the truth about caller

[fushia magma shrimp]

Every article and video on the net says that you can spamm caller no matter what, and than one type of caller can just call one type of animal.
I've managed several time to call in low-difficulty moose with the base meuh-box for deers, and some type of deers (can't remeber which ones) react to the one for mimic the sound of antlers chocking.
One type lure a fleeing black bear with the mooo-box on layton lake.

Have ever experienced some kind of weird change on the range, does it is affected by the wind ?
Also use caller make high difficulty level animals of the species flee, and sometimes use it 4 to 2 in a row make some precious deer flee (while low level female won't, but the males running can trigger them too). I talk about silent immobile in a bush calls.

Also some animals seems to react by a warnning, or some deer lif their head, turn around and become very attentive when using other baits, for exemple marsh bulls on Fernando react to boar caller sometimes by their roar. Odd

What's your experience with callers ?

[Femboi UwU]

i dont know much about hunting and i havent got that much time in the game but i can tell you my best experience which happened due to a glitch i think so basicly this whitetail buck got stuck in the terrain and i walked up to it and spammed the caller because i thought it was funny and every time i called it would warning call me so it was just us calling back and forth for about 30 minutes

[ATOMIC]

There is a perk that gives a chance for a different animal to respond to callers, so that alone makes the claim untrue. While this is useful for animals that don't have a caller, I prefer not to go with that perk because sometimes involving animals you don't want messes up your shots.

However. from what I've seen, some animals are curious about the calls from other animals regardless of having this perk or not. They don't come to you in the same way as a called animal does though. The Siberian musk deer, which do not have a caller, seem to do this a lot for quite a few different callers. Sometimes they call back, sometimes they just stop what they're doing and stand there looking.

I think in general males of high difficulty are unpredictable. Sometimes callers will work as intended, sometimes not at all (I've seen plenty just ignore it, but it might be because it is more important for them to travel to their next need zone location), or sometimes will cause them to flee. Behavior seems to differ if they are in a group or not as well. Once in a group, they seem to prefer to stay with the group... so, if you manage to get a good response from one of them, there's a good chance the others will slowly move in as well even if they weren't calm (I suspect this is pretty much what makes the "Peppe's Challenge" achievement even possible).

There's a possibility that with the high difficulty males, they remember your call. So if they happened to spot you at some point beforehand (with or without you realizing it), any calls after that might not work anymore even if they are calm. I really don't know for sure, but it sure seems like it sometimes and I wouldn't doubt it. If such a mechanic exists, it would be cool to test and see how long you have to wait before the caller becomes useful again for that animal. I always assume that this mechanic exists, so if I spook a harder male, I just let it go and return to the area another day and try again. Tracking it for awhile and trying to call it again never seems to work with harder males for me.

[fushia magma shrimp]

I've learned recently about the perk, never used it. And damn this black bear was coming in the way every animals does, as well as cautious moose the same way solo deer seems to be, so...
I don't have any rule nor comprehension, i juste see strange fact that contradict everything i've heard on callers so far (except for your account)

[fushia magma shrimp]

And also yeah, i've tested further with red deer, i can confirm than solo high level male seems very very cautious the closer they get to undected call (hid at max in a bush, not moving) and if you use it once they launch a warnning you'll never can use it again on the same hunt (they'll move away if you do).
It's even worst if they saw you call. Also species seems to react quite differently to calling. For instance some species like mule deer will shout the hells out every time you got to close, freeze for eternity and continue to call with regularity or moove very slowly away. In that case you call in, they'll come easy peasy to you, even if they hear you again they freeze and shout again, and you can still call them.
Red deer male is another matter, they come in slowly but surely on trot every time you shout after them (10s or so to ''dialogue'') or if you initiate they respond and come in, very slowly and cautious if they didn't answer, if they come.

In herd every species tend to follow the pack, the higher the difficulties the later they come and with caution, which make them quite difficult in close hunt cause the first useless female will certanily give in the alert on stand in the way of your arrow

That'd be very cool to have a compendium on every call reaction species, i mean something that you can typo yourself or that update each time you discover some pinciples of behavior

[JeDagelijkseIntrovert]

Originally posted by fushia magma shrimp:

Have ever experienced some kind of weird change on the range, does it is affected by the wind ?

Callers should not be affected by wind

Originally posted by fushia magma shrimp:

Also use caller make high difficulty level animals of the species flee, and sometimes use it 4 to 2 in a row make some precious deer flee (while low level female won't, but the males running can trigger them too). I talk about silent immobile in a bush calls.

