Weapon / item unlocking and level progression system. Can it be modified?

[Kaned Dragon]

Firstly very sorry if this post comes across as a bit all over the shop.
I’ve been awake all night hunting and working on design projects, and I’m very dazed.
Been thinking about this all night. But having trouble focusing.
Also sorry if this has been asked before, I got the energy to write this, but not the energy to search the forums to see if this has been asked before.

I’d like to discuss the weapon progression system and unlocking of items in the game.
In the classic, from what I remember we could purchase any weapon from the start using real money.
In COTW we currently have a progression and unlocking system which is like most other game out there.

We start with the basic weapons and rank up to use the best weapons and equipment.

I’d like either a high level perk, or some sort of weapon argumentation / customisation system for players who’ve reached that high rank weapons.

Like a lot of players I’ve unlocked and purchased the 338.
Now if you’re not interested in getting the high level trophy animals and are hunting just for the hunt “like myself”.
The 338 will quite easily take down any animal with relative ease.

Now I can only speak for myself but I really don’t like the look of the 338 rifle. I’m okay with the round but the rangemaster isn’t the nicest looking weapon in the game.
I was using the 7mm regent and have moved over to using the 270 Stradivarius, I like the wooden stock with the engraving.
But the Stradivarius is designed to only use the class 2 ammo which isn’t effective with larger animals.

At the moment the weapons are what they are.

The weapons are limited to the ammo that is available.
I would really like to be able to choice the ammo I can put into the weapon I’m using.

So rather than the weapon being limited by the round.
Would it be possible to alternate what ammo type we can put into the weapons.

I don’t want to be limited by the weapon.
But I’m okay with the ammo round dictating the class of animal I can hunt ethically.

Having learnt more about the trophy system, I can understand why it would be a problem allowing players to customise the weapons. theoretically players could use this to make the hunting easier for themselves, which could negate the levelling and ethical hunting system in the game.

But if The ammo round was the element that defined the trophy system.
I think it would allow the players to somewhat augment the weapon of there choice while still maintaining the integrity bonus needed for the high level trophy animals.

I’m getting the impression the perks are what really make the difference in the players hunt not the weapons that the players use.
Gun spotting, noise decrease, steadying aim, effectiveness of the scents.
The items we unlock also feel like it’s making it a bit smoother to hunt. The scent eliminator, new callers, and ammo round, polymers tips and so forth
As I’ve levelled up in the game, I’ve been having an easier time hunting, or at least I have abilities now which give me more options as I hunt.

If the ammo round is what defines the ethical kill and not the rifle, I hazard a guess it would allow players to make the rifles what they want, while not effecting the trophy system.

I don’t have any knowledge of weapon design and ballistics, and what can be changed on rifles or handgun or shotgun.

I know you can add stabilisers to compound and recurve bows, But the weight and grain of the arrow head juxtaposed with the strength, length and material of the arrow shaft. Affect the range and damage an arrow can do.
The fletchings change the dynamics of the arrows flight. Shorter fletchings allow for more distance, but have less effect on the archer paradox. So more distance less accuracy,,, at least for traditional bows, not sure about compounds and recurve bows.

(Asking devs or moderators here)
Would this sort of change to the game mechanics be possible to implement. If not that’s okay I understand it’s very difficult to change core game mechanics, so if this can’t be done, it would be nice to know. And I’ll stop asking.

(Asking real life hunters and gun manufactures)
How much can a person augment a weapon in real life.
When it comes to factory made rifles, I’m guessing the design doesn’t get change until the next generation of that range of rifle?

A bit like cars or bike. 2015 series 2016 series and so forth.

However I can’t help but wander if a person has the money, could a person order a rifle with changes to material and component designs. Maybe make it sightly more accurate, or powerful, or even a stock and muzzle change?

My favourite looking weapon is the 7mm regent, I love the stock going to the end of the barrel. But I hate only having one round.
I like the distance and accuracy of the 338 and the power. But I don’t like the look of the rangemaster rifle.
So I’d like to create or augment the 7mm regent and give it a 4 round magazine, and change the iron sight. Maybe have an option to put in 270 or 243 round instead of the 7mm.

