For the Devs, a quick lesson in terminal ballistics.

[Luke]

I love this game but one thing keeps bugging the hell out of me and that is the wildly unrealistic terminal performance of the firearms, in what universe is a 44 Remington Magnum more potent than a 45-70 or a 12 guage slug? And how is a 303 Enfield more powerful than a 30-06 shooting the same caliber and same weight bullets considerably slower? How exactly is the 9.3x74R the same level of power as a 7mm? One of these is a dangerous game cartridge slinging 286gr bullets and well suited for taking down bear and cape buffalo and the other is a decent elk cartridge. The devs are clearly missing something so time to go back to basics.
Basics of terminal ballistics are the energy of the bullet on impact determines total wounding potential, weight, sectional density, caliber, and bullet construction determine how and where it does that wounding. Given similar bullet construction larger caliber heavier weight bullets do far more damage deeper in the wound tract where as high speed light bullets do explosive damage in a much more shallow wound tract. Compare ballistic gel tests of a 55gr 223 and 240gr 44 magnum for example, both can make similar levels of energy but the 223 makes a very wide shock cavity 2-8" into the block were as the 44 magnum will tend to carve a much more consistent wound all the way through, this deeper wounding is why hunters around the world prefer larger calibers and heavier bullets where thicker bodied game is concerned like the 416 Rem Mag/Rigby launching 400gr projectiles at 2400fps which will penetrate several feet of bone and soft tissue with shocking consistency, medium game hunters prefer the faster end of the scale for significant shock damage aka hydrostatic shock for quick kills and minimal tracking but still require consistent penetration in the 20-28" range like the 270 Winchester launching 130gr pills at 3,050fps being an ideal example, and varmint hunters love the extreme end of the speed scale for absolutely explosive results on pests like the 22-250 launching 50gr bullets at a blistering 3,800fps.
There are two types of wounding as far as bullets are concerned the first is the shock cavity that we have all seen in slow motion ballistic gel tests, this is the shock effect that I mentioned earlier and it absolutely can cause a very quick kill, but the second and less dramatic is the permanent wound cavity which is what damage remains after the bullet has done it's work, the larger this wound is the more free bleeding the wound will be which is why larger caliber heavier bullets enjoy something of an advantage vs their lighter counterparts (as a function of energy) since they nearly always create a larger permanent wound. The downside of this efficient wounding is of course recoil, the heavier the projectile the higher the recoil at the same energy levels and gun weight and of course trajectory because at that same level of energy the lighter bullet will likely drop much less since it has to be moving much faster to be at that same level of energy and hence gravity has much less time to pull it down at a given range, but that is external ballistics so I won't expand on that further since it is off topic.
Sectional density is a fancy term that just means how heavy a bullet is for a given frontal area this allows some bullets to penetrate better than their caliber would imply, a good example of this is the 6.5x55 which is almost exclusively used with bullets in the 140-160gr range which have a shockingly high sectional density of .287-.328. I have personally used that caliber for many years and have never recovered a single bullet, they have blown through every deer and hog I have ever shot, not as wide a wound as my 30-06 makes but it will punch though at darn near any angle even with rapid expansion bullets. for comparison the 150gr bullets I use in my 30-06 have a sectional density of only .226 which really is enough for deer class game but I if I were to hunt anything larger I would want to work up a load with heavier bullets like a 180gr.

Bullet terms
Poly tips. Despite looking like the sharp hard tip would aid in penetration that is not what they are for, in fact quite the opposite, they are there to increase the rate at which the bullet expands by basically wedging the bullet open. The first use of them expanded so fast in fact that they often blew up like varmint bullets, later thicker tapered jackets fixed that issue and now they are generally an all purpose bullet with reliable expansion. They are also used to slightly increase the aerodynamics of a bullet and their consistency as well since they won't deform under hard recoil like some soft points will.
Bonded bullet. Bullets with the jacket and core chemically bonded for more reliable weight retention and penetration than conventional cup and core designs. Weight retention is in the 80%+ spectrum.
Partition bullets, similar in concept to the bonded bullet in terms of reliable weight retention but using a partition separating the front and back of the lead core rather than bonding the jacket and core together although a bullet can be both partitioned and bonded for a high weight retention usually in the 90%+ range.
Soft point. A generic term for a soft exposed lead tip designed to flatten and mushroom under impact.
Hollow point. A bullet with a cavity in the nose for opening the bullet with hydraulic pressure once a fluid media is struck.
Hardcast. A hardened lead bullet with no jacket, usually used at handgun speeds and mostly with a wide flat tip to maximize wounding with these non-expanding bullets although the wounding is still much narrower than with expanding bullet with wound tracts ranging from caliber sized holes to about 1.5" depending on speed. Often highly praised for their penetration.
Mono metal. A bullet made without a lead core and jacket, often made with copper or guilding metal, very high penetration for an expanding bullet as 95%+ weight retention is the norm, a little less shock damage than lead core bullets but highly effective if you need larger caliber like penetration.
Solid. A tough deep penetrating bullet design usually used in rifles designed to stop charging animals and almost always in larger calibers (9.3mm+). Can be either round nose or if you want a little more soft tissue damage a flat nose design like the previously mentioned hardcast. Can also be made as a monolithic solid (mono metal without the jacket/core) for extra toughness if heavy bone is struck.
Frangible. A bullet designed to break up on impact, almost always used in varmint bullets and sometimes in self defense rounds where over penetration is a concern, these bullets almost always expend all of their energy in the first few inches of penetration making them a poor choice for anything larger than a fox.
Boat tail. A taper on the tail of a bullet to improve it's aerodynamic efficiency to carry more energy to the target and reduce wind drift, can be combined with almost any other bullet design features and often is used with poly tips for a little extra efficiency.

