Why Denuvo will render your games unplayable (even with bypasses)

[A D L]

THIS IS THE OFFICIAL DENUVO THREAD. DO NOT POST ANY MORE, IF YOU HAVE TO, USE THE SEARCH FUNCTION AND POST IN SOMETHING THAT ALREADY EXISTS

Originally posted by Tito Shivan (Steam Moderator):

Unfortunately, when I was merging your two threads I botched it (accidents happen) and was left with no option but to remove it from view. Sorry for the inconvenience.

Feel free to keep discussing the subject on any of the already existing threads.

Before you read on, Let me ask you three questions.
1.) Do you think you'll be using Windows for the rest of your life?

2.) Do you believe that Denuvo's authentication servers (maintained by Sony) which allow you to play your games will remain up?

3.) Do you believe that Square Enix, Take Two, Konami (lol), Activision, Warner Brothers, Zenimax, Electronic Arts and Ubisoft will absolutely stay in business?

These three factors combined could be devastating to your ability to play anything that utilizes Denuvo.


EMULATION

Originally posted by http://whyisdenuvobad.github.io:

Denuvo stops games from supporting Linux or OS X. Not only do the publishers not release ports, but using Denuvo means third parties like the Wine project can't support them either. Games like Inside, the sequel to Limbo, are an example of Denuvo stopping Linux support. Limbo supported Linux and OS X, and Inside is built using Unity engine which can easily make Linux builds. But because they are using Denuvo, it can't be played on any other operating system. Another example is Doom 2016. The beta version worked great on Linux when used with Wine project. But the final release came encumbered with Denuvo, effectively stopping Wine from supporting the game on Linux and OS X.

DENUVO

Originally posted by http://whyisdenuvobad.github.io:

If at some point in the future any part of their DRM service chain is shut down due to internet outage or a company going bankrupt, games will be inaccessible. Some people reply "but surely these companies will provide a method access if they are shutting down servers!" If a company is in bankruptcy and there's an outcry to get patches out for 15 year old games, I doubt they're going to make it a priority to devote resources and development time to creating patches. It wouldn't be the first time a library of DRM-encumbered crapware went poof.

Given that Denuvo was created by the team behind SecuROM, a DRM solution that was abandoned after only five years, it's fair to say that the same could be done to Denuvo's servers. Alternatively, Denuvo could go down due to Sony's bankruptcy (which is possible since they're bleeding money and the only division of their company that makes any money anymore is Sony Interactive Entertainment which is entirely separate from Sony DADC DigitalWorks)

Let's just say that there's a reason why Sony Interactive Entertainment is legally separated from the main company.
https://www.technobuffalo.com/2014/01/02/sony-has-78-chance-to-go-bankrupt-in-two-years-says-macroaxis/
"The PlayStation Company: why Sony should ditch almost everything else"
http://www.theverge.com/2015/2/19/8068607/sony-should-focus-on-ps4

Also here's some articles about what a similar shutdown did to PC games (fortunately it was only an auth server and not DRM so users were able to tamper with the executable and get things working again). Sure, things like SecuROM and GameSpy got patched out in some cases, but not all, even by Electronic Arts.
http://www.pcgamer.com/reddit-compiles-terrifying-list-of-games-affected-by-gamespy-shutdown/
https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2014/04/08/gamespy-shutdown-list-borderlands-halo-battlefield/
http://www.pcgamer.com/ea-gamespy-shutdown-update/

"THE STUDIOS WILL PATCH IT OUT" ARGUMENT

I'll just use this forum interaction to make my point.

Originally posted by mroczna_sarna:

Alexander, can you elaborate me what is limitation of denuvo in Tales of Berseria, for example? Because I'm enjoying the game since D1 (it's one of my fav jRPG's released on steam so far) and I have no problems whatsoever. I can use all Kalaiden mods which enhance graphics quality etc. I can play it when offline. Please, enlight me, what is the problem, because I can't see any.

Originally posted by Alexander DeLarge:

Ask me in 10 years when Denuvo shuts down (which is incredibly likely considering the same people behind Denuvo developed SecuROM, which was abandoned after 5 years). I have games that are unplayable thanks to awful DRM practices that released less than 10 years ago.

It sucks and it was just two years ago that GameSpy's authentication server shut down, resulting in hundreds of games across PC and consoles being shut down. If it weren't for the auth server going down, we could play those games through LAN. Instead, people have to go through a ton of effort to create their own servers and spoof it. Something that wouldn't be possible with Denuvo mind you.