If I put a 243 or 270 round in the modified weapon, the rounds distance would not be a long as the 7mm or 338 as the actual round doesn’t have the explosive charge and it’s design and dynamics would also be decreased. “I don’t know this for sure, so please correct me if I’m wrong”.

That way I could still use the rifle or gun I want, but the round defines the ballistic effectiveness and damages to the animal.

I’m at a point in the game where, unless I’m specifically hunting for a mission or trophy, I’m just hunting.
But I feel I’m stuck with a rifle and handgun which I’m not really satisfied with.
It’s like driving a car for the next few years you really don’t like.
As this is a game and not reality or a simulator I’d really like to have some options. But I understand the dev need to follow their own direction in line with what they are going for, that the fans and players will enjoy too.

But reality first, so what can be done?

All the bests

[Kaned Dragon]

Sorry just thought of another pioint I wanted to mention.
We got the missions from conni where we have to use the special roe deer scent.
There's the mission where you need to harvest a downed red fox, using the 270 from 200+ yards using a new modified scope.
How about, a bunch of missions which unlock a special gunsmith character, who can modify the weapons.
So instead of it just being there, we have to work to unlock it.
Prove we got the skill for the prize.

[Chaon]

I just look at the weapon progression as practicing/experience with weapons. The more you successfully hunt with a weapon the better you are able to handle larger/more powerful weapons.

But I also understand where others would like to buy the biggest, baddest weapon asap and save up for it but then that would mean that barely anyone would buy the middle weapons and they would be awaste putting them in the game at all.

[Leadmagnet]

Ok,for a little real world info:

If you have the money, there are some custom rifle makers out there that will build you anything want.

Stock rifles:

Depending on what it is; you can just get the barrel and magazines (CZ455 in the .22LR/.22mag/.17HMR comes to mind first). The other that comes to mind is the TC Contender.

A lot of the rifles out there have after market stocks and there are ways to tune the action and barrel. Probably one of the most mod-able rifles out there is the famous (infamous?) Ruger 10/22. There is so much after market stuff out there for that model you can literally build one from the ground up.

[Kaned Dragon]

Originally posted by Chaon:

But I also understand where others would like to buy the biggest, baddest weapon asap and save up for it but then that would mean that barely anyone would buy the middle weapons and they would be awaste putting them in the game at all.

Cheers for the input.

The devs seem to have designed it with both a level progression and also an ethical weight system.
Smaller the animal smaller the round, larger beast require bigger bangs, which makes sence. Seems like what would happen in real life.
Gone for the trophy hunting aspect from the sport. Works well with trophy points.

Well the middle class weapons being left out is kind of what happened on Classic. When I started playing classic i think it only had 3 rifles. 243, 270, 300. the 243 and 270 are like in COTW, The 300 was the biggest, and it was one shot, like the 7mm and 338.
If you go on the classic store the list is rifles is so much bigger, plus you have the alternative skins.
There are a few rifles that are about the same performance as each other.
You can pick one of the good guns, and leave it there, never touching the others.
Although, It's nice to have multiples in the collection,

Originally posted by Leadmagnet:

Ok,for a little real world info:
If you have the money, there are some custom rifle makers out there that will build you anything want.
Stock rifles:
Depending on what it is; you can just get the barrel and magazines (CZ455 in the .22LR/.22mag/.17HMR comes to mind first). The other that comes to mind is the TC Contender.
A lot of the rifles out there have after market stocks and there are ways to tune the action and barrel. Probably one of the most mod-able rifles out there is the famous (infamous?) Ruger 10/22. There is so much after market stuff out there for that model you can literally build one from the ground up.

Thanks man, that's some good info.
After market.
Would the tritium points we can put on the irons sights count as after market?

