All these tutorial deaths...

[Pigeon Daddy]

Seriously? This game's... really quite easy. Some of the sub quests are difficult if you're not the right level, but that's about it. The combat is fluid and simple, easy to understand. How the hell are you dying on the tutorial?

[Butts McGee]

The first boss has an instant kill attack on all difficulties that can only be avoided by chain-dodging.

You are never told that you can chain dodges. Some folks intuit that.

Other folks, like me, assumed dodging was a "heavy" action. You dodge, then there's a cooldown before you're allowed to dodge again - a punishment if you dodged poorly.

Since the attack instantly kills you, and sends you back to the start and requires you to replay the first 20 minutes of unrelated schmup action, you never get two chances in a row to figure how the dodging mechanics work.

Only my 6th attempt in the midst of frustration did I start manically mashing the dodge button trying to avoid the instant-death swing. And was SHOCKED when I double-dodged through it and survived.

[Pigeon Daddy]

I just spammed dodge, hoping it would work, and it did. I didn't intuit that. I just tried it, and it worked. Also, you can jump over that attack. Something else I learned very quickly.

[PoutineQuebecoise]

Finished the game, still no clue what this instakill attack is. Did go back to factory later on and took advantage of the near-infinite amount of bodies however. Free chips, yo!

[Pigeon Daddy]

İlk olarak TheCatWhisperer tarafından gönderildi:

Finished the game, still no clue what this instakill attack is. Did go back to factory later on and took advantage of the near-infinite amount of bodies however. Free chips, yo!

Well it isn't an insta-kill. It's his side-to-side attack. It can chain you. But can be dodged mid-chain as well.

[Butts McGee]

Jumping was my second attempt - it knicked me in the toe and I instantly died.

Since the penalty for failure is being forced to replay the intro sequence, I didn't want to try jumping over it again in case it's not supposed to be possible.

But yes, you did intuit that you can chain-dodge. You mashed the button and it worked as expected.

I assumed dodging was a heavy action - after a dodge, my first priority is getting my bearings and preparing to counter-attack or side-step any follow-up attacks. I don't mash buttons in my games, every stroke is deliberate.

Mashing the light/heavy attack buttons, for example, is a great way to get yourself locked into an unneeded attack animation and whacked in the back of the head. Which sounds good - punishment for just mashing buttons without finesse.

I'm glad it made sense to you, but I hope you can understand why the concept of chain-dodging doesn't seem inutitive to everyone now.

[Pigeon Daddy]

I didn't mash EXPECTING it to work. I mashed HOPING it would work. That's not intuition. I was like, "oh, ♥♥♥♥, he's still going. KEEP PRESSING R2 AND HOPE FOR THE BEST". The game doesn't hold your hand, but it also is easy as ♥♥♥♥ to dodge just about everything.

[PoutineQuebecoise]

İlk olarak A Gay Stoned Cat tarafından gönderildi:

...

Picked the wrong game to be deliberate, I'm afraid. Much like the enemies will spam bullets, you spam attacks to counter the bullets, if you happen to kill said enemy because you got ranged attack chip that's even better.

[Butts McGee]

It definitely is easy to dodge everything since you're allowed to chain dodge and gives you an incredible amount of invunerability frames.

But mashing any button is strictly a no-no for me right off the bat. I've played enough fighting games to know that button mashing is a great way to get yourself killed.

Nier didn't make it clear that you can mash the dodge button safely, much less that it's a requirement to survive. Nothing tells you that, and the first lesson that teaches you this mechanic is brutally unforgiving, requiring you to replay the entire +20 minute intro if you fail to intuit that.

[JohnTravoltage]

İlk olarak A Gay Stoned Cat tarafından gönderildi:

It definitely is easy to dodge everything since you're allowed to chain dodge and gives you an incredible amount of invunerability frames.

But mashing any button is strictly a no-no for me right off the bat. I've played enough fighting games to know that button mashing is a great way to get yourself killed.

Nier didn't make it clear that you can mash the dodge button safely, much less that it's a requirement to survive. Nothing tells you that, and the first lesson that teaches you this mechanic is brutally unforgiving, requiring you to replay the entire +20 minute intro if you fail to intuit that.

You don't need to mash it, you can maintain your invuln frames by pressing it with the right timing. it isn't so strict that you need to mash it. I still think that you shouldn't be able to just repeat it and basically be invincible, but its faster to kill enemies if you only dodge when you are going to be hit, so for style/speedruns it does negatively affect you. Atleast its better than in the first nier where you can just hold block and block basically everything.

Also, what attack are you guys talking about? you haven't done a very good description.

I don't remember any attack that you had to repeatedly dodge through or jump over. If you are talking about the attacks where the boss sweeps the rotating things horizontally, you can just run around it if you get the pattern right.

[Butts McGee]

Tried running around it in my first attempt. The arm (not the saw) bonked me in the head and sent me back to the title screen.

Because of the penalty for failure, I was hesitant to try that again.

[Null_User]

When I started this game, I came in thinking "well, It's a Platinum Games work, so stuff must be fast and furious in here." I was actually expecting a more Bayonetta style finish to the bosses, but ehh.. I gladly didn't get chained in that attack as I did press the button a few times at first, to see how it reacted, then kept pressing it as soon as I noted it could be spammed and NEEDED to be spammed.

Though I do agree that punishing the player into having to do ALL of it is a little extreme. And with the game telling you beforehand that auto save was not allowed and that you had to use save spots (later known to be large areas instead of just a spot you have to run to and save at) would make some people refund, believing the game would be such an annoying chore after the intro. Because intros are supposed to tell you how the rest of the game is, right?

[JohnTravoltage]

İlk olarak A Gay Stoned Cat tarafından gönderildi:

Tried running around it in my first attempt. The arm (not the saw) bonked me in the head and sent me back to the title screen.

Because of the penalty for failure, I was hesitant to try that again.

Okay, I just checked by watching a vid of someone playing the boss, and they do walk under it.

there are 2 attacks like that, one where they just move down, and the other where they move down and also sweep side to side. The side to side one you can walk under the arm of one. The one where they don't move side to side you just walk kind of through the middle in a gap.

https://youtu.be/kvvIi6uqJbM?t=1682

That said, I only think I remember one where the arms don't move side to side. But I do know I did manage to run through the middle between the spinning parts, not around the edge.

[PoutineQuebecoise]

Ohh that guy? Stick to the left side and just avoid the incoming one. Hella easy.

[Pigeon Daddy]

İlk olarak John Travoltage tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak A Gay Stoned Cat tarafından gönderildi:

Tried running around it in my first attempt. The arm (not the saw) bonked me in the head and sent me back to the title screen.

Because of the penalty for failure, I was hesitant to try that again.

Okay, I just checked by watching a vid of someone playing the boss, and they do walk under it.

there are 2 attacks like that, one where they just move down, and the other where they move down and also sweep side to side. The side to side one you can walk under the arm of one. The one where they don't move side to side you just walk kind of through the middle in a gap.

https://youtu.be/kvvIi6uqJbM?t=1682

That said, I only think I remember one where the arms don't move side to side. But I do know I did manage to run through the middle between the spinning parts, not around the edge.

You can indeed just walk/run between the vertical saws.

[00]

Ppl keep getting worse at playing games it seems