Be careful if you use the 300WM for a kill. It is glitched, it will rarely kill. :: theHunter: Call of the Wild™ General Discussions

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jsauerii

Dec 31, 2023 @ 1:55am

Be careful if you use the 300WM for a kill. It is glitched, it will rarely kill.

I just lost a diamond Cape Buffalo because the 300 Canning Magnum cannot penetrate the hide of a cow. I had been carrying a 7MM but swapped my 300 WM to run around with a full spectrum gun set that kept me under 20 lbs. I would have had more penetration from a daisy BB gun. I had read they had messed up more guns but not this one. They have already got reality vs guns and ammo in the trash can.

Last edited by jsauerii; Jan 9, 2024 @ 8:09am

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Showing 1-15 of 25 comments

Carstein83 has theHunter: Call of the Wild™

Dec 31, 2023 @ 4:08am

The .300 is a good weapon. Buffalos are the toughest animals in the game, I guess the shot was not placed well. If you hit the legs from 300 meters, the bullet will probably not go through to the lungs. Aim better.

Last edited by Carstein83; Dec 31, 2023 @ 4:09am

Woodyplank has theHunter: Call of the Wild™

Dec 31, 2023 @ 5:25am

This is a game, not real life so comparing penetration in this game to what one "thinks" the same shot would have done in RL is pointless. Part of this games challenge is learning how to use a weapon based upon what it can do as opposed to what you want it to do.

Center chest shot on an animal facing towards you is a no go for most species larger than a duck. POA for a heart shot on most animals facing towards you is 1-1.5 inches above the bottom of the chest. Hit any higher and you'll probably only hit bone, gristle and muscle. Aim instead for the crease where the shoulder meets the chest. Even at 250 meters this can be a kill shot.

Broadside shots can be effective on any class 8 or 9 animal in this game if you are within 200 meters and perpendicular to the animal. The more you deviate from that 90 degree angle the lower your chance is of penetrating into a vital organ. Also, the old, "aim for the top of the shoulder" thing will not serve you well in this game. Hit heart, lung or liver to pass the harvest check. Hitting the head, spine or shoulder of a Cape Buff is most unwise.

If the animal does not die from your shot there is a high probability it will be back in the same area at approx the same time within 3 game days of the day you wounded it. Sometimes it'll even be in the exact same spot.

btw: When it comes to Cape Buffalo, there are way more 9-Legendary animals that are not diamonds than those that will be. The ratio for me has been about 3-5 trolls per diamond.

My longest recent one shot kill on a Cape Buff using the .300 WM was a bit over 300 meters taken broadside. If I can do, so can you.

Last edited by Woodyplank; Dec 31, 2023 @ 5:28am

DarkFalz

Dec 31, 2023 @ 8:03am

You may have aimed too high. From what I’ve seen, it’s very difficult to get into the lungs on a Cape buffalo if you aim high on the body even with the 300. I always aim for the lower portion of the lungs and never have any issues even from long distance.

Hidden Gunman has theHunter: Call of the Wild™

Jan 1, 2024 @ 12:56am

Any round in real life, with a .3 at the start of the calibre, is not advised on cape buffalo.

yogisgoat

Jan 1, 2024 @ 1:24pm

Listen to Woodyplank. This a game, not real and it has it's share of odd behavior. I've had the .470 fail to penetrate the hide of a buffalo at 30m but I've also dropped one in his tracks at 150m with the .45-70. You just gotta roll with it.

Jwilly

Jan 1, 2024 @ 1:49pm

What angle did you shoot it from?

The Eagle

Jan 1, 2024 @ 2:25pm

I use the 300 for bison and the Buffalo group. It works good for me and ya I done high shots were it didn't drop on the 1st one but the next one usually does it and if not then the 3rd one will.

VictoriaHuntress has theHunter: Call of the Wild™

Jan 1, 2024 @ 5:56pm

I've taken bison and buffalo with the 7mm, the 300 Canning Magnum, and the 338 Magnums. You need to remember that these have an effective range of 150m, which means they retain enough energy at 150m to have a high probability of a one-shot kill with good expansion/penetration for a class 9 animal. That doesn't necessarily mean an instant kill, but with proper shot placement (a broadside presentation to ensure the bullet has the least amount of tissue to traverse to get to a vital organ) they will go down.