It's thought provoking, @Chaon is right people will try and make it as big and bad as they can.
I personaly found playing both game, the bigger rifles can be heavier to use. I liked the lightweight balanced rifles, as I'd get better general performance.
And as you said @Leadmagnet, if you got the money you could make anything, but that couldn't be put in the game, would be chaos.

I'm still wandering if the ethical class needed the for integrity bonus is related to the weapon or the ammo,,,, or both.

As for the type and level the augmentation that can be done. Right now, I'm loving the 270 Stradivarius, just wish there was a 3rd bullet for it which was better than the polymer tip, for moose.
Wish I could improve the distance and accuracy. And now I'm getting into my long distance shooting (400m- 500m) I wish I could put another little line in the scope recticle.
So that's the level I would like right now.

How far would you go?

[Leadmagnet]

Tritium sights are stock on some pistols. I don't know of any stock rifle that comes with them off the top of my head. A lot of the bolt action rifles come no sights at all because the manufacture figures people are going to put a scope on it. Then there are others like the CZ scout and trainer versions that have open sights and can still have a scope mounted on it.

Have you unlocked the Hyperion rifle scope yet? It uses the mil-dot reticle for windage and elevation. The Hyperion also has better magnification than the starter scope.

I do think that Chaon is right about most people building up the biggest cannon they can for a rifle and skipping all of the mid-level rifles. About the only ones that would get the mid-level rifles are those interested in getting the highest possible score for an animal.

How far would I go?

Ideally, I'd like to see it as a choose your caliber and looks and style of the stock (classic Monte Carlo walnut or a composite thumbhole, etc). I'd also like to see it where you could choose single shot or the normal number of rounds the rifle carries depending on the caliber. No high capacity magazines, just what you would find on your average hunting rifle. I'd like to be able to choose the reticle in my scope and have more control over the ammunition than just poly tip or soft point.

[Kaned Dragon]

Originally posted by Leadmagnet:

Tritium sights are stock on some pistols. I don't know of any stock rifle that comes with them off the top of my head. A lot of the bolt action rifles come no sights at all because the manufacture figures people are going to put a scope on it. Then there are others like the CZ scout and trainer versions that have open sights and can still have a scope mounted on it.

Have you unlocked the Hyperion rifle scope yet? It uses the mil-dot reticle for windage and elevation. The Hyperion also has better magnification than the starter scope.

I do think that Chaon is right about most people building up the biggest cannon they can for a rifle and skipping all of the mid-level rifles. About the only ones that would get the mid-level rifles are those interested in getting the highest possible score for an animal.

How far would I go?

Ideally, I'd like to see it as a choose your caliber and looks and style of the stock (classic Monte Carlo walnut or a composite thumbhole, etc). I'd also like to see it where you could choose single shot or the normal number of rounds the rifle carries depending on the caliber. No high capacity magazines, just what you would find on your average hunting rifle. I'd like to be able to choose the reticle in my scope and have more control over the ammunition than just poly tip or soft point.

Hi Leadmagnet, cheers for getting back to me :)

That makes sence, I guess most hunter rarely get that close, or are shooting from a blind. Yes i got the Hyperion, :) I got the Argus too, but I use the Hyperion all the time. Even though I don't know how to understand the mil-dots. But when i used it with the 270 at the 500m target, it only drops by a tiny amount, hence the long distance shooting. Still need to practice. Don't know how to predict wind correction yet.

I did think of a way to balance the big vs mid power gun issue. Give the big guns a weight offset when it came to movement and quick aiming.
make the recoil so big it's not possible to just get back on the target.
I got an example.
When I played Classic back in the early days. I used the 30-06 for ages. I didn't like that the 300 only had one shot. And they hadn't made anthting else at that point.
It worked but wasn't accurate enough for longer shots. I kept missing vitals, and getting light hits,,,, lot's of tracking.
Then they brought out the 8x57 Anschutz, and the 9.3x62 Anschutz. I loved the 9.3, but because it was heavy it made quick shots really hard, again I kept missing vitals.
It might have been my bad aim, but I eventually went over to the 7mm when they brought that out, which was 1 shot, I didn't mind the one shot because I got tired of missing with 5 and lot's of tracking. It was light and accurate and I found. When I aimed at a target that was close and came out of no where, I got a steadier aim, more quicly, and the shot hit the vitals more often.
So using that as an example, Bigger guns are bulkier and not as easy to move with. Slower standing aim, plus it's really wonky. Lighter more balanced rifles are just easier to move with.