Originally posted by mroczna_sarna:

You can't compare those two, don't forget, behind all of this there is a Valve with steam as well, so I doubt there will be similar situation. And it's already proven (Doom) that denuvo can be easy removed from the game - so I'm not worried, TBH.

So inherently you want to leave Metal Gear Solid 5's future up to Konami? A company that left the gaming industry? What about NieR Automata and Square Enix, a company that almost went bankrupt several years ago thanks to the original Final Fantasy XIV, (not A Realm Reborn) tanking, the 10 years of Final Fantasy XV development running them dry and still is at financial risk due to the commercial failures of Just Cause 3, HITMAN 2016 and Deus Ex Mankind Divided along with that cancelled Sleeping Dogs MMO they were making?

What about THQ and Sierra and Interplay, companies that were at the top of the world back in the 1990s and early 2000s? If Denuvo were in any of their games and Denuvo shut down, customers would be begging whoever still owned the IPs to release Denuvo-free executables (which may not even exist at that point in time).

----------------------------------------

BUT WHAT ABOUT THOSE CRACKS I KEEP HEARING ABOUT?
Denuvo cracks do not remove Denuvo and I doubt they ever will. They're only "cracked enough" to play. Due to this, it restricts emulation through WINE/Parallels or anything that may release in the future which will be incredibly important if and when Windows gets abandoned as I believe people will at the first viable opportunity (which I find increasingly more likely now that Amazon is investing in Linux and Google is working on merging Android with ChromeOS)

RECIPE FOR DISASTER
I've always said that the year of the Linux desktop wouldn't happen until someone like Google or Amazon got involved.... And now they have. Combine the migration away from Windows, the volatility of developers/studios that may not have DRM-free copies of their games 20 years into the future along with Denuvo's shutdown which is reliant on whether or not Sony continues to spend money hosting those authentication servers with the restrictions that Denuvo imposes on emulation regardless of whether the game has been cracked and you have the ultimate recipe for disaster.

Who knows. Your quantum processor from the year of 2035 may not support Windows XP/7/8/10 so even if you wanted to dualboot, you'd be out of luck.

"LMAO WHO CARES ABOUT OLD GAMES"
Some people may treat their purchases as flavor of the month disposable products but many of us like to play our games decades after they were released.

Imagine a world where DOOM (1993 version) had something like Denuvo and the things I've detailed actually happened. Sure, you could dig out the Super Nintendo and play it, but you'd be playing the inferior version without the thousands of mods that exist for it. Imagine if a PC exclusive like Warcraft 3 was unplayable. Sounds like a nightmare.

Something to think about.

PROPOSED SOLUTION

Valve could impose a mandate on all future releases that requires developers/publishers to give them a DRM-free copy of their game to be released in the event of Denuvo's auth server going down or when the studio/publisher releasing their game goes bankrupt (in the interest of their customers who ultimately suffer) or Microsoft locks down their operating systems and the market share shifts away from Windows (in the interest of allowing us to emulate games that don't get official ports)

This would ultimately benefit Steam users as a whole because while Valve has measures in place for the day Steam goes down (not detailed, unknown how it works), every game released after the mandate would be protected and playable under any scenario that may occur.

[A D L]

Basically imagine if the Dark Souls PC port wasn't fixable by Durante and it ran at the same resolution/frame rate as the Xbox 360/PS3 versions. That's the scenario we're seeing with NieR Automata

[north]

Agreed. Just updating to version 1.03 and then continue with my quest in to the desert. Really good game and feels right on PS4 without denuvo

[Lain Iwakura]

Originally posted by north:

Agreed. Just updating to version 1.03 and then continue with my quest in to the desert. Really good game and feels right on PS4 without denuvo

♥♥♥♥ yes didn't know there was a patch this makes me happy being an owner of NieR on PS4 Pro. Maybe it'll fix the frame pacing issues.

[dannyj147]

You have an unhealthy obsession with Denuvo and seriously should seek help.

[shiro]

Look kids, an idiot.

[A D L]

Originally posted by dannyj54147:

You have an unhealthy obsession with Denuvo and seriously should seek help.

Sorry for wanting to be able to play my games in 10 years and be treated fairly (not to mention fix the blatant technical shortcomings such as resolution/frame rate locks). The legitimate customer loses in the long run with Denuvo and the pirate wins.

Originally posted by shiro:

Look kids, an idiot.

Easy to talk ♥♥♥♥ to people that care about the accessibility of their Steam library when you only have two game on Steam (which are Dota 2 and Path of Exile, free2play games)

[Vayne]

Oh look alexander delarge post about denuvo again. Denuvo is bad? Damn i should buy this game to support it then

[dannyj147]

Originally posted by Alexander DeLarge:

Originally posted by dannyj54147:

You have an unhealthy obsession with Denuvo and seriously should seek help.