The short answer is to stay well within the effective range of the ammunition when targeting an animal with the ammunition's maximum class rating, and only take broadside shots.

The long, more complex answer:

- we'll consider just rifles in this discussion.

From my observations and gameplay experience:

1. The cartridge class range and effective (shooting) range: this is about retained energy and momentum retained by the bullet at that distance - the bullet retains enough to be effective on the Maximum animal class, that is, it will have enough for a high probability of a one-shot kill (assuming ideal shot placement) for an animal in that size range.

2. The target animal's actual weight factors in - the bigger they are, the harder it is to make them fall. Reason: the bullet has more tissue to pass through to reach a vital organ. Generally, lower class animals fall into a lower weight range than the higher class animals.

3. if the shot is not perfectly broadside, but the animal is in a quartering presentation, the bullet will have more tissue to traverse to reach a vital organ, generally speaking.
So if a perfect broadside shot would have resulted in a double-lung trajectory, a quartering shot might only reach a single lung.

From these it follows that:
a. The effective range for a smaller class target increases beyond the stated effective range, since it should require less energy and momentum to be effective on a smaller animal
b. At ranges less than the stated effective range, the bullet has retained more energy and momentum, and thus should be more effective on the larger Max Class target animals.
c. The ammunition should be more effective on a lower weight animal than a larger weight animal of the same class. at a given range.

It's fair to say that the ammunition choices rated for a given class range are not created equal:

a. some cartridges can only produce enough muzzle energy and momentum to retain just enough to be effective on the lowest weight ranges of the Maximum Class animal, whereas others will be effective on the Maximum Weight Maximum class animals.

b. The ballistics of each bullet comes into play - the more aerodynamically efficient a bullet is (the Ballistics Coefficient), the more energy/momentum it will retain over the downrange distance, so two different cartridge/rifle combinations won't have the same retained energy/momentum at the same effective range. One might be just barely enough to do the job, whereas the other is practically overkill.

I suspect that the recoil rating of the firearm can be used for a qualitative comparison here, as recoil energy and momentum (of the rifle) is directly related to the momentum of the bullet(+propellant gases) at the muzzle. Thus, the higher the recoil value, the more muzzle KE and momentum the bullet will have.

I also think the extent of the ammunition's target class range (Max-Min+1) plays a part. The larger this extent, the less effective the bullet will be for the Max class animal.

As for the bullet expansion and penetration ratings, I'm guessing that the numbers represent percentages: expansion means the bullet expands to form a wound channel that is E% greater than the bullet diameter, and that the penetration means that the bullet will traverse up to P% of the body size of a maximum class animal (again, pro-rated for weight and target animal class).

Obviously the game has a terminal ballistics (damage) algorithm that takes into account these factors, the animal's anatomy and the bullet trajectory to determine the possible outcomes
a. instant kill: 100% Quick Kill bonus - (heart or cervical spine, for example)
b. delayed kill: 0 <= Quick Kill Bonus <= 100% and bleed rate (Very High, High, Medium, Low, Very Low}, the time it would take the animal to expire, and how far it could run.
c. Animal Survives the shot, with a final % health remaining.

I've found it to be a reasonable guide to understanding how to compare rifle/ammunition categories, and to make decisions about the likely outcome of an ideal shot at a target animal of a given class/weight, at a given range to target.

Since Woodyplank has already provided some concrete numbers, I won't add my own details unless y'all would like to know the data on which these guidelines are based (yes, that's how it's said LOL).