I agree with you. Keep it restrained, but have some choice.
I Would like some options with the scope recticle, Hyperion is good, but I find myself waning towards the HELIOS. I'm a bit tired of the others as they all follow the cross hair trend, plus like the red circle.

[Leadmagnet]

How to use the mil-dot scope at least in the real world:

http://www.mil-dot.com/user-guide


Have you used or unlocked the zeroing perk? Level 1 is short range zero and level 2 is the long range zero. The default is medium range zero and for some reason I want to say it is 150 meters. I typically run the bow so I haven't used many points into the rifle perks.

[Kaned Dragon]

Originally posted by Leadmagnet:

How to use the mil-dot scope at least in the real world:

http://www.mil-dot.com/user-guide


Have you used or unlocked the zeroing perk? Level 1 is short range zero and level 2 is the long range zero. The default is medium range zero and for some reason I want to say it is 150 meters. I typically run the bow so I haven't used many points into the rifle perks.

Nice one mate :) Yes, I unlocked all the zeroing perks. I have it going all the time, i use the range finder bino's to get the distance.
I was wandering what the scopes were zero'd to, when not using the zeroing perk. As i want to try using the estimate distance perk instead. So I definately going to have a read on that article and practice on the range.

Funnily enough, i recently unlocked and got the Hawk Edge. It's it become my main weapon. I've been using the 270 as a long distance or to take down prize animals.
I really like that it doesn't spook the animals like the guns, and has the power for instakills, and from what i know it's ethical for all animals, it's a great weapon and it's so satisfying being able to take down a group one by one.

You are into archery at all?

[Leadmagnet]

I tinkered with archery when I was a kid. I had a cheapie recurve and then later a cheap compound. It was kinda hard to practice with neighbors on both sides. Living in an apartment now; I'd have to find an archery range reasonably close. I looked at getting a bow not too long ago. All I can say is jeez those things have changed a ton since I was a kid.

I love the Hawk Edge and run it as my primary bow. When I started running the bow, I also started keeping track of the kills to get some basic info on the animal, range & where I hit. I've found my average shot is around 22-23 yards but I've taken down a whitetail doe at 58yds.

You have the pumping iron perk yet? I've just gotten level two in that not too long ago. It does seem to help in the one shot kills when you hit lungs. It is down right magic for really getting penetration out of the 600gr arrow and using the Hawk Edge.

[Kaned Dragon]

Cool dude, I know what you mean. I started when I was a kid too, archery seems so much more complex now.
I do traditional field archery with a longbow, but out of arrows atm so haven't done it in a year or so, really want to back into it, so need to make new arrows, if I miss it's so easy to loose or break wooden arrows. I saw this bow http://www.merlinarchery.co.uk/oneida-eagle-bows-stock-models.html a while back and I've gone all gooey for it since. it's Like a recurve compound hybrid. Then I saw the price. Going to be a while before i'll be able to afford that.

I've been doing the same recently with the harvest page, I got a bit more pride for the bow kills compared to rifle kills.
Not sure what average is, sometimes I have a good day, sometimes not so good lol
I unlocked the 600gr arrows and gave them a go in my last hunt. I definately need to practice on the range, as I just kept missing hehe But when I have hit home, none of the animal last long.
I'm looking forward to unlocking the recover arrows perk, although from what I've heard from guys who hunt with bows, they tend not to use the same arrow again, but I definately like the idea. I haven't unlocked the pumping iron perk yet, bout half way through unlocking the archery perks. Only just unlocked the perk that lowers that arrows offset. I filled the rifle perks, but now using the bow all the time lol

I really like how the devs have implemented the bows. The bows are the most fun and satisfying weapon to use for me right now. I found the wobble perk had really helped with hitting home, and the power, distance and accuracy of the Hawk Edge has made it my main weapon too.