There are a thousand other less significant terms and properties that I won't bore you with but those are the basics. I would love to see a realistic ballistic overhaul for this game, it really would make it much more immersive.

Edit: And if anyone would like to know what that looks like in terms of numbers here is the relative lethality of some of the more popular cartridges using the E x SD x A = KPS formula, not a perfect yardstick but better than most and there is no perfect formula IMHO.
Relative lethality at 100yards
.223 Remington (60 grain at 3000 fps) - 6.3
.243 Winchester (100 grain at 2960 fps) - 18.1
6.5x55mm SE (140 grain at 2700 fps) - 30.7
.270 Winchester (150 grain at 2850 fps) - 37.4
7mm Remington Magnum (150 grain at 3110 fps) - 44.8
.30-30 Winchester (150 grain at 2390 fps) - 22.8
.30-06 Springfield (180 grain at 2700 fps) - 49.2
.303 British (180 grain at 2460 fps) - 40.1
.308 Winchester (180 grain at 2620 fps) - 46.2
.300 Winchester Magnum (180 grain at 2960 fps) - 59.5
.338 Winchester Magnum (250 grain at 2650 fps) - 94.8
.357 Magnum (158 grain at 1830 fps) - 12.7
9.3x74 (286gr at 2360fps) - 88.2
.44 Remington Magnum (240 grain at 1760 fps) - 26.4
.45-70 Government (405 grain at 1330 fps) - 55.0
You can clearly see that the performance in game with some cartridges is WILDLY off compared to real world especially in the cases of the 45-70, 9.3x74, and 338 Win Mag. Others like the 303 and 44 mag might be a little overstated. Just my $0.02

[Luke]

With all of this in mind here are some suggestions to make the game more realistic.
Change the 300 Magnum to a class 5-9, because that is the kind of game that it is used for in real life.
Change the 338 Win Mag to 6-9 but give it a bit more penetration, that is what those 225 and 250gr bullets are for.
Change the 6.5x55 to class 3-7 that is where it's strong suit really is, yeah it penetrates deep enough that you can kill a moose with it but even as a long time fan I would not use it for that unless it was my only rifle due to the relatively narrow wound tract on an animal of that size.
Give the 270 a bit more expansion, in real life it is close in performance to the 308 with similar bullet weights.
Make the 30-06 slightly more potent than the 308 which fits it's real world performance.
The 9.3x74R should be a class 6-9 with considerably more penetration than it's current value, the standard 286gr bullets of good construction can double lung a cape buffalo, 9.3mm are accepted in some countries for the largest dangerous game, far more potent than the 7mm that it mimics now.
Step up the performance of the 45-70 considerably, depending on if you model the 300gr class bullets or the 400gr I would increase either the expansion or penetration.
The 44 Mag might be a little hot for it's real world figures, tone down the wounding width although penetration with a hardcast might be realistic.
The 7.62x54R is a ballistic twin to the 308 and should be a class 4-8, it never made sense to have it a class 3-7 with 243 level penetration.