Unfortunately, since we know nothing of the actual ballistics (exterior and terminal) for our rifles and ammunition, nor do we know how the game decides what energy and momentum range is required for each animal class (and species), so the best we can do is to make qualitative estimates of shot outcomes

Last edited by VictoriaHuntress; Jan 4, 2024 @ 8:14am

jsauerii

Jan 4, 2024 @ 5:06pm

For those asking distance, angle and shot point. I had three capes buffalo in a row that had the same problem. On the diamond one of the two shots was to attempt to get the double lung shot mission at the same time. I only had the 300WM, I had forgotten to bring the 454 pistol that the same shot dropped another mythical gold instantly. (True Sarcasm) I shot it directly into the rib cage at 14 yards (Yes 14 yards) at nearly an 80 to 90 degree angle shot and it barely touched the lung. The other shot was at more of an angle. Each had a shot at close range into the ribs and another that either came in under the rib cage from behind or tried a direct heart shot etc. The 7MM got plenty of penetration, the 300 out of numerous various shots only had that one shot that got past the hide and graphically showed it barely touched the lung. Every shot literally stops in the hide with the 300 WM

VictoriaHuntress has theHunter: Call of the Wild™

Jan 5, 2024 @ 8:27am

Originally posted by jsauerii:
For those asking distance, angle and shot point. I had three capes buffalo in a row that had the same problem. On the diamond one of the two shots was to attempt to get the double lung shot mission at the same time. I only had the 300WM, I had forgotten to bring the 454 pistol that the same shot dropped another mythical gold instantly. (True Sarcasm) I shot it directly into the rib cage at 14 yards (Yes 14 yards) at nearly an 80 to 90 degree angle shot and it barely touched the lung. The other shot was at more of an angle. Each had a shot at close range into the ribs and another that either came in under the rib cage from behind or tried a direct heart shot etc. The 7MM got plenty of penetration, the 300 out of numerous various shots only had that one shot that got past the hide and graphically showed it barely touched the lung. Every shot literally stops in the hide with the 300 WM

1. Most likely problem: Did you use the 300 Magnum Polymer Tip or the Soft Point ammunition?

2. Possible problem (although based on your description, it might not be a factor): At such a close range, what rifle sights did you use? Scope, reflex, red dot, or iron sights?

Last edited by VictoriaHuntress; Jan 5, 2024 @ 9:34am

#10

jsauerii

Jan 6, 2024 @ 7:41am

Poly topped, I wont use hollow points for most needs. I don't own a single round of HP 300WM

Scope or sight type or lack of has nothing whatsoever to do with penetration. not to mention its the same result at all distances that it happens. I am basing penetration off of the xray view but since it verifies with it only once having actually shown a lung hit though the xray showed it barely made it against that lung.

Originally posted by VictoriaHuntress:
1. Most likely problem: Did you use the 300 Magnum Polymer Tip or the Soft Point ammunition?

2. Possible problem (although based on your description, it might not be a factor): At such a close range, what rifle sights did you use? Scope, reflex, red dot, or iron sights?

#11

VictoriaHuntress has theHunter: Call of the Wild™

Jan 6, 2024 @ 9:28am

Originally posted by jsauerii:
Poly topped, I wont use hollow points for most needs. I don't own a single round of HP 300WM

Scope or sight type or lack of has nothing whatsoever to do with penetration. not to mention its the same result at all distances that it happens. I am basing penetration off of the xray view but since it verifies with it only once having actually shown a lung hit though the xray showed it barely made it against that lung.

The questions that I asked are about common mistakes that players tend to make, so I just wanted to rule them out.

My comment about the sights at close range has to do with the fact that the scope's optical axis (line of sight) is above the barrel's longitudinal bore axis - this means that the bullet trajectory always starts off below the line of sight. At very close ranges, the bullet would impact the target below your aim point, and would mess up the shot.
I always detach my scope if I'm that close to avoid this error. You may think you are aiming for a lung, but the actual trajectory might miss. That's why I said this was probably not a factor, based on your #9 post details.

So, we've eliminated the possibility of a mistake on your part.

Well, I don't know what to say, then. As I've said, I routinely use the 300 Canning for class 7-9 animals with good effect. I haven't used it on Bison and Buffalo since the last update, so perhaps something has changed. I have been using it on Moose and Elk lately (both class 8), taking them down at distances up to 400m.
I'd expect that the 300 Canning would still be capable of one-shot kills on class 9 species out to perhaps 200m, and potentially quick kills at less than 150m.

I don't really expect double-lung shots on these big animals anyway (at almost any range, since the penetration of the 300 Poly is 42), although it does happen on occasion.