I'd really like to see the archery weapon group expanded and looked at. There's so much you can do to even primative bow and arrows. Grain and design of the blunt (point), fletching can be alterered too. Bow string silencers. In real life you need to match the arrows to the archery, otherwise the arrows won't fly right, need to have the correct length, diameter and tip weight of the arrow that matches the size and arm length of the archer.
Some guys put strips of tape above there holding hand to mark key distances. Plus you got the different material all the components are made of. And that's just traditional bows, recurves, compounds, and that hybrid the add on end getting endless.

If they brought out the crossbows, would you swap over from the bows?

[Leadmagnet]

That is a really nice bow. It isn't cheap on this side of the pond either but would be a good investment if you knew you were going to get a lot of use out of it.

I know what you mean about getting more satifaction from a bow kill than a rifle kill. It tests your abilities to stalk and get in close where you know you can make the shot. The wobble perk is a blessing for sure. I just got level 2 of the recover arrows so they don't break as often and you can recover more arrows. I figure it will make things a little cheaper in the long run, especially on the 600gr arrows.

I would like to see archery expand and bring in more types of bows like the recurve and traditional. String silencers and even stabilizers would be nice as well so you could get more out of the existing bows. One of the things I'd love to see get added is the illuminated arrow nocks. It would be so nice to have feedback as to where the arrow went on a hit or miss.

I would carry the crossbow instead of the rifle as my secondary weapon. The crossbow would give a more accurate way to take animals at longer ranges than I am currently at with the bow. It would also let me do it quieter and not scare everything away like the pistol or rifle.

[Kaned Dragon]

Originally posted by Leadmagnet:

That is a really nice bow. It isn't cheap on this side of the pond either but would be a good investment if you knew you were going to get a lot of use out of it.

I know what you mean about getting more satifaction from a bow kill than a rifle kill. It tests your abilities to stalk and get in close where you know you can make the shot. The wobble perk is a blessing for sure. I just got level 2 of the recover arrows so they don't break as often and you can recover more arrows. I figure it will make things a little cheaper in the long run, especially on the 600gr arrows.

I would like to see archery expand and bring in more types of bows like the recurve and traditional. String silencers and even stabilizers would be nice as well so you could get more out of the existing bows. One of the things I'd love to see get added is the illuminated arrow nocks. It would be so nice to have feedback as to where the arrow went on a hit or miss.

I would carry the crossbow instead of the rifle as my secondary weapon. The crossbow would give a more accurate way to take animals at longer ranges than I am currently at with the bow. It would also let me do it quieter and not scare everything away like the pistol or rifle.

I did some checking. It's a lever-action bow. Would like to see it added for sure, get to play with things that I can't in real life.

Yeah, the illuminated knocks, reminds me of the cupid arrows from classic. They were so good. Being able to tell if you hit the animal. Would like to see those back.

Hand Guns get zero'd between 25 to 75 meters. Not sure what the shotguns do. The lever action rifles are something like 50 meters to 150. I think the lever actions get zero'd to a max of 175yrds. But then you jump to the bolt action rilfes that go from 75 to 300 meters.
If they made a crossbow that could do 100 150 yard shots, with only limited sound and didn’t spook the animals.
Be nice to have that option of something that sits around the 60 to 150 meter mark.

Back when I played classic, I moved over to the tenpoint crossbow because you couldn’t go prone, while holding the bow. But you could with crossbows.
Don’t know how many turkeys I tried to get, only to have them get spooked and run away when I got up and loaded the bow only to have them run away before I even loaded an arrow.
We don’t have that problem with COTW, so I’ll likely stay with bows, but if the crossbows had that benefit of really good long distance shots, it might balance them enough to get used by more players.
I think you can take really long shots with bows 150 and more meters, but you can only aim up a certain amount. Then the characters hand or the blurry edges make gauging the target impossible. I tried to take some ludicrous shots with the primitive bow in classic on the range, I ended up aiming under the grab hand. Never hit the target haha.Crossbows have scopes, and that could be what makes the difference.
I saw a vid of a guy taking a 200yrd crossbow shoot using a scope.
But if the scope can be zero’d to 100 150 meters or so.

