So people really prefer console DRM over Denuvo?

[iemander]

Just wondering why suddenly locking game sales to hardware is acceptable? Do people really want Nvidia, AMD, Intel exclusives just like Oculus?

They will be able to lock games to hardware revisions too like consoles. Next Nvidia hardware may mandate newer remastered versions of the same game etc.

Of course they will lock you into their custom OS and encrypt or complicate everything on a hardware level so piracy is impossible​, necessitating emulators to simulate hardware exactly, but really wanting DRM to go so far just because you don't like an online check seems stupid.

[A D L]

iemander님이 먼저 게시:

On PC I can still download and play the games I bought 10 years ago and run it on any system with any PS I want and there's nothing stopping me.

Not the ones using DRM such as Games For Windows Live and SecuROM you can't. Some games are broken and unplayable thanks to the DRM.

[iemander]

Alexander DeLarge님이 먼저 게시:

iemander님이 먼저 게시:

Viable to be played on a ps4 you mean? Which you will need or your games won't work. You don't know how long these systems are made to last.

Once Denuvo goes down, legitimately purchased copies of these games will never work

The physical console versions will always work and the only thing stopping me from playing those games is the hardware dying (which you'll be able to buy for $20 just like you can pick up a Playstation 2)

I'd much rather be in the situation of a console player than a PC player in this scenario.... And that's not even getting into the topic of emulation. PC players will be EMULATING games that have PC ports. That is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ insane. We shouldn't need to do that.

Yeah so you're still stuck with your PS2, that once it breaks down will have you needing to buy a new one that may or may not be still available somewhere.

Is that what youwant on PC too then? Games locked to hardware with physical media?

[A D L]

iemander님이 먼저 게시:

Is that what youwant on PC too then? Games locked to hardware with physical media?

Why would I want that? I just don't want Denuvo breaking the standards that make PC gaming great such as being able to play games 20 years into the future without issue.

You have as many games as I do, you know as well as I do that there are titles out there that are unplayable thanks to DRM so I don't see why you're defending it. We both know there's precedent for this being TERRIBLE for consumers, in this scenario, people are going to be using Playstation 4 hardware/emulators to play dozens of games that have PC ports.

I'd rather drink a bottle of piss than eat a plate of ♥♥♥♥ but that's only after being deprived of pleasant alternatives.

[iemander]

Alexander DeLarge님이 먼저 게시:

iemander님이 먼저 게시:

Is that what youwant on PC too then? Games locked to hardware with physical media?

Why would I want that?

Because that's the alternative that you're proposing as better.

Game developers will always want to protect their games. Physical media on consoles work because there's a hardware DRM gate that's very hard to crack. I'm sure PC can do the same thing as an alternative to simple software DRM.

But are you really thinking that's going to make life easier or more fair for PC gamers?

[A D L]

iemander님이 먼저 게시:

Because that's the alternative that you're proposing as better.

Game developers will always want to protect their games. Physical media on consoles work because there's a hardware DRM gate that's very hard to crack. I'm sure PC can do the same thing as an alternative to simple software DRM.

But are you really thinking that's going to make life easier for PC gamers?

I'm proposing that a playable game is better than an unplayable game. I think that's a pretty objective statement. DRM doesn't work. The pirates win in the long run and the customer loses in the long run.

I find it very difficult to defend it from the publisher's perspective considering it'll get cracked in 2 weeks and then the legitimate customers are the only ones dealing with it.

[iemander]

Alexander DeLarge님이 먼저 게시:

iemander님이 먼저 게시:

Because that's the alternative that you're proposing as better.

Game developers will always want to protect their games. Physical media on consoles work because there's a hardware DRM gate that's very hard to crack. I'm sure PC can do the same thing as an alternative to simple software DRM.

But are you really thinking that's going to make life easier for PC gamers?

I'm proposing that a playable game is better than an unplayable game. I think that's a pretty objective statement.

A game that is locked to a specific hardware revision will also always be playable. Does that make it better then?

[A D L]

iemander님이 먼저 게시:

Alexander DeLarge님이 먼저 게시:

I'm proposing that a playable game is better than an unplayable game. I think that's a pretty objective statement.

A game that is locked to a specific hardware revision will also always be playable. Does that make it better then?

Compared to a completely unplayable game? Sure, but you're asking me to choose between drinking a bottle of piss and eating a plate of ♥♥♥♥. Neither of those are ideal but I'll take the one that won't give me a bacterial infection at least.

Why are you asking me to choose between the lesser of two evils when there's an alternative that has worked well for consumers for 30+ years on PC? Don't shove DRM down our throats, make a good game and we'll buy it.

[Gokai Red]

Alexander DeLarge님이 먼저 게시:

At least I'll be able to play my console version in 10-20 years. Can you say the same for your uncracked PC copy? Most likely not.

dannyj54147님이 먼저 게시:

Street Fighter X Tekken still works.

GFWL shut down. Sure, you can get around it, but it's certainly not ideal (while the pirated copies work as they should)

Go look at the hundreds of unplayable GameSpy/SecuROM/TAGES DRM-using games.

I was just playing Operation Raccoon City, which uses GFWL. Online works fine too. I didn't need to crack or anything to play it. I hate DRM, but GFWL games aren't all unplayable.

[iemander]

Alexander DeLarge님이 먼저 게시:

iemander님이 먼저 게시:

A game that is locked to a specific hardware revision will also always be playable. Does that make it better then?

Compared to a completely unplayable game? Sure, but you're asking me to choose between drinking a bottle of piss and eating a plate of ♥♥♥♥. Neither of those are ideal but I'll take the one that won't give me a bacterial infection at least.

