And that's it. There's really nothing else to say or theorize and explain. They lied.

I'm not sure what possible other answer there could be. Either they were honest and their motives changed as their knowledge expanded, or they lied from the start, were ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ you around from the beginning for a laugh, and there's really nothing to discuss.

There is nothing to support either of those claims aside from your own conjecture, but there IS evidence to the contrary.

Actually, the evidence is what happens. The characters tell you what they want, then the game shows you how they discovered that was impossible (The files they find while hacking android systems), and then the characters tell you what their doing now that their knowledge base has changed.

Your assumption seems to be that the characters are lying to you. In which case, I can firmly tell you that the game has no answers for you. No archives, no secret scenes, nothing. Just the lies that are told by the enemy for 40+ hours.

Also, why would their names be Adam and Eve if their plan wasn't always to start a new population? I mean, they build a giant space cannon and an ark to fire out of it.

Because much like Western media is obsessed with pagan mythology and Asian aesthetics (And food these days), Japanese media is obsessed with Christian Symbolism and European mythology. It's why there's so many Japanese vampire stories and SS cosplayers and all that weird stuff.

Adam and Eve were sub-programs made to control and manage the machine network that gained a more 'perfect' image of humanity than most machines due to their supervisory role. They're named Adam and Eve because their the first close thing to humans the machine network has (Besides the Network itself). Just because their named after biblical figures doesn't mean they're going to perfectly emulate those characters, unless you think Marx frequently wrote papers in favor of socialism.
Brad Apr 6, 2017 @ 11:40am 
I haven't just said "nu hu", I've stated that there is no dialogue showing that Adam/Eve/the machine leader had that change of heart. Their decision is sudden and flies in the face of their previous actions. Can you honestly fault me for thinking that's a little strange? Even if you are correct, an explanation for their new outlook is something the story needed.

I've also stated that the machines couldn't have been ignorant of humanity's extinction because they are singularly responsible for the android's cycle. I don't think it's fair to ignore that.

I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that the machines are lying to the main characters considering the android's continued existence is one big conspiracy to benefit the machines. It may also just be a plot hole.

What I do think is unreasonable to assume is that Adam and Eve were not named based on their ultimate purpose. Isn't it a pretty big coincidence that right after their birth, this ark-firing-space-cannon comes out of the ground and they end up on it? There is no way the machines thought of that idea during the game - it is such a huge undertaking.
Last edited by Brad; Apr 6, 2017 @ 6:20pm
Cliiyo Apr 6, 2017 @ 2:38pm 
Originally posted by Bradalf:
I've also stated that the machines couldn't have been ignorant of humanity's extinction because they are singularly responsible for the android's cycle.

The androids existed and had a system set up for Project Gestalt before the aliens were a factor at all. The machines had nothing to do with the YoRHa being created and the whole moon ruse. There's dialogue with Adam in the second fight with him talking about wanting to learn more about the humans but he can't because he can't get to them, as far as they knew at that point humans still existed. The machines seem to learn about all of it when the backdoor to the bunker was opened, which also wasn't something they planned they just took advantage of which the group that created YoRHa planned.

There's more information about the original group of androids in the first game and supplemental stuff and backstory for the first game in a book and audio CDs. You only see enough information in this game to tie it back to the first one but not necessarily explain the whole development of what happened leading up to the Gestalt/Replicant stuff. That project had the original androids created to manage it.

As for the ark that did seem to come about very quickly but Adam and Eve rapidly caused the machines as a whole to change throughout the game, maybe unrealistically quickly. But that makes a better video game than saying it took hundreds of years and trying to play through that.
iemander Apr 6, 2017 @ 3:05pm 
Both of you are wrong and both of you are right.

There is simply a lot of ambiguity to the story. Many things are not explained that well, I'm sure there are even things that were meant to be explained but they've gone through the budget, etc.
Yoko Taro says he loves leaving certain aspects open ended in order to to respect our intelligence, let our imagination run wild and reach our own conclusions. So don't sweat it too much.
Lavian Apr 6, 2017 @ 7:12pm 
Originally posted by Huemaster:
Yoko Taro says he loves leaving certain aspects open ended in order to to respect our intelligence, let our imagination run wild and reach our own conclusions. So don't sweat it too much.
He's also not exactly super consistent (see his comments about the Drag-on Dragoon:Shi ni Itaru Aka manga), so I wouldn't stress about the details since they just don't make sense sometimes.

Ending E is supposed to be initiated when all Black Boxes go dark, but if you pick it from chapter select, it has a cutscene from Ending C, in which 9S presumably survives. This is not to mention the YoRHa units in the desert, and other scanner models such as 4S.


At the end of the YoRHa stage play, the Commander wonders if the destruction of YoRHa generations (A2's squad) is really necessary to iterate and evolve (creating 2B and 9S's generation), and if that is the inevitable goal of humanity, as if she believes that humanity still exists. She doesn't have any illusions about the state of humanity in NieR:Automata.

Furthermore, the Machines have been rooting around in the YoRHa servers since at least the YoRHa stage play (that is, the assault that A2 was part of). For whatever reason they don't destroy the Bunker until route C/D of NieR:Automata.

The reason that A2 knows that she was betrayed by Command is because the machines specifically lay it out for her, telling her that her mission was doomed from the start, and every single one of their "failures" and deaths was planned by Command. The mission was actually a failure in that A2 wasn't supposed to survive (or any of the resistance members she met for that matter). The machines actually specifically shut down the warning signal in the Bunker to keep Command from knowing that A2 has not been destroyed at the time.


Still, the machines decide to decimate the current YoRHa generation at the start of route C/D and then subsequently lose interest in fighting altogether despite the fact that they believe that their reason for living is fighting the androids, so much so that the specifically sabotage themselves so they can never fully eliminate androids.


So yeah...
Last edited by Lavian; Apr 7, 2017 @ 2:49am
Null_User Apr 6, 2017 @ 7:22pm 
The why of the why is because the creators are humans and we shouldn't expect such a big story to not have plot holes or inconsistencies. Whenever someone makes a story, plot holes, inconsistencies and things that "aint right" will inevitably pop up as more people gets involved on them. So in the end, take the story as it is, reach your own ends for those non consistent parts and plot holes if you want, then move on.
iemander Apr 7, 2017 @ 1:18am 
Indeed, I mean, if we're really looking for holes. Someone needs to explain to me how it's possible this world invasion and the root of all machine lifeforms is situated whithin 5 square miles (if that). You would think a "network" would be something globally.
Lightingsworth Apr 7, 2017 @ 3:16am 
Thing that grated me a bit was that they claimed that 2B was infact 2E. Because literally every time she off'd 9S, he outright told her to.
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Date Posted: Apr 6, 2017 @ 10:09am
Posts: 14