Here are some links to some crazy Crossbows, not sure if it would be too much though.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5nVSfv0Rlg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xo55U3SiFKQ
Would be nice to have the choice.

[Monke]

Originally posted by Leadmagnet:

That is a really nice bow. It isn't cheap on this side of the pond either but would be a good investment if you knew you were going to get a lot of use out of it.

I know what you mean about getting more satifaction from a bow kill than a rifle kill. It tests your abilities to stalk and get in close where you know you can make the shot. The wobble perk is a blessing for sure. I just got level 2 of the recover arrows so they don't break as often and you can recover more arrows. I figure it will make things a little cheaper in the long run, especially on the 600gr arrows.

I would like to see archery expand and bring in more types of bows like the recurve and traditional. String silencers and even stabilizers would be nice as well so you could get more out of the existing bows. One of the things I'd love to see get added is the illuminated arrow nocks. It would be so nice to have feedback as to where the arrow went on a hit or miss.

I would carry the crossbow instead of the rifle as my secondary weapon. The crossbow would give a more accurate way to take animals at longer ranges than I am currently at with the bow. It would also let me do it quieter and not scare everything away like the pistol or rifle.

+1 to crossbows and recurves!

I also thought to mention for your consideration - the arrow recovery/probability perk sucks up two perk points as mentioned. One thing you don't run out of in this game is money, esp once you've unlocked all the weapons, etc. But by then you'll have the cash to re-tweek your perk/skill points a few times! :) I did and found better homes for those points - all from my perspective, of course. I respect what you like. There are however, perks in other categories which benefit all weapons, including the bow which may/not give you more benefit (to you/bow) depending on what you like/style of hunting etc - eg Handguns/Ranger perk is v good at short ranges (0-30m) for refining your range estimate (targets move!) and precision bow-work.

[Monke]

Originally posted by Leadmagnet:

....
I do think that Chaon is right about most people building up the biggest cannon they can for a rifle and skipping all of the mid-level rifles. About the only ones that would get the mid-level rifles are those interested in getting the highest possible score for an animal.

Yes but money at higher levels will be less of a concern and I suspect people would buy (some of) them anyway just to decorate! I would be one of them, however I am already "those interested in getting the highest possible score for an animal" ;)

Originally posted by Leadmagnet:

Ideally, I'd like to see it as a choose your caliber and looks and style of the stock (classic Monte Carlo walnut or a composite thumbhole, etc). I'd also like to see it where you could choose single shot or the normal number of rounds the rifle carries depending on the caliber. No high capacity magazines, just what you would find on your average hunting rifle. I'd like to be able to choose the reticle in my scope and have more control over the ammunition than just poly tip or soft point.

+9

[Leadmagnet]

Originally posted by Scythe:

+1 to crossbows and recurves!

I also thought to mention for your consideration - the arrow recovery/probability perk sucks up two perk points as mentioned. One thing you don't run out of in this game is money, esp once you've unlocked all the weapons, etc. But by then you'll have the cash to re-tweek your perk/skill points a few times! :) I did and found better homes for those points - all from my perspective, of course. I respect what you like. There are however, perks in other categories which benefit all weapons, including the bow which may/not give you more benefit (to you/bow) depending on what you like/style of hunting etc - eg Handguns/Ranger perk is v good at short ranges (0-30m) for refining your range estimate (targets move!) and precision bow-work.

I was wondering of the pistol/ranger perk worked with bow sights. Appreciate the heads up and I will have to start saving money for the perk swap. I've probably bought all the stuff I'm going to unless there are some suprise missions where you need a specific weapon. At the time I spent those two points, I was actually running the Hawk Edge with 420gr arrows as a primary and the Bear Claw with 300gr arrows for foxes as my secondary weapon.