Where are the bull elks?

[res052cd]

I have been spending lots of time hunting on SRP. A fav spot is twin fawns (NE corner) because of how open it is and there is a big variety of wildlife. When I first starting hunting there I would see bull elk in the open areas feeding and harvested a few level 3's to see if i could get a bigger respawn. Later on i went on a grind on another area of the map and when i came back there are no bulls to be seen, even if i call. I just set up a tripod at the lake and there were like 20+ female elk drinking, but no bulls to be found. There is no hunting pressure and it's like the 4 bulls I harvested early on were the only ones and never respawned. Any ideas?

[DarkFalz]

It could be that your respawns jumped to different herds or even formed a new herd somewhere else on the map. This has happened to me a few times on my moose grind. I had a drinking zone that was consistently giving me two bull moose to shoot every time but eventually. their respawns just randomly jumped to a different part of the map and I now only have one cow moose in that drinking zone.

[Geronimo]

You can't judge pressure in an area by those purple/pink spots alone. It actually takes some passage of in-game time before the area recovers.

How long is a topic of debate.

To decide for yourself, if you don't mind spending the cash, try time travelling ahead while observing how long it takes before the larger animals return. But you can't do any hunting there while you do that.

[Findus]

Originally posted by Geronimo:

You can't judge pressure in an area by those purple/pink spots alone. It actually takes some passage of in-game time before the area recovers.

Until I see repeatable evidence to the contrary (that I'd happily accept), I maintain that everything points towards the hunting pressure circles being an exact representation of the hunting pressure on the map and them not being affected by the passage of time (at least not in any measurable time frame that would be useful to players).

We know that respaws can be held back at times, so forwarding the time can't hurt, but so far it doesn't seem to be connected to hunting pressure. Animals regularly do respawn in areas with hunting pressure (at least "choose" areas with need zones in HP circles) and any fluctuation can be assumed to be random.

The most likely explanation has already been given by DarkFalz, in my opinion.
If something is sufficiently explained with a known, testable mechanism, then it doesn't make sense to replace it with hunches about secret game mechanics that are presented as fact without being put to a proper test (assuming this is following the known pattern).
It's not just how long it takes that's a topic of debate, the whole thing is questionable.
And for me, a serious debate would require evidence. As it is, this is not a "he said, she said" situation. One side of the argument is supported by repeatable evidence, the other isn't (and we've been here before with several topics).


I'd go looking at other lakes in the vicinity first as my assumption is that kills do not respawn all over the map, but I haven't tested that.

Another possibility would be to wait longer at lakes if you haven't done that yet. Different herds and solitary animals can arrive at different times at their need zones, sometimes only leaving minutes before they leave again.
I'm not very familiar with SRP, but you could also check if there are mountain lions in the area that might block some routes.

Lastly you could check if there were any updates between when you saw the bulls and now that might have messed with the population. The last change I read about was bears getting different drink times and the existing population being not affected this time round, but who knows.

[res052cd]

Thanks for the replies. While i like the unpredictability of not knowing when i will find a certain animal i am looking for at times, I just find it odd that there were at least 3 bulls that i never harvested, but now they don't come around any longer it seems. Also of all the places i find elk on the map, this has by far the largest cow elk population I have seen yet.

Funny, after I posted this i finally saw a level 5 elk with diamond potential at a lake just south of this one with no bulls, so that is my mission tonight, LOL

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by res052cd:

Thanks for the replies. While i like the unpredictability of not knowing when i will find a certain animal i am looking for at times, I just find it odd that there were at least 3 bulls that i never harvested, but now they don't come around any longer it seems. Also of all the places i find elk on the map, this has by far the largest cow elk population I have seen yet.

Funny, after I posted this i finally saw a level 5 elk with diamond potential at a lake just south of this one with no bulls, so that is my mission tonight, LOL

Did u get that lvl 5????

Elk are one of the species that will have males congregating in small bachelor groups, and will have larger groups of only females.

And regarding the higher level animals, these can be spawned into your map each time it is loaded, and will often be spawned in isolation from others of its species, wandering alone like rogues in hard to reach parts of the map.

Higher levels are more often encountered as a result of the spawning mechanics which replace harvested animals. But be aware that respawns are taken from a reserve pool queue and do not necessarily identically replace an animal in the immediate area it was harvested.

Animals you may see appearing to respawn in the same area you just took one are added from that reserve pool, just to maintain the population capacity, so not necessarily the one that will eventually replace the level and species of your last harvest

So these bulls you're seeing are not necessarily the result of hunting pressure or replacement, and encountering higher levels afterwards could just involve previously spawned animals unrelated to any recent replacing of harvests

[res052cd]

Originally posted by Geronimo:

And regarding the higher level animals, these can be spawned into your map each time it is loaded, and will often be spawned in isolation from others of its species, wandering alone like rogues in hard to reach parts of the map.