Callers should not make higher difficulty animals flee, it's most likely scent what scares them away even if the wind direction goes away from them.
I would suggest using scent eliminator before the deer reaches about 80 yards / 75 meters.
If you decide to do so, keep a timer in hand with the duration of the scent eliminator so you know when you should reuse it.

I'm mixed on visual detection, because I've had instances where they would get alerted to my presence from 30 meters away, and other times only 10-15 meters.
However I would suggest going into prone rather than crouch as it lowers the detection rate even more(yes, even if the dash(visual indicator on the bottom right) is already a small gray dash.)

If for whatever reason you need to move, go into prone and move to your new location.
Be sure you go slow and don't use "run" while moving in prone.
Or as I like to call it, don't use fast prone.

[fushia magma shrimp]

Please, stop talking about the basics all over again. I hunt on 60 to 40m, often at 25m on long tracks with bows, meaning i know how to use scent, lure, environnement to hide, and noise management.
I talk about standing still in the bush agiants the wind, sprayed out, not spotted, then call.

[JeDagelijkseIntrovert]

Originally posted by fushia magma shrimp:

Please, stop talking about the basics all over again. I hunt on 60 to 40m, often at 25m on long tracks with bows, meaning i know how to use scent, lure, environnement to hide, and noise management.
I talk about standing still in the bush agiants the wind, sprayed out, not spotted, then call.

I'm reciting the basics because callers do not cause animals to flee.
This has been tested many times since the release.

If you really want to find out what's causing them to flee, take note of the statistics before or right after you've called them in.
It's most likely visual detection or scent that makes them flee.

You've also to keep of mind of your surroundings, especially if you use the skill "Who's deer?" as some animals will chase other animals or make them flee.

And yes, you are correct, high difficulty animals tend to be more cautious.
But I can't pressure enough how important prone is and how much it is overlooked by people, yes you may already be hidden, and the visual indicator may say so, but if you want to get close to skittish animals or animals that sense you quickly, you need to be in prone; Only go in crouch(only when necessary) if you're ready to shoot, once you go into the crouch stance, you've 3 seconds to take the shot.

[ATOMIC]

There is also a perk that increases the chance of getting vocal responses, so what people report on that will be different as well.

Again, I am sticking with my own observations and I believe a call will make some animals flee if they have previously spotted you. When it happens and I'm confused because the animal was calm, I assume this is the case... especially because I stalk 90% of the time and rarely ambush. Many animals could easily spot me on either side of me as I'm stalking and then circle in front of me.

As far as I know, any animal will either flee or attack when you call them in and they get too close... even if you are fully hidden and prone, even with scent eliminator. Some animals will get closer than others. Rightfully so, since they are expecting something to be there that isn't.

I've seen plenty of people say that they have tested things, but for some odd reason, you can't find much video proof of said tests. I've seen a couple out there, but they are always with just a few animals and usually ambushed at a need zone. There are a couple videos about how callers work, but they are very general and make false claims that a caller cannot call in a different animal. They do not demonstrate the perks involving callers and how they might affect your hunting. This is not something easy to test with a scientific approach. You have no way of knowing if some animal has spotted you previously within the past 10 minutes, 20 minutes, 30 minutes... and so on. Even if you manage to know for certain, you would have to somehow keep your eyes on that animal from a far distance while keeping track of time. Doing any test and noting results after just a couple kills isn't going to cut it when there is always a possibility that the AI behavior is chosen randomly... and the probabilities of each possibility can be different by species, male or female, difficulty level, and what they happen to be doing at that very moment (traveling, eating, drinking, resting, sending out mating calls, etc).

[JeDagelijkseIntrovert]

Originally posted by ATOMIC:

I've seen plenty of people say that they have tested things, but for some odd reason, you can't find much video proof of said tests.

It's a collective research, keep in mind that, if callers did cause animals to flee; there would be a lot of steam guides and videos warning you about that.
and with Ambush locations, like need zones, the chance of animals fleeing are even higher because they're usually not the only species out there.

Originally posted by ATOMIC:

There are a couple videos about how callers work, but they are very general and make false claims that a caller cannot call in a different animal. They do not demonstrate the perks involving callers and how they might affect your hunting.

If they do not mention the skill "Who's deer?", they're usually new to the game.
I'm not going to call them out by names, because that's disrespectful.
However, the reason for this, usually comes down to their communities/subscribers picking up on the game because they're playing it and come to them for tips or tutorials, etc.