Why are you asking me to choose between the lesser of two evils when there's an alternative that has worked well for consumers for 30+ years on PC? Don't shove DRM down our throats, make a good game and we'll buy it.

Honestly ♥♥♥♥ that, I buy good money for my games. I don't want freeloaders to be able to do the same without paying for it.

I expect the developers to try to protect at least the value of my purchases.

This is like seeing some losers sneaking into the theatre without paying for it. I tend to accidentally shove my Coke down their collar when I see that.

But anyway, on the case of DRM. I hate hardware lock in. I have the freedom to choose what I want to play when, where and how I want. Vendor lock in like you suggest in your ps4 thread to fix Denuvo is hell for me and many people.

[iemander]

Also, don't forget you have your own opinion. I'm sure the boards would be far worse that the few Denuvo threads when the developers were to announce a vendor lockin to a hardware manufacturer on PC.

[A D L]

iemander님이 먼저 게시:

Honestly ♥♥♥♥ that, I buy good money for my games. I don't want freeloaders to be able to do the same without paying for it.

I expect the developers to try to protect at least the value of my purchases.

This is like seeing some losers sneaking into the theatre without paying for it. I tend to accidentally shove my Coke down their collar when I see that.

But anyway, on the case of DRM. I hate hardware lock in. I have the freedom to choose what I want to play when, where and how I want. Vendor lock in like you suggest in your ps4 thread to fix Denuvo is hell for me and many people.

In this scenario however, the freeloaders sneaking in are kicking you out of the theater.

You may have freedom to choose where and how you experience NieR Automata but when Denuvo becomes an issue for whatever reason? You'll be cracking the game just like the pirates did the week of release or you'll be resorting to PS4 hardware.

As I said, surely you've experienced this. You have more games than I do so I'm sure you've had to apply illegitimate cracks to play a legitimate game (or abandoned the idea altogether). I don't know why you're playing devil's advocate here.

[iemander]

Alexander DeLarge님이 먼저 게시:

iemander님이 먼저 게시:

Honestly ♥♥♥♥ that, I buy good money for my games. I don't want freeloaders to be able to do the same without paying for it.

I expect the developers to try to protect at least the value of my purchases.

This is like seeing some losers sneaking into the theatre without paying for it. I tend to accidentally shove my Coke down their collar when I see that.

But anyway, on the case of DRM. I hate hardware lock in. I have the freedom to choose what I want to play when, where and how I want. Vendor lock in like you suggest in your ps4 thread to fix Denuvo is hell for me and many people.

In this scenario however, the freeloaders sneaking in are kicking you out of the theater.

You're saying pirates are bullying us out of playing and paying for the games instead of pirating ourselves?

I'm sure the devs agree

[Lain Iwakura]

iemander님이 먼저 게시:

2B <<This cannot continue>>님이 먼저 게시:

... as a retro as well are current game collector this is completely not true.

If you do it illegally sure, but if that were really true we wouldn't be getting constant remasters of the same game like we do now.

On PC I can still download and play the games I bought 10 years ago and run it on any system with any PS I want and there's nothing stopping me.

Hardware can fail but its so cheap you can buy new hardware you can't buy new servers to make a game run if they no longer exist. I own literally every game console you can aside from the $600+ special edition Neo Geo consoles and there is nothing locking me out of playing those games other than having a copy of the game or not. Are some PS3 and Xbox 360 titles locked out to people if they are digital only? Of course they are but no physical copy of a game can be taken away from you unlike these Denuvo games.

[iemander]

2B <<This cannot continue>>님이 먼저 게시:

iemander님이 먼저 게시:

If you do it illegally sure, but if that were really true we wouldn't be getting constant remasters of the same game like we do now.

On PC I can still download and play the games I bought 10 years ago and run it on any system with any PS I want and there's nothing stopping me.

Hardware can fail but its so cheap you can buy new hardware you can't buy new servers to make a game run if they no longer exist. I own literally every game console you can aside from the $600+ special edition Neo Geo consoles and there is nothing locking me out of playing those games other than having a copy of the game or not. Are some PS3 and Xbox 360 titles locked out to people if they are digital only? Of course they are but no physical copy of a game can be taken away from you unlike these Denuvo games.

It's only cheap because now there's an over abundance of these consoles. But at some point they will all die, and by investing in a custom platform you've done, you've effectively locked yourself out.

And this discussion of will the console die yes or no is the exact same discussion as will Denuvo die yes or no. This is the wrong question, you need to DRM it anyway. The question is, do you DRM to a software solution on the internet or do you DRM the physical hardware.

The biggest difference between both is that the software solution is additive and doesn't work based on the principle of a walled garden. It can be added anywhere in any store on any hardware. While the hardware solution effectively locks you into using very specific hardware for it to work.

Theoretically the software solution is going to live on forever, as again it's hardware independant and can forever run. Locking into hardware is a different matter entirely and imo not a good one at all.

[iemander]

Alexander DeLarge님이 먼저 게시:

As I said, surely you've experienced this. You have more games than I do so I'm sure you've had to apply illegitimate cracks to play a legitimate game (or abandoned the idea altogether). I don't know why you're playing devil's advocate here.

Devil's advocate for Denuvo offering me a way to have DRM on a software level giving me the freedom to choose my hardware, setup and configuration so I'm not locked into a walled garden where a supplier is going to choose exactly how I want to play my games?

You seem to understand that DRM is a necessity, but you're encouraging an alternative that's absolutely horrid.