Now, a Diamond trophy animal will be in the maximum weight range for its species. If you are using the recommended ammunition for a target animal of the ammunition's Max Class rating, you are pushing the upper limit of the damage model. If, in addition, you are shooting at distances beyond the ammunition's effective range(Max Class), you are also decreasing the probability of an instant kill even more. In these cases, the damage model will be very unforgiving of non-broadside shots.

I'll bet that if you shoot and kill a Minimum Weight range buffalo (level 1 or 2) with the 300 Canning at distances <= 150m, you'll see a higher number of kills with Quick Kill Bonus values > 50%, and reaching the ammunition's full penetration rating.

Woodyplank said it best in his post:

This is a game, not real life so comparing penetration in this game to what one "thinks" the same shot would have done in RL is pointless. Part of this games challenge is learning how to use a weapon based upon what it can do as opposed to what you want it to do.

Last edited by VictoriaHuntress; Jan 6, 2024 @ 12:29pm

#12

DarkFalz

Jan 6, 2024 @ 10:49pm

#13

jsauerii

Jan 7, 2024 @ 12:54am

For what its worth I have been shooting for 50 years, Have sold or traded about 10 guns for each one I still own, and I still own more weapons than the years I have lived. I reload etc so I have all that understanding down better than most. I have dabbled in game programming over the years as well and have a pretty good understanding of what can and cannot be done in a game.

I posted to hopefully just keep others from losing a diamond as well. While its a game they could bring up the accuracy quite a bit and should considering the effort they put into the detail of the aligning of the pixels we shoot in this game. I will go out and shoot some other stuff with the 300 to see if its maybe a specific animal related issue. To be fair the .338 is way outta line in regards to distance and knockdown as well. It just seems there could be some tuning done to make things a whole lot better as well. I want to extend my maximum range shots in this game but I think since I am hitting at nearly the rendering range already i might be at the max range. :)

I did manage to get another diamond cape buffalo a bit ago though. Was creeping up on a legendary 9 and time for the zone ran out and it moved. A hard 7 charged me so I dropped it with the 470 and that brought the 9 after me from where ever it went to hide. It hooked me while I was caught in the reload lag so I had to try to get in while circling me with a 470 hip shot. The bullet went between its scalp and the horn so close it shaved the dust off both without damaging the trophy head. Pure luck and magic :) Made up for the other loss. Have pulled 3 various diamonds today so its all good. I would like to see the ballistics fixed up though, I think it would be a good thing for the game, that and the hunting of rare animals and actually fixing the new bugs the introduce each xpac could really breathe some new life in this game.

Originally posted by VictoriaHuntress:
The questions that I asked are about common mistakes that players tend to make, so I just wanted to rule them out.

#14

VictoriaHuntress has theHunter: Call of the Wild™

Jan 7, 2024 @ 3:23pm

Originally posted by DarkFalz:
I did a bit of testing on this just to see how everything compares with the class 9 guns. I did tests with both broadside lung shots and frontal heart shots on cape buffalo. I tried to keep this as consistent as I could but funnily enough, the cape buffalo weren't too interested in cooperating with me. So in most cases, I just had to take whatever shots I could get and here's what I found:

.300 magnum broadside lung shot from 255 yards:

.45-70 frontal heart shot 136 yards:

7mm frontal heart shot from 86 yards:

Aside from the 454, I don't actually see a major difference between any of them and I think it's safe to say that the x-ray view isn't always 100% accurate. The bottom line here is that cape buffalo are just built like tanks and are gonna be difficult for most of the class 9 weapons.

Difficult, but not impossible.

So, your tests lead to the conclusion that the weapons rated for class 9 species are, in fact, capable of killing a class 9 animal when used properly, that is, within the parameters of the game. This is contrary to the OP's claim. Even the OP should concede that he was able to kill Cape Buffalo with the 300 Canning. I think the OP has made the mistake of implicitly assuming that the weapons in the game should behave exactly as their IRL counterparts, as Woodyplank has so clearly stated.

Last edited by VictoriaHuntress; Jan 7, 2024 @ 4:21pm

#15

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theHunter: Call of the Wild™ > General Discussions > Topic Details

Date Posted: Dec 31, 2023 @ 1:55am

Posts: 25

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