"Who's deer?" skill feels like it has a 5% chance of activating, however, since it's reliant on a RNG, it may not even happen in like 5k+ tries.
The vocalization skill to callers appears to have broken recently, which may be tied to animals not doing calls when idle or being warned.

Originally posted by ATOMIC:

This is not something easy to test with a scientific approach. You have no way of knowing if some animal has spotted you previously within the past 10 minutes, 20 minutes, 30 minutes... and so on. Even if you manage to know for certain, you would have to somehow keep your eyes on that animal from a far distance while keeping track of time.
-snip-
the probabilities of each possibility can be different by species, male or female, difficulty level

Animals who have recently spooked or have recently seen you have very specific animations to them.
But yes, you can't always know for sure, that's why a slow prone helps a lot.
If it recently fled, once you find a 'very fresh' dropping track, proceed with a slow prone as it may be very close by, if you find a 'just now' dropping track, it most likely already fled again if you did anything else than approaching it with a prone.

You are correct on the probabilities, however the chance is not affected by need zones, species(kind of) and gender.
The default percentage is whatever the attraction strength is, and gets affected by difficulty, if the animal is on attentive state or not and whether the animal is docile or skittish or not.
Somehow, animals that are resting are not affected by the callers, which I'm not sure of if it is bugged or intentional.

[ATOMIC]

Originally posted by INFP-T Slagroompje:

It's a collective research, keep in mind that, if callers did cause animals to flee; there would be a lot of steam guides and videos warning you about that.

That's a good point but the thing with guides and even videos is that they easily become out of date. Everything you describe is exactly what I see... most of the time... just not all of the time. What you describe again and again is most likely the intended behavior, but it does not remove what some people are witnessing. Perhaps it's a bug that depends on a very specific sequence of events that occurs only with specific animals, and depending on playstyle, one person might encounter it more often than another or perhaps not at all.

Originally posted by INFP-T Slagroompje:

If it recently fled, once you find a 'very fresh' dropping track, proceed with a slow prone as it may be very close by, if you find a 'just now' dropping track, it most likely already fled again if you did anything else than approaching it with a prone.

You really need to stop with this obvious info. This is just like watching one of those videos. We're not concerned with "communities/subscribers picking up on the game because they're playing it and come to them for tips or tutorials, etc." here. We're trying to get to the bottom of what we happen to be seeing in the game.

[JeDagelijkseIntrovert]

Originally posted by ATOMIC:

That's a good point but the thing with guides and even videos is that they easily become out of date. Everything you describe is exactly what I see... most of the time... just not all of the time. What you describe again and again is most likely the intended behavior, but it does not remove what some people are witnessing. Perhaps it's a bug that depends on a very specific sequence of events that occurs only with specific animals, and depending on playstyle, one person might encounter it more often than another or perhaps not at all.

I can see it breaking yes, but it's very unlikely, especially since it should not affect awareness at all; it never has been implemented.
I really would suggest keeping track of the statistics, record it even and reporting it to EW.

Originally posted by ATOMIC:

You really need to stop with this obvious info. This is just like watching one of those videos. We're not concerned with "communities/subscribers picking up on the game because they're playing it and come to them for tips or tutorials, etc." here. We're trying to get to the bottom of what we happen to be seeing in the game.

I don't watch these videos, so I don't know what's being discussed in them, neither am I sure what it has to do with how people make those tutorials and their communities.
As stated earlier:

Originally posted by INFP-T Slagroompje:

But I can't pressure enough how important prone is and how much it is overlooked by people, yes you may already be hidden, and the visual indicator may say so

The only reason why I keep bringing this up is because the visibility has been broken since the release of MAP as well as me constantly seeing people not utilizing it.
But out of respect, I will stop bringing up the prone stuff.
I just want to help out, no need to get moody from that, yes it may be obvious or even annoying, but refresher may something people might need every now and then; It's very hard to tell who has read every post/comment and who hasn't.
So just ask next time, no need to be so upfront and direct about it.

Anyways, I personally think you're all seeing the effect of what I assume is the "animal update threading" update that came with MAP's release, having a big impact on animals.
This may include(from reading posts and personal experience):
- Geese & Ducks being alerted to hunting pressure
- Animals having no audio clue or visual audio marker
- Animals knowing about your presence through smell and vision
- Predators not responding/acknowledging to callers
- Animals being frozen on spot after being respawned
and many more issues.