I have noticed this quite a bit and of the 6 diamonds i have, 4 were found like that (turkey, bison, mountain lion and grizzly). The grizzly walked up on me while i was under a tree waiting for a caribou, scared the crap out of both of us.

Yeah, i harvested that level 5 in two nights, but he was only gold, but impressive even though he wasn't a diamond. So is there any benefit to culling the cows in hopes that bulls might respawn? I was in a tree stand last night and had like 18 cows wander by but no bulls, but there were bull tracks when i set up the stand

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by res052cd:

Originally posted by Geronimo:

And regarding the higher level animals, these can be spawned into your map each time it is loaded, and will often be spawned in isolation from others of its species, wandering alone like rogues in hard to reach parts of the map.

I have noticed this quite a bit and of the 6 diamonds i have, 4 were found like that (turkey, bison, mountain lion and grizzly). The grizzly walked up on me while i was under a tree waiting for a caribou, scared the crap out of both of us.

Yeah, i harvested that level 5 in two nights, but he was only gold, but impressive even though he wasn't a diamond. So is there any benefit to culling the cows in hopes that bulls might respawn? I was in a tree stand last night and had like 18 cows wander by but no bulls, but there were bull tracks when i set up the stand

According to Devs, no!

Animals are replaced according to gender harvested.

There has been discussion around whether harvesting does, when there is an obvious lack of males, as a sort of herd management. But that would be in contradiction to the already acknowledged fact that killing does would only result in does being replaced by does.

What's really missing in the discussion is why our maps run into these periods where the males seem to just disappear from the environment in the first place, IF they are being replaced everytime they are harvested.

This immediately suggests that the replacing of the animals we harvest is NOT immediate.

Which is what the player will observe when they have taken alot of males in a short period of time. Under such circumstances the only thing that will begin to produce animals again is the passage of in-game time, or the advancing of it using the 'rest' option. There is some debate over how much time must pass, which ranges from 4-6 days, but i think that the degree of hunting pressure also plays a part in animals returning to numbers of pre-pressured normals.

Some, for some unknown reason, will argue that hunting pressure has no affect on anything except Need Zone deletion, but that is getting off topic.

Let's stick to the obvious where there is no doubt that players who kill large numbers of animals will find that there maps will suddenly become lacking. And the reason for this is obviously the result of animals being replenished from a reserve pool and not immediately in keeping with the amount harvested at one time.

There is a file which many use to monitor this give and take operation of the AI, and it clearly shows the numbers without doubt. And, based on the file's accounting, you can easily see that harvests do not equal repopulations.

So it makes sense that at some point, this delay in repopulation of harvests is going to result in a building decrease of a gender that is being harvested faster than it can be replaced.

And given that more males are hunted, than it is certainly going to culminate at some point in a lack of males for a certain period of time. Compound that with the grinding that EW incites in order to spawn the higher level animals and you can see how this 'period of lacking' can vary from player to player.

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by res052cd:

Originally posted by Geronimo:

And regarding the higher level animals, these can be spawned into your map each time it is loaded, and will often be spawned in isolation from others of its species, wandering alone like rogues in hard to reach parts of the map.

I have noticed this quite a bit and of the 6 diamonds i have, 4 were found like that (turkey, bison, mountain lion and grizzly). The grizzly walked up on me while i was under a tree waiting for a caribou, scared the crap out of both of us.

Yeah, i harvested that level 5 in two nights, but he was only gold, but impressive even though he wasn't a diamond. So is there any benefit to culling the cows in hopes that bulls might respawn? I was in a tree stand last night and had like 18 cows wander by but no bulls, but there were bull tracks when i set up the stand

Well, males that are higher level can often tend to remain out of sight, so that makes sense, right? Glad to hear u got your bull. Personally I don't focus on my overall harvest score as much as most players. I will probably never see a 'Great One' because I just don't grind enough. I might encounter one that has naturally spawned on my map, and I watch for such patiently. But it's not a matter of end-game mentality for me. It's just a matter of always being cautiously aware/prepared for what I know could be a great trophy at any time, behind the next bush, sauntering down the trail I'm setup on, coming in to my luring efforts, or in that next field.

That is the thrill of the hunt for me, in which I am always excitedly anticipating, I wouldn't be able to enjoy the trophies I take if I was constantly grinding them. When I spot a trophy I'll consider how I might get a good score, or how to get the most cash from it, but that scoring potential doesn't change whether or not the animal is of trophy quality. It's still the same animal regardless of my score.

There have been lots of times, after a long tracking session, where I chose to make sure I got the animal I spent so much effort on by using a caliber higher than its class. It might not become a diamond score, but that great rack still looks great in my lodge.