Sorry for wanting to be able to play my games in 10 years and be treated fairly (not to mention fix the blatant technical shortcomings such as resolution/frame rate locks). The legitimate customer loses in the long run with Denuvo and the pirate wins.

Originally posted by shiro:

Look kids, an idiot.

Easy to talk ♥♥♥♥ to people that care about the accessibility of their Steam library when you only have two game on Steam (which are Dota 2 and Path of Exile, free2play games)

Don't you have games which use Denuvo anyway? Guess you don't really have that much of a problem with it if you are willing to purchase games which use it.

[north]

Originally posted by Alexander DeLarge:

The legitimate customer loses in the long run with Denuvo and the pirate wins.

Absolutely correct - every denuvo game worth playing that isn't an online multiplayer focused title has been cracked, with the except of a very few (Total Warhammer etc) so consumers are slapped with an unfair DRM that affects them in an adverse way and also jacks up the price. Denuvo is also proven to damage sales of a game with non-Denuvo titles selling 2x-3x+++ more copies.

With Denuvo everyone loses out except for the greedy money makers at Denuvo HQ.

[A D L]

Originally posted by dannyj54147:

Originally posted by Alexander DeLarge:

Sorry for wanting to be able to play my games in 10 years and be treated fairly (not to mention fix the blatant technical shortcomings such as resolution/frame rate locks). The legitimate customer loses in the long run with Denuvo and the pirate wins.


Easy to talk ♥♥♥♥ to people that care about the accessibility of their Steam library when you only have two game on Steam (which are Dota 2 and Path of Exile, free2play games)

Don't you have games which use Denuvo anyway? Guess you don't really have that much of a problem with it if you are willing to purchase games which use it.

I don't purchase Denuvo games. Well, actually one (Deus Ex Mankind Divided because the franchise continuing was more important than my anti-DRM sentiment). I build hundreds of PCs and I get Nvidia/AMD/Intel promotion codes.

I always get slammed for this. Should I have thrown away free games?

[Vayne]

Originally posted by north:

Originally posted by Alexander DeLarge:

The legitimate customer loses in the long run with Denuvo and the pirate wins.

Absolutely correct - every denuvo game worth playing that isn't an online multiplayer focused title has been cracked, with the except of a very few (Total Warhammer etc) so consumers are slapped with an unfair DRM that affects them in an adverse way and also jacks up the price. Denuvo is also proven to damage sales of a game with non-Denuvo titles selling 2x-3x+++ more copies.

With Denuvo everyone loses out except for the greedy money makers at Denuvo HQ.

Damage the sale? MGS V want to hv a word with u

[dannyj147]

Originally posted by Alexander DeLarge:

Originally posted by dannyj54147:

Don't you have games which use Denuvo anyway? Guess you don't really have that much of a problem with it if you are willing to purchase games which use it.

I don't purchase Denuvo games. Well, actually one (Deus Ex Mankind Divided because the franchise continuing was more important than my anti-DRM sentiment). I build hundreds of PCs and I get Nvidia/AMD/Intel promotion codes.

Should I have thrown away free games?

Rise of the Tomb Raider and MGSV uses Denuvo too you know.

[A D L]

Originally posted by Vayne:

Originally posted by north:

Absolutely correct - every denuvo game worth playing that isn't an online multiplayer focused title has been cracked, with the except of a very few (Total Warhammer etc) so consumers are slapped with an unfair DRM that affects them in an adverse way and also jacks up the price. Denuvo is also proven to damage sales of a game with non-Denuvo titles selling 2x-3x+++ more copies.

With Denuvo everyone loses out except for the greedy money makers at Denuvo HQ.

Damage the sale? MGS V want to hv a word with u

Yeah let's see what happens when Denuvo stops working. You expect Konami to release a patch?

[A D L]

Originally posted by dannyj54147:

Rise of the Tomb Raider and MGSV uses Denuvo too you know.

Both Nvidia promotions. Again, should I have thrown away free games?
http://www.geforce.com/games-applications/pc-games/metal-gear-solid-v-the-phantom-pain/bundle/code-instructions
http://www.geforce.com/games-applications/pc-games/rise-of-the-tomb-raider/bundle/code-instructions

[Vayne]

Originally posted by Alexander DeLarge:

Originally posted by Vayne:

Damage the sale? MGS V want to hv a word with u

Yeah let's see what happens when Denuvo stops working. You expect Konami to release a patch?

Thats the same like steam stops working. Denuvo aint go down as almost all big publisher use that :)