[ATOMIC]

Originally posted by INFP-T Slagroompje:

The only reason why I keep bringing this up is because the visibility has been broken since the release of MAP as well as me constantly seeing people not utilizing it.

Never had a broken visibility problem, but I'll take the word of anybody who says they do.

Originally posted by INFP-T Slagroompje:

Anyways, I personally think you're all seeing the effect of what I assume is the "animal update threading" update that came with MAP's release, having a big impact on animals.
This may include(from reading posts and personal experience):
- Geese & Ducks being alerted to hunting pressure
- Animals having no audio clue or visual audio marker
- Animals knowing about your presence through smell and vision
- Predators not responding/acknowledging to callers
- Animals being frozen on spot after being respawned
and many more issues.

I don't think it has to do with MAP's release. It happened to me on a couple occasions beforehand. One instance I remember clearly because I was calling in a lone traveling Mythical Red Deer on the border between Bohndorf and Jonsdorf in Hirschfelden... against the wind but descented anyway, prone in a bush. I called, it stopped ahead of me about 100m away, turned around, looked around for what seemed like a couple minutes. Trees were in the way, I grew impatient and called again and then it bolted. It wasn't possible for me to spook a different animal that could in turn spook my target either, so I just don't know what the deal is. Another invisible Red Deer that came too close and my target sensed it? Beats me.

Here's another thing that has happened to me involving Red Deer that I cannot explain. I was just standing in the woods switching out my scopes for night-vision and reorganizing my callers when I heard some quiet thunder coming from a distance. It got louder and louder, but it never started raining. It kept getting louder and now it wasn't stopping, it was just a constant rolling sound that eventually became intolerably loud... and then bam... I got trampled by a herd of over 20 Red Deer. What would spook an entire herd of that size well outside of my area and send them directly towards me non-stop?

[JeDagelijkseIntrovert]

Originally posted by ATOMIC:

Never had a broken visibility problem, but I'll take the word of anybody who says they do

I'm not sure if it's against the community rules, but here's one of the many posts out there https://steamcommunity.com/app/518790/discussions/5/3046109410075148368/

However I would suggest not reviving an old post

Originally posted by ATOMIC:

I don't think it has to do with MAP's release. It happened to me on a couple occasions beforehand. One instance I remember clearly because I was calling in a lone traveling Mythical Red Deer on the border between Bohndorf and Jonsdorf in Hirschfelden... against the wind but descented anyway, prone in a bush. I called, it stopped ahead of me about 100m away, turned around, looked around for what seemed like a couple minutes. Trees were in the way, I grew impatient and called again and then it bolted. It wasn't possible for me to spook a different animal that could in turn spook my target either, so I just don't know what the deal is. Another invisible Red Deer that came too close and my target sensed it? Beats me.

Here's another thing that has happened to me involving Red Deer that I cannot explain. I was just standing in the woods switching out my scopes for night-vision and reorganizing my callers when I heard some quiet thunder coming from a distance. It got louder and louder, but it never started raining. It kept getting louder and now it wasn't stopping, it was just a constant rolling sound that eventually became intolerably loud... and then bam... I got trampled by a herd of over 20 Red Deer. What would spook an entire herd of that size well outside of my area and send them directly towards me non-stop?

I wonder if OP has the same issue with red deers to be honest, and that's why he created this post?
I've witnessed several times where the female red deers do not render in and make no sound unless you zoom in with a weapon, this also goes for Blue Wildebeest.

I also want to apologize for my previous posts, I should've kept it more civil and I should've worded them differently.

--
To keep on topic,

@OP, which animals do you have the most issues with?

[ATOMIC]

Originally posted by INFP-T Slagroompje:

I'm not sure if it's against the community rules, but here's one of the many posts out there https://steamcommunity.com/app/518790/discussions/5/3046109410075148368/

Oh, I see. I always assumed that Hirsch bushes were simply like that. It always made sense to me because those bushes are not very thick at all. I've read that topic before, but I just passed it over because to me it seemed to be intentional of the devs to change it. There are still some bushes here and there in Hirsch you can hide in fully though... so being that not all bushes were affected, it kinda strengthens my thoughts that the change was probably desired and intentional. Hirsch was difficult to 100% missions/side missions/achievements because of this, not gonna lie, but still quite doable.

[fushia magma shrimp]

And about having an idea of if you have ever been detected, If you go against the wind onto a zone colose to a need you know very well, extra care and spend your lifetime approaching in prone, or more simply knowing your distance with the sound you make, you can be quiete sure.
But it takes a lot of patience sure