[MooseDragon98]

Yes to all of this

[will wabbit hunter]

Originally posted by Luke:

With all of this in mind here are some suggestions to make the game more realistic.
Change the 300 Magnum to a class 5-9, because that is the kind of game that it is used for in real life.
Change the 338 Win Mag to 6-9 but give it a bit more penetration, that is what those 225 and 250gr bullets are for.
Change the 6.5x55 to class 3-7 that is where it's strong suit really is, yeah it penetrates deep enough that you can kill a moose with it but even as a long time fan I would not use it for that unless it was my only rifle due to the relatively narrow wound tract on an animal of that size.
Give the 270 a bit more expansion, in real life it is close in performance to the 308 with similar bullet weights.
Make the 30-06 slightly more potent than the 308 which fits it's real world performance.
The 9.3x74R should be a class 6-9 with considerably more penetration than it's current value, the standard 286gr bullets of good construction can double lung a cape buffalo, 9.3mm are accepted in some countries for the largest dangerous game, far more potent than the 7mm that it mimics now.
Step up the performance of the 45-70 considerably, depending on if you model the 300gr class bullets or the 400gr I would increase either the expansion or penetration.
The 44 Mag might be a little hot for it's real world figures, tone down the wounding width although penetration with a hardcast might be realistic.
The 7.62x54R is a ballistic twin to the 308 and should be a class 4-8, it never made sense to have it a class 3-7 with 243 level penetration.

no if you make the 7.62x54R 4 TO 8 YOU LOSE A RIFLE FOR FERAL GOATS ETC AND YOU THEN STUCK HAVING TO USE 243 OR MUZZLELOADER OR 45 AIR RIFLE and 223 and 30.30 FOR CLASS 3 ANIMALS and if would be nice to keep it class 3 for options AND IN REAL LIFE NO USES BIG BORE calibres on gators the most people go to is 270 recoil levels and id like to keep the challenge of having to shoot them in the neck. so keep the 300 and 338 were they are 6.5 2 to 6 would be better i would like to see more new class 2 and 3 rifles added to the game

[Luke]

Did you miss the part where I said the 6.5x55 should be a level 3-7? That is what I use in real life for small southern deer and it is perfect for that. Compare the real world ballistics of the 7.62x54R to the 308 and they are darn near identical, so it makes no sense to list one of them as a class 3-7 and the other a 4-8.
I agree the game needs another class three rifle, a 25-06 or 257 Roberts would be perfect for that role.

[will wabbit hunter]

Originally posted by Luke:

Did you miss the part where I said the 6.5x55 should be a level 3-7? That is what I use in real life for small southern deer and it is perfect for that. Compare the real world ballistics of the 7.62x54R to the 308 and they are darn near identical, so it makes no sense to list one of them as a class 3-7 and the other a 4-8.
I agree the game needs another class three rifle, a 25-06 or 257 Roberts would be perfect for that role.

6.5 can be used in real life for foxes etc so that why i said 2 to 6 just my thoughts. 25.06 i have wanted in the game for a long time class 2 to 6 would be ideal even 2 to 5 would be ok

[Luke]

You could use a 458 Lott for fox as well, but when we consider the integrity of the animal after the shot a 6.5mm is going to be a bit much with any expanding bullet, mine has blown a 75mm exit out the far side of a male boar on a double lung shot. That might be just a bit excessive if you like pelts which is why many people use 17s and 22s in real life, you could handload a 6.5x55 to be a decent pelt gun with a reduced charge and 85gr bullets but if we go down that rabbit hole we will never be seen again. Class 3-7 or 3-8 is where it really belongs if we are being realistic, it comes into it's own on the very small deer with quick kills and little meat damage and the wounding width of a 6.5mm reguardless of it's speed and energy starts becoming a bit less quick and clean killing past the 200kg (440lbs) mark although it's heavy for caliber bullets make it penetrate enough for larger game like moose I would rather have a significantly larger caliber at that point, something like the 35 Whelen which this game desperately needs, medium bores just cause a lot more free bleeding wounds. I have been doing the red deer grind and I find even the 308 a touch undergunned on 300 yard shots on anything but a perfect broadside, but of course you cannot use a 300 magnum because it jumps you up three classes from a 4 to a 7 despite being the same caliber which is just silly.
I think the devs get too caught up with the word "magnum" it really does not mean anything at all, a 6.5PRC will launch the exact same bullets at the same speed as a 6.5 Remington Magnum the same is true for the 222 Magnum and the 223 Rem, no deer or fox can read to the headstamp to tell the difference, heck sometimes the non-magnum cases make more speed and energy than the magnum cases do such as the 28 Nosler which beats the 7mm Rem Mag hands down, in fact all of the Nosler line beats their contemporary magnum counterparts by a decent margin. That is why I stick to the actual ballistics rather than hype, a 300 Win mag pushes the exact same bullets as a 30-06 just 200-300fps faster not exactly earth shattering difference there, certainly not enough to justify moving it up three classes.